WBO2-Tuning Spreadsheet

[dave w]

Attached in the .zip file is a '7427 Excel spreadsheet (Protected) that will allow pasting a .csv file into the spreadsheet to view the WBO2 averages for tuning. The WBO2 data is filtered and sorted, Closed Loop, Near Idle Flag (on / off), AE, and PE. See sample screen shots. After data logging with TunerPro RT, export the data log to a .csv file. To use the spreadsheet your data log must have WBO2 data, instruction included in the .zip file. WBO2 tuning is a must for any modified engine.:thumbsup: dave w

[fastacton]

Thanks Dave! I'll have to try this out soon.

[dave w]

Thanks Dave! I'll have to try this out soon.
Please update me with your thoughts / results after using the spreadsheet.:thumbsup:

dave w

[lionelhutz]

You can use a if(ISERROR(... test to set the cells to "" instead of displaying the div/0 errors. You do have to repeat the formula twice but it makes it much prettier to look at.

The next thing to do is add a count and desired AFR cell and use those to create another table with the amount of error or correction factor.

[dave w]

The cells count table is below the AFR tables.

I'm working on the layout, see attached.

dave w

[lionelhutz]

Not a counts table, a cell with the minimum number of records before you use the average so you don't get a small number of results messing up the data.

You can then use the counts to add another table that shows either percentage error, or lambda which is basically the same thing.

[dave w]

Not a counts table, a cell with the minimum number of records before you use the average so you don't get a small number of results messing up the data.

You can then use the counts to add another table that shows either percentage error, or lambda which is basically the same thing. I've been thinking deviation, minimum, maximum, & range information is available in TunerPro RT? Basically I wanted the spreadsheet cells to align with the VE tables / filter closed loop / near idle / off idle / power enrichment, which is not filtered in TunerPro RT.

dave w

[steveo]

Not a counts table, a cell with the minimum number of records before you use the average so you don't get a small number of results messing up the data.

i agree, without enforcing a minimum cell count, you will end up with erroneous spikes in your data from cells with only one or two records that averaging hasn't been able to smooth out.

you should also provide a percentage against target AFR data, if any is available, people find that really handy.

im not entirely sure how to do this stuff with a spreadsheet. this is the kind of stuff that always drove me towards programmed tools for analysis.

really wish tunerpro had filtering in its history tables.....

[dave w]

I agree, it would be useful to have a minimum cell count as function of the AVERAGEIFS formula. I'm currently looking at the number of records in the table below the AFR Averages table to determine data validity.

The basic near idle formula I started with:
AVERAGEIFS('Insert Datalog'!,'Insert Datalog'!,"=Closed",'Insert Datalog'!,"=On",'Insert Datalog'!,"=Inactive",'Insert Datalog'!,"=Inactive",'Insert Datalog'!,">=XX",'Insert Datalog'!,"<=YY",'Insert Datalog'!,">=XXX",'Insert Datalog'!,"<YYYY")

dave w

[Tbrendal]

What would I have to do to use this with a 7747 ecm?

[dave w]

What would I have to do to use this with a 7747 ecm?
The spreadsheet is for the second generation TBI PCM, 16168625, 16197427, 16156930, & 16196395.

Information to upgrade the 1227747 to the second generation TBI PCM is here: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?173-1227747-to-16197427-Conversion-PCM-Swap-with-Wiring-Pinout-Directions!

dave w

[Tbrendal]

Will a 16197427 out of a S-10 or V-6 application work? Or do I need to get the V-8 one?

[dave w]

Will a 16197427 out of a S-10 or V-6 application work? Or do I need to get the V-8 one?

The basic difference between the V6 16197427 vs. V8 16197427 is the Memcal, the blue thing in the pic below. The Memcal has three functions, PROM Chip, Knock Filter, and Limp Home Mode. If possible, I would try find a 16197427 with a Memcal for the same size engine I am installing the 16197427 PCM to operate.

dave w

[Kitch]

Hi Dave,

I'd like to try and use your Wideband spreadsheet but I'm having a problem. I'm guessing your spreadsheet is designed to take the original "WBO2 AFR" .csv info from the "Data Log" but I'm using an Inovate MTX-L WB AFR gauge hooked up to my Autoprom, while I've managed to set up a history table showing my Wideband AFR's I haven't managed to get that information into the "Data Log" for export to your spreadsheet.
I'm not using the hack where the Wideband O2 sensor output is supplied to the PCM via re-tasked EGR output and I'm guessing that's thats what the Data Log is expecting.
I'm not sure how to get my MTX-L WB AFR outputs into the Data log in the "WBO2 AFR" location so that your spreadsheet can then use the data or is there another way to get the info into your spreadsheet?

