3.1 v6 issues, might need help with a base tune?

[Tylerz281500]

bought a 92 camaro has a 3.1 in it. completely new animal to me. looking for clarifications.

heres my issue, idles alright, slight miss and searches for a constant rpm, it ran ok before but lacked a ton of power, go figure plugs and wires were beyond shot. cap rotor and coil look ok but im thinking i might replace them. it ran better off idle once plugs and wires were done, as well as fuel filter trans filter. detente was redone properly. but it'll just idle, once in gear it misses like crazy under load, so much that it really wont run at all. this leads me to timing, which im far from good at. but the mark was didn't even touch the pointers it was just before that on the balancer if that makes sense.

now researching timing, unplug esc etc etc move dizzy clockwise and that basic thing but im seeing alot on thirdgen.org that base time is 10* i cant find out if thats advance or retard or if thats even correct. my tbi trucks sits at 0* and thats where i leave it, it runs best there from tuning and its build so 10* seems ridiculous to me.

im just looking for a driver till i can build it once my trucks done. thinking of the smart way to approach this instead of spending money

what i know. 92 camaro rs 3.1 v6 700r4 trans gears no clue

was told head and intake port work, hypertech chip (which scares me) edelbrock cam( which im rather against) there were videos the previous owner sent me of it running astoundingly, he just couldn't take it with him to SC and his neighbor bought it whom i bought it off of.

While the chip and edelbrock are two of my least favorite things its what i have to work with, im finding heresy that base timing is all over the place on these, and theres a bunch of misinformation out there from what i can tell. so someone set me straight please wheres my timing suppose to be for starters, ill see where that gets me and then if the issues clear up ill see if someone can make me a timing corrected chip instead of the crappy hypertech

[1project2many]

Do you still have a tune-up sticker under the hood? That will tell you how to set timing. Many of the early vehicles required you to jumper the ALDL which puts the timing into a "fixed advance" mode. If so then it's very believable that timing should be at 10 deg advanced.

[sturgillbd]

Ignition base timing is 10* BTDC with EST connector disconnected. Attached are the instructions for setting the ignition timing on a 1991 3.1 V6 Camaro from the service manual. 1992 should be the same.

Hope this helps,
Brian

[Six_Shooter]

Do you still have a tune-up sticker under the hood? That will tell you how to set timing. Many of the early vehicles required you to jumper the ALDL which puts the timing into a "fixed advance" mode. If so then it's very believable that timing should be at 10 deg advanced.

Almost all of this^^^

The 3.1 in the F-body uses a '7730 and will have an EST bypass connector, either under the passenger side dash or above the heater box under the hood. SOMETIMES they pushed into the harness covering so you may have to look along the split in the convoluted tubing to find it.


I believe the 10* BTDC base timing is correct for the 3.1 in the F-body.

Also, have you replaced the fuel filter, air filter, checked fuel pressure, etc?

[Tylerz281500]

replaced fuel, oil and air filter, plugs (hod no cores) wires (had bosces, didnt like that).

screwed it up even more though. checked timing it was at 20* with the esc unplugged. in my book it tells me firing order is 123456. pass side is cyls 1 3 5 and drivers is 2 4 6 well based upon that the car doesnt run. the firing order they had was waaaaay off that. buick 3.1s apparantly are switched, pass side is 2 4 6 and drivers 1 3 5 but regardless of that the firing order was not 123456. it no longer runs. pulled the cap put cyl at tdc like i was told, wont even start, cyl 1 at tdc wotn even start. im soooo lost. fuel pressure was fine as well. was right were it was supposed to be when i changed filter, unless something changed since then

[Tylerz281500]

no sticker under the hood, hood was replaced with a z28/iroc hood with louvers, air dam was replaced with a tpi setup

[1project2many]

in my book it tells me firing order is 123456
That is correct. Yes, cylinders 1, 3, and 5 are on passenger side of car, 2, 4, 6 on the driver's side. Are you going clockwise around the distributor when connecting wires? Plenty of pictures for the searching. (https://www.google.com/search?q=1992+camaro+3.1+firing+order&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi3nbnnzILKAhXEHB4KHbeyCagQsAQIHA&biw=1024&bih=622#imgrc=zq2TMpNNnUVSlM%3A)

[Tylerz281500]

That is correct. Yes, cylinders 1, 3, and 5 are on passenger side of car, 2, 4, 6 on the driver's side. Are you going clockwise around the distributor when connecting wires? Plenty of pictures for the searching. (https://www.google.com/search?q=1992+camaro+3.1+firing+order&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi3nbnnzILKAhXEHB4KHbeyCagQsAQIHA&biw=1024&bih=622#imgrc=zq2TMpNNnUVSlM%3A)
yes i am

[Six_Shooter]

Yep, every single 60* V6 in that engine family is 1-2-3-4-5-6. The Buick V6 is not part of that engine family, and AFAIK only had 3.0, 3.3 and 3.8L displacements, no 3.1L "Buick" engine.

