TBI conversion web page

[EagleMark]

I've been wanting to make some web pages to go along with the BCC find page. Anyone with a writeup or ideas and information is welcome. One that is going to go in there as well as the forum is JeepsandGuns EFI tuning dictionary project.

I started one for TBI conversions awhile ago, actually had a complete one about 10 years ago... and got it to presentable today and wondering what you guys think?
It has links to 1project2many BCC find with the ECM part.
A link to gregs78cam in tank fuel pump write up with the fuel pump part.
A link to the Hybrid distributor I wrote up.
A link to reworking a stock harness conversion thread I started on the old forum.

Probably can find more but right now I've worked on it all day and going blind... it's a how to with links to everything, everyone has contributed here so take a look and give some ideas!

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gm-ecm-pcm-conversion/tbi-efi-conversion.html

[PJG1173]

looks great! you have a pic of everything but a chip. It might be helpful for readers to see the different types of chips too.

[EagleMark]

D'oh!

Your right! It needs to be there. :thumbsup:

But I do have another page planned for chips, burners, software stuff that we will have lots of threads here to link to.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Only thing I see, is the distributor. To a noob, it looks like grafting a chevy dist and their stock dist (if they are not using a chevy engine) is the only option. Mabey add to the writeup a link to a thread where it shows converting a non GM distributor to be used with FI, and mounting the ignition module seperate from the dis on a heat sink.

[EagleMark]

Only thing I see, is the distributor. To a noob, it looks like grafting a chevy dist and their stock dist (if they are not using a chevy engine) is the only option. Mabey add to the writeup a link to a thread where it shows converting a non GM distributor to be used with FI, and mounting the ignition module seperate from the dis on a heat sink.I think it says more to come? Or it will. I have the DuraSpark conversion writeup from Custom EFIS handbook printed 1999 to go with it. Old HEI conversion. If there's more ways then the highway we'll do it!

[1project2many]

Looks nice.

What we really need to see is some nice howto's specifically for International EFI swaps. Just because. :innocent2:

[EagleMark]

Well that is done, set in stone and there's no other way to do it.


Looks nice.thanks! I have to do something to populate that side of website because of the sweet BCC Find! :thumbsup:

I'd like this to be a general TBI 101 conversion course for any engine. Then give options and links to work we have already done for specific engines and specific ECM/PCM. Basically an overview with options. This page will constantly be updated with links to other information either on other web pages or back to forum.

It will represent and document everyones work. Again this is a team project so it represents all of us! That is why I am asking here. Ideas and suggestions always welcome.

And for those of you afraid to correct me or debate me in public and send me PMs apologizing and trying to be so polite. Just stop. I can be proven wrong, have been proven wrong and would rather be proven wrong then let mis information float around! :thumbsup: I'm just part of the team, your part of the team! Look at my user title! I'm just an EFI GearHead. Other people are Admins and Super Moderators! :innocent2:

[one92rs]

what about putting different intakes on there or links to them. we all know about the gm intakes. i would just list them. but for other than gm intakes would be cool especially if there is a pic of them.

[EagleMark]

Is there aftermarket TBI intakes made for other than GM cars?

The adapters are there which covers three basic carbs to TBI...

[bmalta]

I'm not sure if this is just meant to be the physical conversion only, but... What would be really helpful would be a comprehensive document that lists all the tuneable parameters in a particular .bin (such as scalars, flags and tables) listed by address location as well as generic name, with as complete a description as can be made. This would essentially be a document form of all the comments in an .xdf/.ecu file. Lsting by address will allow it to be generic across all platforms and definition files. As a beginning tuner this would be an INVALUABLE resource. At the moment this info is scattered all over the internet and in some cases has been contradictory....

[1project2many]

Interesting idea. For beginners it might make sense to have a list of basic tuning parameters common to all platforms but as you get deeper into the calibrations there are a lot of variables and tables that are mask specific so those might not translate well. With all the web sites explaining how to tune, are the descriptions really necessary to the list? Is it going to be helpful to explain the purpose of main spark advance table or the main VE and idle VE table? Especially if there is no supporting "how to tune" documentation handy?

[EagleMark]

Actually this thread for this web page is just the beginning and the physical part, I had mentioned above I forgot to add a chip picture but plan to add a programming page with parts, software and equipment, then a tuning page as well. All the work is collaborated from what we do here!