[dave w]

I'm not sure how to get my MTX-L WB AFR outputs into the Data log in the "WBO2 AFR" location so that your spreadsheet can then use the data or is there another way to get the info into your spreadsheet?

The use of the Autoprom is not required to get the WBO2 information into the data log. The 0v ~ 5v output from the MTX-L has to be wired directly into the computer, pin B16. See attached screen shot.

The MTX-L will need to be re-programmed for 0v = 10 AFR / 5v = 20 AFR

dave w

[Kitch]

Hi Dave,

So unless I want to disable my EGR there is no other way to use your spreadsheet?

[dave w]

Hi Dave,

So unless I want to disable my EGR there is no other way to use your spreadsheet? Can you post a .csv file with the Autoprom data? I might be able make changes to the spreadsheet allowing the Autoprom WBO2 data.

dave w

[Kitch]

Hi Dave,

That would be great if you could.
I've attached the full .csv file from a logged run, the "MTX-L WB AFR" output is in column "EV".
Hopefully you can successfully unzip the compressed .csv file.

[dave w]

The spreadsheet formulas are set up for the following columns:

Column AJ=Closed (Closed Loop Status) - Open loop data will not be calculated - your Test csv1.csv has all open loop data in Column AK, so even if Column AK data was copy / pasted in Column AJ the spreadsheet would not show data. The spreadsheet filters out open loop data.

Column DT=On (Idle Flag Status) On = Near Idle data ~ Off = Off Idle (the main motivation for the spreadsheet in the first place!)

Column FD=Inactive (Power Enrichment) PE - Active ~ Inactive - The spreadsheet has a separate sheet that will calculate the AFR's when PE is Active.

Column O=Inactive ( Acceleration Enrichment) AE - Active ~ Inactive - The spreadsheet filters out AE active data.

Column HK = AFR Data

You could copy / paste your spreadsheet columns so they will align with the spreadsheet formulas?

dave w

[Kitch]

Hi Dave,

I played around with my data log and moved things around so that the csv file could be copied directly into your spreadsheet without cutting and pasting.
The only manual change I had to make was to change all the AJ "open" loop cells to "closed" to make it work.

On a side note I also managed to break my dashboard slightly, any idea how to add the missing block?

[dave w]

On a side note I also managed to break my dashboard slightly, any idea how to add the missing block?Nice work, figuring out the .csv configuration for the WBO2 spreadsheet!:thumbsup:

Maybe you need to reconfigure a gauge and set a value, using the Acquisition edit menu, see attached pics.

[Kitch]

Yep, you were right.
I'd tried to do it before but I couldn't figure it out (must have been too late at night!), I had another look at it and straight away I could see the segment percentage values. All I had to do was create another gauge and figure out what percentages were needed based on the surrounding segment values and there it was!

[Stokes1114]

Hey Dave, I was wondering if I could get a copy of the WBo2 spreadsheet? I looked through this thread and couldnt find any files. Also, does the spreadsheet allow for WBo2 through the autoprom? or do I have to wire to egr pintle?Thanks in advance

[dave w]

I re-posted the .zip file, look back at post #1 of this thread. ... dave w

[dave w]

You can use a if(ISERROR(... test to set the cells to "" instead of displaying the div/0 errors. You do have to repeat the formula twice but it makes it much prettier to look at.

Updated spreadsheet to make it prettier to look at. see attached

dave w

[dave w]

Pics from using the spreadsheet to "CRUNCH" the data log.

dave w

[Kitch]

Hi Dave,

I'm sure there's an obvious answer but in the first two photos whats up with the values in the in the lower tables, they seem quite a bit different from the values in the upper tables?

[dave w]

Hi Dave,

I'm sure there's an obvious answer but in the first two photos whats up with the values in the in the lower tables, they seem quite a bit different from the values in the upper tables?

The values in the lower tables of the first two photo's are counts of how many records (data points) were recorded in that cell. For example the first photo "Near Idle" had 814 data points at 600 RPM's / 40 Kpa.

dave w

[Chewy1576]

Awesome work on the spreadsheet Dave! I have a few questions - What filters are you using for the averageifs on WBO2 and SA history tables? I copied in a set of data from a log I had to try it out and I'm not seeing any data populating in the history tables? The columns in the Insert Datalog sheet match up. Also for this log, I forced Open Loop and PE is disabled.

[Kitch]

Thanks for the simple answer Dave and nice work with the spreadsheet.