And yes, to verify as well, 1,3,5 on the passenger side, 2,4,6 on driver side.

If the engine doesn't run with that firing order, with the correct connections on the dizzy cap, then you have some seriously wrong.

Make sure that the post you have #1 connected to is indeed #1, and also make sure you are going around the dizzy in the correct direction. I don't recall what that direction is off hand, because all but one of my 660s have been DIS for about the last 15 or so years. lol

[Six_Shooter]

Yep, every single 60* V6 in that engine family is 1-2-3-4-5-6. The Buick V6 is not part of that engine family, and AFAIK only had 3.0, 3.3 and 3.8L displacements, no 3.1L "Buick" engine.

And yes, to verify as well, 1,3,5 on the passenger side, 2,4,6 on driver side.

If the engine doesn't run with that firing order, with the correct connections on the dizzy cap, then you have some seriously wrong.

Make sure that the post you have #1 connected to is indeed #1, and also make sure you are going around the dizzy in the correct direction. I don't recall what that direction is off hand, because all but one of my 660s have been DIS for about the last 15 or so years. lol

[damanx]

The rotation around the distributor is clockwise.

By the way, when you set the #1 to tdc, did you make sure that it was TDC on the compression stroke?

P.S. Six shooter, sent you a p.m. about the Moates Ostrich, did you get it?

[Six_Shooter]

Yes, TDC on the compression stroke, otherwise you're 180* out.

I'll look now for the PM.

[Tylerz281500]

i liined up 0 and 0 on the balancer, i guess ill feel for cyl 1 at tdc and retry running the firing order around. i just dont understand how it drove to my house and then when i started fixing things it wuld idle better but overall drive less

[Six_Shooter]

The #1 piston will be at TDC twice both times the mark will line up at 0, only one of those times at TDC is the compression stroke, that is when both valves are closed, so you need to make sure that is the case as well.

Sometimes, using the starter to get onto the compression stroke, with the #1 plug removed and your thumb or finger over the spark plug hole to feel for when there is a force of air being pushed out can help verify that the compression stroke is correct and then line it up at 0 with a ratchet once you know you're on the correct stroke.

[Tylerz281500]

i thought i could get lucky and go by feel, i fealt it at tdc or at the top of its stroke and ready for it to go down but ill have to do the thumb or screwdriver method. i hate that #1 is on the pass side becuase that is literally the hardest plug to get to

[damanx]

When you run cylinder 1 up to TDC, you need to make sure you are on the compression stroke. To do this, you can stick your finger into the cylinder 1 plug hole and feel for pressure as you rotate towards the zero mark.

Now when putting the plus on the distributor cap, you want to start with the number 1 plug wire on the post where the rotor is pointing to. Then 2,3,4,5,6 in that order going clock wise.

[Tylerz281500]

i will attempt to do so, might have to pull most of the egr stuff off to get down there.

[billygraves]

The balancer ring could have slipped. You are basing all your diag on this. Verify the balancer mark is true. Common on Small blocks and some 60 deg.

[Tylerz281500]

ill bump this, it still wont run! pulled the alt out of the way to get more access to cyl 1 figured out tsc on #1 set the timing all over again, got a chug or two while rotating the distributor, stopeed set it there and nothing. kept messing with it and stll nothing, i have spark i have fuel, i checked all the specs on ICM, wires, coil, cap rotor etc etc etc. and have nothing, fuel pressure is still fine.

what else is there? if vats were an issue the security light would pop up correct?

i have the esc still unplugged. the alt is unplugged does it need to be plugged in? is there a secondary fuse that controls the brain? the only other code i got from it was a map code but i was under the assumption it would still indeed run

[Xnke]

Have you used a timing light yet?

"got a chug or two while rotating the distributor" does not mean "it's timed to 10*BTC"

Did you unplug the ESC module or the ESC timing wire? It's a single tan-with-black-stripe wire with a 1 pin weatherpack connector on it, IIRC.

[Tylerz281500]

no sense in using a light as it wont even run yet. its btdc!? not tdc? how is one suppose to set something at tdc, that goes against everything ive ever known.

esc wire is unplugged. so what set it at 0 at tdc then retard it to 10* on the balancer and drop the distributor in at 0 pointing at cyl 1?