We are working on an EFI dictionary which includes tuner terms so that will be a huge help to beginners. But as mentioned different masks have different x vs. y parameters so you could refer to EFI dictionary for each term to determine how they work in that bin, then comment in the XDF or ADX file.

XDF and ADX files for TunerPro are community developed so it is up to everyone to contribute. I have spent at least 100 hours commenting parameters in $42 and $EE.

93V8S10 has who knows how many hours into the ADX and XDF he has worked on and still has the desire to improve them.

Once the dictionary is done we can work on other XDF and ADX files for commenting how each parameter works or what changes do to effect tune, like do you add here to add fuel or subtract?

Collaborating work and keeping the latest updated files available was one goal of this community. Once a few of the above things mentioned are done I would like to get volunteers to work on each mask XDF and ADX file for latest edition!

We are just now doing a topic of week to gather information on each subject. Maybe down the road we can do Mask ID file of the week too.

[bmalta]

maybe I could pitch it another way: A list of programming how to's stating clearly which parameters to set (by address) to what settings (by hex). For example: setting idle, setting open loop idle, dealing with common idle issues, PE mode, Decel Fuel C/O or enleanment, Better fuel economy, better performance, Hiway Mode, etc. I know there have been posts on all of these on this and many good sites, but put together in one place and a final summary for each rather than picking info out of conversations would be awesome! I have a 7747 w/ $42 mask, this seems to be the most common by far, but yet discussions on even the best sites, with the most helpful folks (Bill at BP, y'all, 3rd gen, IFSJ, etc) can be confusing because sometimes they refer to TunerCats, sometimes TunerPro, and everyone has their own definition files so parameters are called different things. I've seen the same parameter referred to as a "max" value in one .xdf and a min value in another! Yes, 1project2many this could be a "how to tune".

Once upon a time Custom EFI's started a tuning handbook that attempted this. I have an early copy so it's largely incomplete and in most cases refers to parameters by name as per his TunerCats .ecu file....

[88ragtop]

For that type of documentation, might a Wiki be a good solution? I'm not the biggest fan of Wikis, but they do have their place, and used correctly they can be pretty good.

- Frank

[EagleMark]

That would be our job to create such a page...

But we all need to work on this!
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?580-Common-fuel-injection-and-tuning-terms-defined-(beta-version)

[EagleMark]

maybe I could pitch it another way: A list of programming how to's stating clearly which parameters to set (by address) to what settings (by hex). For example: setting idle, setting open loop idle, dealing with common idle issues, PE mode, Decel Fuel C/O or enleanment, Better fuel economy, better performance, Hiway Mode, etc. I know there have been posts on all of these on this and many good sites, but put together in one place and a final summary for each rather than picking info out of conversations would be awesome! I have a 7747 w/ $42 mask, this seems to be the most common by far, but yet discussions on even the best sites, with the most helpful folks (y'all, 3rd gen, IFSJ etc...) can be confusing because sometimes they refer to TunerCats, sometimes TunerPro, and everyone has their own definition files so parameters are called different things. I've seen the same parameter referred to as a "max" value in one .xdf and a min value in another! Yes, 1project2many this could be a "how to tune".

Once upon a time Custom EFI's started a tuning handbook that attempted this. I have an early copy so it's largely incomplete and in most cases refers to parameters by name as per his TunerCats .ecu file....That would never work. First every mask is different so can't say set this address, cause address for this is different in every mask. Next every engine is different so can't say set this to 1 because different engine may need 2. Next tuning programs are different, compare list of items in TunerCat for $42 to TunerPro $42 has at least.... I'll be Conservative and say three time more parameters. OK Had to look. TunerCat $42 has about 125 parameters total. TunerPro $42 has 197 in just scalers! About 307 total!

If you have read Custom EFIS handbook all that information can be carried over to TunerPro or any tuner software program, but your right some of the names could change. In TunerPro you can custimize your files to say what you want. All other software you can not. TunerPro can add comments and notes to each paremeter. All other tuning software you can't. This is a main reason it is so widely used! Plus it's cheaper and will do more cars then any other software. And we have a chance of meeting your goals with it!

I guess to summerize the above would be that's why we call it tuning! Every engine is differant, so it needs to be tuned.