[dave w]

Awesome work on the spreadsheet Dave! I have a few questions - What filters are you using for the averageifs on WBO2 and SA history tables? I copied in a set of data from a log I had to try it out and I'm not seeing any data populating in the history tables? The columns in the Insert Datalog sheet match up. Also for this log, I forced Open Loop and PE is disabled. Can you post your .xdl file? I filter out ALL open loop data. Maybe in the future I can set up a sheet for Open Loop. I have a sheet for PE only.

dave w

[Chewy1576]

Can you post your .xdl file? I filter out ALL open loop data. Maybe in the future I can set up a sheet for Open Loop. I have a sheet for PE only.

dave w

I'm pretty sure it was this one. The Open Loop thing is probably it then.

[dave w]

I'm pretty sure it was this one. The Open Loop thing is probably it then.

I changed all the values in Column "AJ" to Closed and the spreadsheet worked, see attached screen of near idle table with Column AJ set to closed.

dave w

[Chewy1576]

I changed all the values in Column "AJ" to Closed and the spreadsheet worked, see attached screen of near idle table with Column AJ set to closed.

dave w

That's a good idea. Thanks for the insight Dave.

[De-stroker]

The use of the Autoprom is not required to get the WBO2 information into the data log. The 0v ~ 5v output from the MTX-L has to be wired directly into the computer, pin B16. See attached screen shot.

The MTX-L will need to be re-programmed for 0v = 10 AFR / 5v = 20 AFR

dave w
Im gonna try this with my lc-2

[dzidaV8]

Hi Dave, I'm wondering why are you filtering only closed loop data for WBO2 corrections? It doesn't make sense to me, as BLMs will change WB readout in CL.

[dave w]

Hi Dave, I'm wondering why are you filtering only closed loop data for WBO2 corrections? It doesn't make sense to me, as BLMs will change WB readout in CL.
I use WBO2 data from open loop AE and PE when the computer locks the BLM's to 128. CL WBO2 data will validate the corrections to the VE tables for rich or lean BLM's. A VE table causing rich or lean BLM's will also cause rich or lean WBO2 data in CL. BLM corrections have a limited ability to correct for rich or lean conditions. I've tuned several vehicles with AFR's. The WBO2 tuned vehicles run better, have fewer emissions, and achieve better MPG using CL WBO2 data.

dave w

[dzidaV8]

I've always disabled CL when tuning with WB to prevent BLMs messing up the calculations. I've never thought about doing it in CL but I guess it can make sense. By the way, some ECMs still use BLM corrections in PE, but only when BLM>128

[MAC]

Firstly let me say thanks to everyone for contributing to this thread. I am working through this and making changes to my tune.

I am trying to understand what I am actually doing and where this will get me. I think that this spreadsheet will help get my VE tables “correct”. It does this by using WBO2 readings when:

The computer is in closed loop
The computer is in open loop AND the BLM=128


The spreadsheet finds areas where the tune is not at stoich and then either adds or subtracts from the VE% table. This will subsequently add or subtract fuel to move everything towards stoich.

Is what I said above correct? Please set me straight if I am wrong.

My expectation is that I will end up with a tune that looks something like the attached picture. But I could be wrong.

11815

So my biggest question is this:

I do not understand how this process will get me to a tune that looks like the attached picture because it seems like this process is moving everything towards stoich.



BTW – I set the spreadsheet to 14.1 because all of the gas around me is E10.

Thanks,

MAC

[dave w]

There is a string of "Average IF" in the spreadsheet.

Average If, = Closed Loop
Average IF PE, = False
Average IF AE, = False

BLM's are not used and are Completely disregarded.

BLM's above 128 are lean.
BLM's below 128 are rich.

Increasing the VE table cell value (for example 2400 RPM, 70KPa) 68 to 78 will lower the AFR ratio (for example 15.2 AFR down to maybe 14.6 AFR, just guessing here to illustrate what will typically happen). Likewise if the BLM averages where 138 and changing the cell valve from 68 to 78 the BLM average will lower to 133, again just guessing.

PE is filtered to Average IF, PE = Active

To actually achieve 14.1, the Narrow Band O2 sensor voltages will need to be adjusted in the chip, which I've never done. The Narrow Band O2 sensor voltages are attempting to correct BLM's to 128 or 14.7.

I would first get the AFR's close to 14.7, then tweak the Narrow Band O2 sensor voltage to get the BLM's for E10 AFR.

Quite often BLM's and AFR's will contradict each other.

I like tuning with AFR, because the engine will run better than tuning with BLM's!

dave w

[MAC]

Wow quick reply! This helps. I will go back to 14.7 per your advice. Still not sure where this process is taking me.

When I am finished, will I have a tune that "makes power" by driving towards 12.3 at WOT and also runs fuel efficient by driving towards 15.3 (AFRs for E0 and as example) around cruise conditions (say 55 kPa and 1800 RPM)?

Basically what is the goal and final outcome of the tuning that this spreadsheet feeds into?

