So who still tunes TBI?

[Greasedog]

I've got a group of guys into 88-95 trucks, who want more performance out of them, lots with very mild setups that just want to optimize what they have. I've been sending a bunch of them to this forum. Would be nice to have at least a couple of names of people I could send them to, other than Brian Harris.

[dave w]

I tune using TunerPro RT and a wide band O2 sensor (WBO2). Post a WBO2 data log from TunerPro RT, I'll let you know what I find out. See attached screen shots.

dave w

[brn2bow]

Dave,

How much do you charge to tune?

I have an 87 V20, preparing to swap the engine for an 010 4 bolt main freshly rebuilt. Will be running ported & polished 062 Vortec heads worked for 550 lift springs, Lunati 10120701 (http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1982&gid=287) cam & lifter kit, 1.6 full roller rockers, summit dual plane intake, Hooker longtubes. I'm currently still running the TBI motor and have done the exhaust and ultimate TBI mods. My computer is still stock. Will I need to have any work done to it, to be able to upgrade it? I'm weighing the costs of going carb or staying with TBI.

thanks
Jamie

[dave w]

Dave,

How much do you charge to tune?

I have an 87 V20, preparing to swap the engine for an 010 4 bolt main freshly rebuilt. Will be running ported & polished 062 Vortec heads worked for 550 lift springs, Lunati 10120701 (http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1982&gid=287) cam & lifter kit, 1.6 full roller rockers, summit dual plane intake, Hooker longtubes. I'm currently still running the TBI motor and have done the exhaust and ultimate TBI mods. My computer is still stock. Will I need to have any work done to it, to be able to upgrade it? I'm weighing the costs of going carb or staying with TBI.

thanks
Jamie

Can you post a TunerPro RT data log? I use TunerPro RT data logs to tune with, no data log - no tuning.

dave w

[Greasedog]

Looking for someone who does mail order tuning, or even emailing back and forth. These guys are made aware that if the tuner is not in person, there may be some equipment to purchase.

[tony-baroni]

Hi dave w

Is a WBO2 sensor different than stock from 1995?

What are the advantages of tuning from O2 readings, compared with tuning from the BLM values to get the base VE tables right?

[dave w]

Hi dave w

Is a WBO2 sensor different than stock from 1995?

What are the advantages of tuning from O2 readings, compared with tuning from the BLM values to get the base VE tables right?

Yes a 5 wire WBO2 is different than the stock single wire O2 sensor. The best way to think of a WBO2 is the WBO2 is a measurement tool, similar to an exhaust gas analyzer used in automotive repair facilities. The 1995 computer does not use the WBO2 information to control the BLM's, that the job of the factory single wire O2 sensor.

Tuning with BLM's is an good way of tuning. WBO2 tuning is a better way of tuning, because the 1995 computer "LOCKS IN" the BLM's at 128 during Acceleration Enrichment (AE) and Power Enrichment (PE). The 1995 computer "ASSUMES" the VE table is correct and "ASSUMES" the added fuel programmed for AE and PE are correct for a "BONE STOCK" engine. Who heck needs tuning for a "BONE STOCK" engine?? When the 1995 chip is correctly configured and the exhaust system has a WBO2 sensor (installed as an additional sensor / still using the single wire O2 sensor), the data log can be sorted to find the actual AFR for AE and PE so the the correct amount of fuel can be programmed for a modified engine.:thumbsup:

dave w

[89S10_Project]

Where would you recommend adding the WBO2? As close to the head as possible? I have a 5.7 TBI in my 89 S10, and am gearing up for tuning it.

[tony-baroni]

Thanks for the explanation. I haven't gotten to the AE and PE yet.

How do you 'read' the 2ndary sensor datastream? Are you replacing the entire TBI ECM with something else?

Should I still start with getting the base VE table as best I can for closed loop, under partial throttle?

[dave w]

Thanks for the explanation. I haven't gotten to the AE and PE yet.

How do you 'read' the 2ndary sensor datastream? Are you replacing the entire TBI ECM with something else?

Should I still start with getting the base VE table as best I can for closed loop, under partial throttle?

I posted information on WBO2 tuning here: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?5381-Wide-Band-O2-(WBO2-Tuning)-Spreadsheet

Basically the TBI computer PROM Chip is re-programmed so the 0 - 5 volt output signal from the WBO2 senor can be connected to pin B16 on the 1993 ~ 1995 computer. The re-programmed PROM chip re-purposes the Electronic EGR valve feedback signal to show the AFR's from the WBO2 sensor into the data log.

dave w

[Dewayne_S]

I have been working with a 91 with a 454/4l80 running a 16147060 PCM. I have a LC-1 but have yet to figure out where to connect it to the PCM. I have used the EGR on other PCMs in the past but to get the WB into the PCM but have failed on this one. I have even tried the LC-1 plugin, I get the plugin to work by itself with the.ADX I download off the TunerPro site. I even took time to add everything from the LC-1 ADX to the ADX for the '7060 but couldn't get any part of that to work.
For the most part all of this is way over my head but I keep trying to understand. I do ask for help from time to time and usually end up wishing I hadn't because the answers I get are usually way too advanced for me to understand without asking more questions, well that or sort of response telling me the answers are here if I search.
Anyway, the hardest thing for me has always been combining the WB with the rest of the data.

[dave w]

I have been working with a 91 with a 454/4l80 running a 16147060 PCM. I have a LC-1 but have yet to figure out where to connect it to the PCM. I have used the EGR on other PCMs in the past but to get the WB into the PCM but have failed on this one. I have even tried the LC-1 plugin, I get the plugin to work by itself with the.ADX I download off the TunerPro site. I even took time to add everything from the LC-1 ADX to the ADX for the '7060 but couldn't get any part of that to work.
For the most part all of this is way over my head but I keep trying to understand. I do ask for help from time to time and usually end up wishing I hadn't because the answers I get are usually way too advanced for me to understand without asking more questions, well that or sort of response telling me the answers are here if I search.
Anyway, the hardest thing for me has always been combining the WB with the rest of the data.

I can't explain how to get the LC-1 output into the '7060. Maybe the following information will help? The WBO2 output is a 0 - 5 VDC signal. Sensors like the MAP and TPS are 0 - 5 VDC. Most 93 - 95 PCM's have an unused 0 - 5 VDC Linear EGR input that has been "Hacked" to allow the WBO2 output to show up in the data log. Maybe the '7060 has an "Unused" 0 - 5 VDC that can be connected to the LC-1?



7060
Circuit #
Function


A6
436
EAC Control (7.4L under 8500 GVW)



dave w

[Dewayne_S]

I can't explain how to get the LC-1 output into the '7060. Maybe the following information will help? The WBO2 output is a 0 - 5 VDC signal. Sensors like the MAP and TPS are 0 - 5 VDC. Most 93 - 95 PCM's have an unused 0 - 5 VDC Linear EGR input that has been "Hacked" to allow the WBO2 output to show up in the data log. Maybe the '7060 has an "Unused" 0 - 5 VDC that can be connected to the LC-1?



7060
Circuit #
Function


A6
436
EAC Control (7.4L under 8500 GVW)



dave w

I understand 0-5 volts and even the conversion formula needed in the adx. Where I struggle is finding those unused 0-5VDC pins and then how to find that data in the data stream. I assume all the information is in the source code but thats over my head, at least for now. I spend a few hours a week trying to learn all this but my teacher(myself) horrible.
I looked at A6 in the wiring diagrams but didn't see it as being a 0-5 volt signal input. I'll figure it out, just gonna take time.

Thanks Dave W