Then there are many mechanical things that need to be correct before you start to data log or tune, some things should be turned off to data log and tune. I did start a write up on this.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?149-Where-do-you-start-when-tuning-a-chip-Update-10-24-2011

So with EFI dictionary in works, starting point for tuning above, we can and will have the next step in a writeup so all things will be in one place. But you'll still have to gain some knowledge to make it work. But I think we can get it all together enough for a beginer to get started.

[JeepsAndGuns]

That would be our job to create such a page...

But we all need to work on this!
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?580-Common-fuel-injection-and-tuning-terms-defined-(beta-version)

Yes, please. I am far from a expert on all this. I need this all proof read and checked for mistakes. Some I need a good defination for, thos are marked with a *. So if you see any mistakes, or can add a defanition, please post it up in the thread so me, mark, or a mod can add it to the post. Also if there is something not on there you think should be, post it up and we will add it to it.

[1project2many]

maybe I could pitch it another way: A list of programming how to's stating clearly which parameters to set (by address) to what settings (by hex). For example: setting idle, setting open loop idle, dealing with common idle issues, PE mode, Decel Fuel C/O or enleanment, Better fuel economy, better performance, Hiway Mode, etc.

That would be an awesome document, mainly because the author would be nearly psychic to pull it off. Example: "How to get better fuel economy"

Ok, so if you've got $42 you can enable highway fuel mode, but you might have to download a patch, and you could enable highway spark, and set your maximum spark to 35 degrees and your AFR to 15.2:1, unless you have an over 4" bore, or unless you have older cylinder heads, or unless you're running a different manifold than me, or unless you're using different compression than me, or unless you're not even running a smallblock Chevy, or unless you are running a smallblock just like mine but it's in a larger or smaller vehicle. Now if you're using $58 there is no highway fuel or spark but you can adjust the lean/rich trigger point and tighten up the PID for closed loop some, but you have to be careful because you don't want to be lean in boost so you might need to change the forced PE values...

Some of what you're asking for might be easily do-able. But a generic answer for many situations imo is strategy based. For example, an idle surge would require a series of tests to eliminate improper spark timing, fuel pressure related issues, faulty sensor feedback, injector related problems, and ignition related problems. Throughout these tests are possibilities to discover a relationship between the particular calibration settings and the engine which are causing or aggravating the surge. There is no single variable or table which is a cause of it.

[bmalta]

<br>
<br>
Then there are many mechanical things that need to be correct before you start to data log or tune, some things should be turned off to data log and tune. I did start a write up on this.<br>
<a href="http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?149-Where-do-you-start-when-tuning-a-chip-Update-10-24-2011" target="_blank">http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?149-Where-do-you-start-when-tuning-a-chip-Update-10-24-2011</a><br>
<br>
So with EFI dictionary in works, starting point for tuning above, we can and will have the next step in a writeup so all things will be in one place. But you'll still have to gain some knowledge to make it work. But I think we can get it all together enough for a beginer to get started.<br>
<br>
The dictionary and the getting started write up are helpful, and Grumpy's tuning tips is excellent, thanks! Yes, I get that such a guide would be mask specific, and maybe I'm being a bit selfish (sorry) but I'd still love to have one for: $42 and maybe $Oe. :)

[EagleMark]

Well I have taken everyones advice, I hope, and updated the page to include a chip picture with comment that programming and software page and tuning page are coming soon!
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gm-ecm-pcm-conversion/tbi-efi-conversion.html

I think I will add to each EFI item or sensor a brief description from the dictionary when that gets done. I'm going to spend spare time (Ha!) helping JeepsandGuns with that for now, then the other pages.

[POZE]

I sent my new speedo cable to this place to have the cable cut and ends put on so I can run an in like VSS . He answered all of my questions like how many pulse per mile for my application. Was happy with service but not cheap. This could be helpful for some one doing an older car that needs VSS.

[dave w]

Now i will ad the link. Da
http://www.speedometersolutions.com/

My AVG Anti-Virus did not like the link above! Everyone be warned!!

dave w

[POZE]

No malicious intent on my part. I have not had any problems with the link. Should I or can I remove the post?

[EagleMark]

You couldn't have known. Daves software picked up all the hidden links in the source code you can not see, links to overseas drug companies etc... so his AVG idenitfied it. But there was no virus or any malishous content that would hurt your PC. If that is a real company then whoever is doing the website is useing it as a Spam link spot.

I deleted the link.