[dave w]

Stock engines with the stock chip are usually pleasant to drive and work well in a wide variety of driving conditions. Generally the stock engine and stock chip will have AFR ratios close to 14.7 +/- 0.5 AFR for a wide variety of driving conditions.

When an engine has been modified with performance parts, the stock chip does not provide a pleasant driving experience in a wide variety of driving conditions. Modified engines with a stock chip will not have 14.7 +/- 0.5 AFR's for a wide variety of driving conditions.

Modified engines need the Fuel Tables (also know as Volumetric Efficiency, VE Tables) corrected or re-calibrated to provide 14.7 +/- 0.5 AFR's for a wide variety of driving conditions.

The spreadsheet is a "Tool" that crunches the data log to show where the VE corrections are needed and calculates the required amount of change the VE table needs.

The spreadsheet is set up so the current VE Table in the .bin can be copy / pasted into the spreadsheet, then calculates the changes (from a data log using the current .bin file) so a "New" VE table can be copied / pasted into a new or updated .bin file.

Once the VE table is good, then it's time to adjust the PE and AE. The computer "Assumes" VE table is correct and adds extra fuel for AE and PE based on the VE table.

The spreadsheet will separate near idle VE and off idle VE when "Idle Flag" = ON.

dave w

[De-stroker]

There is a string of "Average IF" in the spreadsheet.

Average If, = Closed Loop
Average IF PE, = False
Average IF AE, = False

BLM's are not used and are Completely disregarded.

BLM's above 128 are lean.
BLM's below 128 are rich.

Increasing the VE table cell value (for example 2400 RPM, 70KPa) 68 to 78 will lower the AFR ratio (for example 15.2 AFR down to maybe 14.6 AFR, just guessing here to illustrate what will typically happen). Likewise if the BLM averages where 138 and changing the cell valve from 68 to 78 the BLM average will lower to 133, again just guessing.

PE is filtered to Average IF, PE = Active

To actually achieve 14.1, the Narrow Band O2 sensor voltages will need to be adjusted in the chip, which I've never done. The Narrow Band O2 sensor voltages are attempting to correct BLM's to 128 or 14.7.

I would first get the AFR's close to 14.7, then tweak the Narrow Band O2 sensor voltage to get the BLM's for E10 AFR.

Quite often BLM's and AFR's will contradict each other.

I like tuning with AFR, because the engine will run better than tuning with BLM's!

dave w


:happy:

[MAC]

Hoping that it is okay for me to post these things here and that other folks new to tuning can learn from this. If I am out of bounds, mods feel free to delete/move.


Will I be "done" with this part of tuning once I have everything in blue for "near idle no PE/AE" and "off idle no PE/AE"?
I am surprised that my injector DC is so low. I upgraded the fuel pump. Pressure is around 13 psi. Does this chart (photo) "make sense" to you guys with lots of experience?11831
I am getting a lot of knock. How "bad" is this? How to I make it go away? (see picture)11832
I am getting lots of spark advance at low RPM and high kPa. What does this mean? 11833
I am very surprised at how much I have decreased VE compared to the stock tune. Again does this "look right"? Could it be related to upgraded fuel pump? Picture shows the difference between the stock BIN and my current tune. 11834
Last but not least I thought I would share my current WBO2 map from the spreadsheet. Got a long way to go. Comments welcome. 11835


Thanks,
AC

[De-stroker]

Hoping that it is okay for me to post these things here and that other folks new to tuning can learn from this. If I am out of bounds, mods feel free to delete/move.


Will I be "done" with this part of tuning once I have everything in blue for "near idle no PE/AE" and "off idle no PE/AE"?
I am surprised that my injector DC is so low. I upgraded the fuel pump. Pressure is around 13 psi. Does this chart (photo) "make sense" to you guys with lots of experience?11831
I am getting a lot of knock. How "bad" is this? How to I make it go away? (see picture)11832
I am getting lots of spark advance at low RPM and high kPa. What does this mean? 11833
I am very surprised at how much I have decreased VE compared to the stock tune. Again does this "look right"? Could it be related to upgraded fuel pump? Picture shows the difference between the stock BIN and my current tune. 11834
Last but not least I thought I would share my current WBO2 map from the spreadsheet. Got a long way to go. Comments welcome. 11835


Thanks,
AC Your VE is set too low the tune is bringing your IDC way up when it gets bad the knock is going way up. The tune turns up IDC while the WB is leaning it out don't the forget it! Take your log time down on the wb first and if it's still cycling too fast raise your VE it most likely will stay up. Wait for Dave.
Brandon..

[dave w]

Attached is a .zip with a WBO2 data log .csv file to compare your WBO2 data with. The tuning was still in progress, but close. No two tunes are identical, but there are similarities to compare normal looking data vs. abnormal looking data. Tuning can usually correct abnormal looking data (Rick / Lean VE and Excessive Knock).

dave w

[tony-baroni]

HI Dave W, I've seen in many of your posts you're referring to screen shots, which I cannot see on my viewer. Any suggestions on how to enable that?

