Converting to a P10 ECM on an Olds LX5 engine

[IdahoCavalier93]

Hello all!
I have a crazy notion that I can put a 1999 Oldsmobile 3.5 L "Shortstar" LX5 into my 1994 Camaro in place of the iron 3.4 that's currently in it.
Most of the mechanical stuff is working out, but since this is a newer motor, I would like to figure out how I'm going to run it.
Tuning is going to be important to me since my ultimate goal is to turbocharge this thing, but I would just like to get it on the road for now.

I'll fill in more details soon--gotta get to work for now!

Thanks!

[dave w]

The attached pic is from http://www.aa1car.com/library/crank_sensors.htm

The big question is, which sensor type is used on the P10 vs. LX5?

dave w

[IdahoCavalier93]

That IS the big question, right?
How do I tell? As far as I know, the only way to tell by looking is that the Hall Effect sensor has 3 wires and Mags have 2. Is that correct?

It appears that my CKP is in the block, which leads me (uninformed) to believe that it is most likely Hall effect with a ferrous reluctor wheel cast into the crank. That's how my 3.1 in the Cavalier is....

The CPS is in the timing cover right in front of the intake cam sprocket on the right head. I will post pics!

Which one is compatible with the P10?

Thanks!

[1project2many]

That IS the big question, right?
How do I tell? As far as I know, the only way to tell by looking is that the Hall Effect sensor has 3 wires and Mags have 2. Is that correct?

Hall effect has three connections but you might not see all three. You could:

1) find wiring diagrams online
2) find diagnostic steps to diagnose faulty sensor online
3) find pictures of parts online

FWIW, as a long time truck guy my first thought at the title was "Where did someone find a 1/2 ton step van (P chassis)?"

[IdahoCavalier93]

Well, I have the engine out on a stand for rebuilding, so I snapped a few pics...
Here is what I think is the crankshaft position sensor...
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah309/jasonschawpshawp/LX5%20Camaro%20Swap/LX5%20Engine%20pre-swap/DSC03476_zpsi2l6ho7a.jpg (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/jasonschawpshawp/media/LX5%20Camaro%20Swap/LX5%20Engine%20pre-swap/DSC03476_zpsi2l6ho7a.jpg.html)

And this is the camshaft position sensor...it's a 3-pin connector.
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah309/jasonschawpshawp/LX5%20Camaro%20Swap/LX5%20Engine%20pre-swap/DSC03501_zps8yqoc9no.jpg (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/jasonschawpshawp/media/LX5%20Camaro%20Swap/LX5%20Engine%20pre-swap/DSC03501_zps8yqoc9no.jpg.html)

Here is the cam sprocket that the cps monitors and it looks like it doesn't have any flying magnets...
http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah309/jasonschawpshawp/LX5%20Camaro%20Swap/LX5%20Engine%20pre-swap/DSC03499_zpszs5e74ni.jpg (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/jasonschawpshawp/media/LX5%20Camaro%20Swap/LX5%20Engine%20pre-swap/DSC03499_zpszs5e74ni.jpg.html)

What do you guys think?

[dave w]

Well, maybe the CKP & CMP sensors from the P10 application will work if they could be installed into the LX5, or could be made to fit the LX5?

The LX5 camshaft trigger looks similar to the camshaft timing gear trigger design used on the 8.1. It looks like the LX5 has a raised area on the camshaft timing chain sprocket of about 175 to 180 degrees like the 8.1 has? It looks like the CMP sensor is pointing at the face of the camshaft timing chain sprocket?

It would be good to know what the CMP and CKP trigger wheels look like on the P10 Inline 6 cylinder.

dave w

[IdahoCavalier93]

Well, maybe the CKP & CMP sensors from the P10 application will work if they could be installed into the LX5, or could be made to fit the LX5?

The LX5 camshaft trigger looks similar to the camshaft timing gear trigger design used on the 8.1. It looks like the LX5 has a raised area on the camshaft timing chain sprocket of about 175 to 180 degrees like the 8.1 has? It looks like the CMP sensor is pointing at the face of the camshaft timing chain sprocket?