I am logged in.
I have set my "general settings" to show images.

[dave w]

Earlier this year there was a issue with some files / attachments missing after an update. What thread and post do you need the screen shots for? It's likely I need to report the missing screen shots.

dave w

[tony-baroni]

Thanks Dave W.

It's this thread, your posts, #5 and #15.

I'm interested in your use of the ECM as a way to use WBO2, as I'm about to purchase either a BURN2 and Ostrich 2.0, or a APU1. I'm leaning towards the lower cost BURN + Ostrich, especially if I can use the ECM for a future WBO2 sensor. Thank you for sharing your tools an expertise on this forum!

[dave w]

Post 25 has the most recent version of my spreadsheet. Post 26 has some helpful screen shots using the most recent version of my spreadsheet.

I decided on the Ostrich 2.0 and the Burn 2.

dave w

[tony-baroni]

Thank you Dave - I've downloaded the latest, and ordered my moates parts this morning!

[TNoutdoorsman]

Please update me with your thoughts / results after using the spreadsheet.:thumbsup:

dave w

I obviously have a lot of learning to do. I guess I need a chips for dummies course first.

[CDeeZ]

Dave, a few questions.

What is the password to unprotect the spreadsheet. I can't edit or enter any data into it.

And, I'm using Gregs Advanced $0E TP5 v252.xdf. It has only one WB02 table. It appears to resemble something close to Open Throttle in the 7427 with $0E. I can extrapolate data to come up with values to tune the idle table, I'd likely just copy what I have from the main Open Throttle VE table. This particular XDF also goes up in MAP in increments of 5 KPA... Which both tables in the 7427 start going up in increments of 10 KPA after what, 40 KPA?

[CDeeZ]

Nevermind I got past the password protect I had to enable editing, oops.


I have tried pasting in the entire CSV file generated by TPRT into the spreadsheet, as well as pasting just the AFR data into it. Also pasted in the existing VE tables of course and the spreadsheet keeps spitting out the exact same values of the existing VE tables? What am I missing here?

[dave w]

Please post the TPRT .ADX file and .XDL file you are working with.

Gregs Advanced $OE TP5 v252.xdf definition file is for editing the .bin file, not data logging.

dave w

[CDeeZ]

:doh:

[dave w]

The spreadsheet "Filters" out open loop data (Column AJ). Only "Closed Loop" is used by the averageif formulas. All the data in the 1234test.csv IS "Open Loop", so the spreadsheet will "Filter" out all the data from the 1234test.csv.

dave w

[CDeeZ]

So is there any way to make it work for something that is running open loop? I was considering running this thing in open loop full time and adjusting if/when necessary.

I think it must not be going into closed loop because there is no NB02 in there currently. Was hoping I could just stay
Open loop and rely on the wideband exclusively.

[dave w]

Yes, the spreadsheet will work if you change the data in Column AJ from "open" to "closed". See post #31 thru #33 in this thread.

dave w

[CDeeZ]

Dave, thank-you for explaining that again. I changed the entire AJ column where the data is located to closed and it works. Very nice spreadsheet you put together, thank you!

Question:

All of the changes made to the Open Throttle VE table were a reduction in VE, as I would expect based on the rich AFRs during the capture of that particular log. However, there are 3 cells in Idle VE table that were modified by the spreadsheet that were all an increase in VE.... Two cells in particular, that are the same RPM and KPA between both tables, cells were increased in the Idle VE table, and, decreased in the Open Throttle. Possibly a spike of irrelevant data causing the discrepancy?

[dave w]

Question:

All of the changes made to the Open Throttle VE table were a reduction in VE, as I would expect based on the rich AFRs during the capture of that particular log. However, there are 3 cells in Idle VE table that were modified by the spreadsheet that were all an increase in VE.... Two cells in particular, that are the same RPM and KPA between both tables, cells were increased in the Idle VE table, and, decreased in the Open Throttle. Possibly a spike of irrelevant data causing the discrepancy?

Welcome to the complex world of tuning. Change parameters, and see what happens in the spreadsheet (that's tuning). Typically increasing a VE cell value will lower AFR (richer). Typically decreasing a VE cell value will increase AFR (leaner). It's a good plan to have at least 5 data points (counts) in a VE cell, before making changes to the VE cell. It's a good plan the "Smooth" peaks and valleys in the VE Table.

Stating the obvious:
An engine requires less fuel at low RPM's and light engine load.
An engine requires more fuel at high RPM's and heavy engine load.
An engine needs more fuel to accelerate to 70 MPH, yet an engine needs less fuel to maintain 70 MPH once it achieves 70 MPH.

The VE Table is 3 dimensional, Load / Fuel / RPM, understanding the three statements above is 3 dimensional thinking.

dave w

[CDeeZ]

Welcome to the complex world of tuning.

Yeah tell me about it. Sometimes I wish I would have just jammed another LS in this truck like I did in my other TBI era OBS. Ironically, tuning an LS, even with a power-adder is easier for me. But, TBI is where I first started tinkering with EFI and it always has held a soft spot in my heart. It was the first transition from the era of carburetion into injection. And, TBI trucks just run forever and ever. Sure, you'll have burned up 3 or 4 anemic 4L60s in that time but the 300k+ mi TBI SBC is still going and doing what it was intended to do.

In a way it is cool though to have a strong TBI setup and keep the OBD1 era going, becuase OBD1 had to exist before anything that came after it.

In my interpretation of the data I mentioned above, I figured basically what you are saying about ignoring the spikes in the data and smoothing it all down as necessary.

Dave, your spreadsheet (and other contributions) have helped me and many, many others. I know Mark is pleased. I appreciate your efforts and I'll say this.... Just tell me where I need to mail the money for beer and hookers to say, thanks, and I will!

[dave w]

Dave, your spreadsheet (and other contributions) have helped me and many, many others. I know Mark is pleased. I appreciate your efforts and I'll say this.... Just tell me where I need to mail the money for beer and hookers to say, thanks, and I will!

Your public acknowledgement and kind words about my support of the board is both heart warming and very much appreciated! :thumbsup:

dave w

[grumbolt]

good morning Dave w,

i am having a problem understanding the spreadsheet from post 25.. i was able to get everything set up and datalog and such...

i copy and pasted the large csv export from tuner pro to the "insert datalog" sheet.

the issue i am having is locating the data that is needed on the "near idle wbo2 correction" and the "off idle wbo2 correction" sheets more specifically i am having issue with locating the "near idle VE table from tunerpro" and the "off idle VE table from tunerpro" tables.

i can find tables in the history "blm (off idle)" and "blm (near idle)" but i read that the spreadsheet ignores blm entirely....

i am using "Advanced $0D TP5 v251.xdf" with "A217 $0Dtp5 v250.adx"

any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks, grum.

[grumbolt]

i am having issue with locating the "near idle VE table from tunerpro" and the "off idle VE table from tunerpro" tables.



are "Idle VE vs. MAP vs. RPM" and "Open Throttle VE vs. MAP vs. RPM" the correct tables?

sorry to ask so many novice questions but i just dont want to make any mistakes.. i am sure as i become more acclimated to tuning, it will not seem so daunting lol..

thanks again, grum.

[dave w]

Yes, "Idle VE vs. MAP vs. RPM" and "Open Throttle VE vs. MAP vs. RPM" are the correct tables.

dave w

15667

[grumbolt]

Yes, "Idle VE vs. MAP vs. RPM" and "Open Throttle VE vs. MAP vs. RPM" are the correct tables.

dave w

15667

awesome, thanks.

i used that and then copied the prescribed values back to those tables after logging.

then i relogged and did it again with the fine tune numbers..

it seems to be much better now!

all the stuff i am using in tunerproRT including the log files and spreadsheets are located at http://robertweaver.net/tuning/

i think i have things kinda sorted out, i still have to do some logging and tuning while driving it around, but that will require someone to hold the laptop being that the buggy isnt super smooth and the terrain is anything but laptop friendly lol

i did see one thing that bothered me, while it was idling on log 2, everything seemed normal then everything dipped, the engine recovered and seemed ok, but i dont know what made it all dip almost to the point of stalling.

if you wouldnt mind taking a look and seeing if it looks like i am on the right track it would be greatly appreciated.

thanks again,
grum

the reason for the link above is the website would not allow me to upload the logs, xls, or csv files.

[dave w]

I'm thinking the .xdl is an allowed file type. Often files types that are not allowed can be compressed to a .zip file and attached.

dave w

[grumbolt]

here are the logs from the first 2 tries at tuning..

thanks again for your help and insight.

[dave w]

here are the logs from the first 2 tries at tuning..

thanks again for your help and insight.

Files??

[grumbolt]

lol i must have gotten the cart ahead of the horse lol... here they are now...

i had originally saved them as .rar files, i changed them to .zip and they upload now...

thanks again.

[dave w]

I can't speak directly to the logs you posted. I honestly do not have the free time to "crunch" posted data logs.