It would be good to know what the CMP and CKP trigger wheels look like on the P10 Inline 6 cylinder.

dave w

Correct sir! It points to the face of the cam gear that has that change in the raised area. It looks to be about 180 degrees to me.

WOW! Looking up the Atlas engine, I maybe wish that I had gone with that engine... 291 HP and 277 lb/ft of torque??

Hmmmm... the cam sprocket on the 2.4L looks like it has a different pattern, although it looks like the sensor orientation is the same.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MEL0/S908A/03453.oap?year=2005&make=Chevrolet&model=Trailblazer&vi=1431162&ck=Search_03453_1431162_-1&pt=03453&ppt=C0141#

Oh NO! The CKP on the 4.2 is only a 2 wire terminal!! Does that mean that it is flying magnet?
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/BWD0/CSS69/02807.oap?year=2005&make=Chevrolet&model=Trailblazer&vi=1431162&ck=Search_crankshaft+position!s!angle+sensor_14311 62_-1&ck=Search_crankshaft+position!s!angle+sensor_14311 62_-1&keyword=crankshaft+position!s!angle+sensor

[dave w]

The P10 4.2 Liter cam position trigger wheel appears to be a 2x design, which complicates the conversion. It might be possible to correctly machine and orient the 2x design on to the LX5 camshaft sprocket? It would be expensive to get both gears measured, CAD designed, then CNC machined!

I'm also thinking the P10 4.2 Liter CKP has flying magnets because of the 2 pin sensor. Maybe you can find a pick of the 4.2 liter crankshaft trigger? If the camshaft gear seems expensive, adding magnets to the LX5 crankshaft will require a winning lottery ticket!

dave w

[IdahoCavalier93]

The P10 4.2 Liter cam position trigger wheel appears to be a 2x design, which complicates the conversion. It might be possible to correctly machine and orient the 2x design on to the LX5 camshaft sprocket? It would be expensive to get both gears measured, CAD designed, then CNC machined!

I'm also thinking the P10 4.2 Liter CKP has flying magnets because of the 2 pin sensor. Maybe you can find a pick of the 4.2 liter crankshaft trigger? If the camshaft gear seems expensive, adding magnets to the LX5 crankshaft will require a winning lottery ticket!

dave w


WOW!
Is there maybe a different ECM that I could look into that is more like what I need?
Maybe like a Malibu or something... I'll run waste spark if I have to. I was hoping to do this on a budget?

[dave w]

The challenge I see to a budget OBD2 option is finding a V6 coil on plug Operating System that is supported by EFI Live or HP Tuners?

dave w

[IdahoCavalier93]

The challenge I see to a budget OBD2 option is finding a V6 coil on plug Operating System that is supported by EFI Live or HP Tuners?

dave w


I agree. That's why I am willing to run waste spark

[dave w]

I agree. That's why I am willing to run waste spark


One possible waste spark option would be a late 80's Buick V6 OBD1 waste spark system?

dave w

[roughneck427]

I remember long Ago a thread on monodax the aurora was supported in the 4.0 short star here Is a Shelby cal http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1912-bin-file-request&highlight=aurora

[Hog]

I have always known the 3.5 V6 LX5 as the "Shortstar" not the 4.0 V8 which is known as the Aurora V8. The 4.6/4.4s/c and the 4.0 Aurora were all Northstar design V8's of the same length. The Northstar to Aurora relationship is akin to 350 LT1 to 4.3 L99 V8 relationship, with the L99 4,3 V8 referred to as the "baby" LT1.

Some of those Northstar LMP race engines put out 650hp. The 4.0 Aurora was rated at 250hp @ 5600rpm (250hp@5600rpm) 260lb/ft torque @ 4400rpm (torque@4400rpm). Shelby installed the 300hp L37 Northstar intake cams and the Shelby 4.0 was rated at 320hp @ 6500rpm/290lb/ft (320hp@ 6500rpm/290lb/ft) torque @ 5000rpm. Though this rating is said to be high according to one of the books written about the history of the Shelby Series-1 car.

The 4.2 liter Atlas engine pulls hard over 5000rpm. It feels likes its a 2 stroke engine. I like to hold 1st gear until just before the rev limiter kicks in at about 6200rpm.

peace
Hog