Tuning VE Tables often requires Smoothing the Peaks and Valleys in the VE Table that occur from the using the WBO2 spreadsheet. Smoothing is 3D thinking. An engine under heavy load and high RPM's require more fuel than an engine under light load and low RPM's. Kpa is engine load, an engine at 100 Kpa is at or close to WOT. The Kpa will be near 100 Kpa when the engine is being started. Engines need more fuel accelerating to 70 MPH than maintaining a cruising speed of 70 MPH. The computer interpolates VE values of the surrounding cells, so if the idle is 43 Kpa @ 700 RPM's the computer interpolates VE table values of cells 600 RPM's / 40 Kpa and 800 RPM's 40 Kpa. If the idle was 48 Kpa @ 700 RPM's the computer will interpolate cells 600 RPM's / 50 Kap and 800 RPM's 50 Kpa. As expected the VE value for 600 RPM's / 50 Kpa is lower than the VE value for 800 RPM's / 50 Kpa.

The attached has sample screen shots using the TunerPro "Smoothing" tool. I often use .55 for smoothing daily drivers. Tuning is experimenting, so smoothing with values between .35 ~ .75 are typical. Extreme peaks or valleys indicate something is VERY WRONG!. Minor peaks and / or minor valleys are common.

In a perfect world a data log would have information for every cell in the VE Table, but that would be nearly impossible to accomplish. It seems unlikely a daily driver will need tuning in the extreme corners of the VE table.

dave w

[grumbolt]

thanks for the insight.. the logs i currently have only have near idle data, i havent done any driving around with it yet, i will need to get someone to either drive, or hold the laptop to prevent it from being smashed.. the truck is off road use and doesnt really ride all that nice.. that being said, how long would you suggest to drive around while logging to get a good sample?

thanks, grum

[grumbolt]

ive been doing a little looking and it seems that aldldroid will datalog and it says it is compatable with tunerpro. if so, i have an old cell phone that i can use for datalogging as well as a dash board, if the data cable charges the phone at the same time as datalogging it will be perfectly suited for what i need... i can just set up a mount on the dash plug it in and leave it plugged into the aldl port. set it up to sync with my home server when on wifi and poof i dont even have to pull the data manually from the phone, just park the trailer close enough to the house for the wifi to connect! ill be sure to report back if i can get it working the way i want it to!

if you have any words of wisdom on this idea, i am as always all ears :)


thanks, grum

[grumbolt]

aldldroid does the datalogging and has a nice setup for a dashboard, the only issue i have is i cant charge the phone while datalogging, and the battery will die faster due to the phone powering the adapter.

i reached out to 3400tZ (author of ALDLDroid) on facebook and he was able to get my questions answered about logging and provided some insight on powering the phone and adapter from an external source!

here is the link that i think will solve that issue.
https://blog.workshoptwelve.com/2019/01/04/otg-usb-charge-hub-wtf/?fbclid=IwAR28WLBe3EoD5G5eR3-ydOYcuvdaBsIv6nwGfn5jABcNJ-CNZOraKgacvXU

thanks, grum

[In-Tech]

I've got one of these on my FireStick. I'm not sure what connector you guys need but there are a ton of small adapters around.

[dave w]

I like posts that share good technical information, that will be helpful now and in the future.

I've not ventured down the path of using ALDLdroid.

Please post details, links, or write-ups for "How To" ALDLdroid in a new thread. Myself and other members will greatly appreciate the information.:thumbsup:

dave w

[dave w]

Bump:

Updated .zip file in post #1

dave w

[Rob 689]

Hi everyone. Attached is a picture of one of my logs under the spark advance tab. The weird numbers in some of the cells seems like its not right? Is it normal to see tables like that after copying and pasting a log in?

[MAC]

Something is off, most likely in the way you copied and pasted. The ignition timing should generally be 15-40 degrees at any given point in the table.

[Rob 689]

Something is off, most likely in the way you copied and pasted. The ignition timing should generally be 15-40 degrees at any given point in the table.

what is the correct way to copy the data in?

also sorry the picture uploaded upside down for whatever reason.

I also do get knock retard from time to time and when i get passed about 35 percent tps. seems to be worse under PE.

My VE tables are close but not quite there yet. But im almost certain that my PE and AE are off but obviously i need to get the ve dialed in first before messing with those.

I am running a 94 350 5 speed manual with headers installed and a 3 inch exhaust after the y pipe which is custom not oem and is 2 inch out of the headers till the merge at the y.

Im also running a 16196395 PCM out of a suburban.

There are no factory configuration files for this combination not for a 350 and a manual that is. I am running an auto bin converted to a manual bin and my old original computer was a 16196396 ECM and was in $9A and im running $0D now so to copy over the spark tables i had to open a second instance of tunerpro under "Tools"/custom tools/new tunerpro instance. and i copied the tables over manually.

I know the spark for auto and manual is different and an auto isnt loaded as hard as a manual due to the torque converter and the fact that the manual cant force a shift.

Could something in the conversion be my problem???



PS. I did reduce the PE spark vs RPM table by about a degree and a half maybe 2 in attempt to reduce the knock retard under PE. Perhaps i should just zero it out for now until i get the VE dialed in?

Also earlier in this thread dave posted a sample csv data log if a nearly complete tune and the way i copy and pasted that one loads completely normally.

Only my logs produce the weird spark advance result and not other sample logs.

I also have this knock issue that i cant shake ever since the pcm swap. Any insight would be greatly appreciated, thanks,

Robert.

[MAC]

Post the BIN that you are currently running.

[dave w]

what is the correct way to copy the data in?

also sorry the picture uploaded upside down for whatever reason.

I also do get knock retard from time to time and when i get passed about 35 percent tps. seems to be worse under PE.

My VE tables are close but not quite there yet. But im almost certain that my PE and AE are off but obviously i need to get the ve dialed in first before messing with those.

I am running a 94 350 5 speed manual with headers installed and a 3 inch exhaust after the y pipe which is custom not oem and is 2 inch out of the headers till the merge at the y.

Im also running a 16196395 PCM out of a suburban.

There are no factory configuration files for this combination not for a 350 and a manual that is. I am running an auto bin converted to a manual bin and my old original computer was a 16196396 ECM and was in $9A and im running $0D now so to copy over the spark tables i had to open a second instance of tunerpro under "Tools"/custom tools/new tunerpro instance. and i copied the tables over manually.

I know the spark for auto and manual is different and an auto isnt loaded as hard as a manual due to the torque converter and the fact that the manual cant force a shift.

Could something in the conversion be my problem???



PS. I did reduce the PE spark vs RPM table by about a degree and a half maybe 2 in attempt to reduce the knock retard under PE. Perhaps i should just zero it out for now until i get the VE dialed in?

Also earlier in this thread dave posted a sample csv data log if a nearly complete tune and the way i copy and pasted that one loads completely normally.

Only my logs produce the weird spark advance result and not other sample logs.

I also have this knock issue that i cant shake ever since the pcm swap. Any insight would be greatly appreciated, thanks,

Robert.

Possibly modify a factory 7.4 / Manual to 5.7 / Manual. I recommend doing a copy / paste of all $OD 5.7 fuel and spark tables into the 7.4 Manual .bin.

[Rob 689]

Post the BIN that you are currently running.


Heres the files im using from the last iteration.

[Rob 689]

Possibly modify a factory 7.4 / Manual to 5.7 / Manual. I recommend doing a copy / paste of all $OD 5.7 fuel and spark tables into the 7.4 Manual .bin.

I know like there’s injector flow rates that are different what about like iac and stuff? Do you know like generally whag things would be different on a big block other than fuel and spark?

[dave w]

I know like there’s injector flow rates that are different what about like iac and stuff? Do you know like generally whag things would be different on a big block other than fuel and spark?

Gearhead-efi link for 16196395 information: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?337-16196395-PCM-Information-OE

Using the TunerPro compare option, possibly compare BJKW 94 C-G-K Truck 7.4TBI 4l80.BIN vs. BJDR 94 C-G-K Truck 5.7TBI 4l80.BIN from the link above (7.4 vs. 5.7).

Possibly compare BHDC 94 C-G-K Truck 7.4TBI 5speed.BIN vs. BHDF 94 C-G-K Truck 7.4TBI 4l80.BIN (Manual vs. 4L80)

I've noticed some .bin files (like BMHK I posted above) have Altitude Spark Bias set to ZERO and most .bin files have Altitude Spark Bias set to 9.8. On your current .bin maybe try Altitude Spark Bias set to ZERO to see what happens to the odd spark advance numbers seen in data log.

[Rob 689]

Gearhead-efi link for 16196395 information: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?337-16196395-PCM-Information-OE

Using the TunerPro compare option, possibly compare BJKW 94 C-G-K Truck 7.4TBI 4l80.BIN vs. BJDR 94 C-G-K Truck 5.7TBI 4l80.BIN from the link above (7.4 vs. 5.7).

Possibly compare BHDC 94 C-G-K Truck 7.4TBI 5speed.BIN vs. BHDF 94 C-G-K Truck 7.4TBI 4l80.BIN (Manual vs. 4L80)

I've noticed some .bin files (like BMHK I posted above) have Altitude Spark Bias set to ZERO and most .bin files have Altitude Spark Bias set to 9.8. On your current .bin maybe try Altitude Spark Bias set to ZERO to see what happens to the odd spark advance numbers seen in data log.

Okay ill try the altitude spark bias and ill compare all those those bins to see what exactly changes too. Thank you