1994 Camaro 3.4 V6 ODB1 TunerPro RT Moates Xtreme ALDL

[Jyuma]

ADX P66 V6
XDF P66 V6
Bin 16236044 94 F Auto federal.bin (something I found but have no idea if I need)

I'm really only looking to read codes for now and I think I've accomplished that but I have no clue (other than hunt and peck) how to use this software.
The only error code I see is for the right rear O2 sensor which in turn is causing the system to function in Open Loop.

I should mention that the reason I'm going through this is because the engine developed a dead miss that I can't find. The software appears to have the ability to disable the cylinders one at a time (similar to pulling plug wires out of the distributer like we used to do) but when I use that feature I get no difference on any of the 6 cylinders. The software can also disable 2-4-6 or 1-3-5 as a group and one time (and only 1 time) when I selected that option and clicked "send" (I assume I'm supposed to click send) the engine sputtered badly and almost stalled but I was able to remove the command (for lack of a better term) before the engine stopped completely. I was never able to duplicate that effect and now it doesn't matter what cylinders or group of cylinders I disable, it makes no discernible difference in the running engine.

Also... I've seen numerous You Tube videos of the dash display in TunerPro with multiple viewing options via a drop down but all I get is a single drop down labeled "default". I can see all the changing values when the engine is running and I can read the codes but I don't get those pretty gauge displays I see in the YouTube videos. I must be missing something.

Sorry for being such a noob but the documentation doesn't appear to be structured with the noob in mind.

Thank you for any help you can provide.

[RobertISaar]

as the creator of the ADX(and XDF), I've used the cylinder deactivation feature quite a bit while testing and it's never failed to work for me... I'd have to check the code concerning it, but it may disable the function if a DTC is set. the function allows for an injector(or 2 or 3 or whatever combination of cylinders you might want to disable) to not fire when it should until the clear command it sent(and all mode 4 effects are undone) or another mode 4 command is sent(and the new request will be acted upon and the old forgotten).

sounds like you're referring to the "dash" function of tunerpro. the majority of those are built by the end-user, when I release an ADX, I tend to put in at least a basic dash, but lately I haven't used the dash function at all, only the item list and monitor. based off of the title of "default", sounds like you're in the Item List view, getting to the dash, histogram or monitors is simple enough though.

http://i.imgur.com/4IeE7W3.png

those 4 icons switch between the available views.

I did write a rather extensive guide on the tunerpro forum(and possibly here as well) about creating your own dash, but I could probably grab an example one and integrate it into the P66 V6 ADX if you have one in mind that you're particularly fond of.

[Jyuma]

Thank you for your quick reply. Your comments on the disable cylinder function have convinced me that I simply do not know how to properly use this software.

For example your comment: "the function allows for an injector(or 2 or 3 or whatever combination of cylinders you might want to disable) to not fire when it should until the clear command is sent (and all mode 4 effects are undone)."

I had no idea I could disable a combination of injectors... I don't know what a "clear command" is... I have no idea what "all mode 4 effects are undone" means nor would I know how to undo them. Inasmuch as the problem is clearly my lack of understanding, I wonder if you would be so kind as to explain exactly what I need to do in order to disable a particular cylinder. Here is what I am doing now... I select from the dropdown menu to disable, lets say, cylinder 6 and then I click "send". Is that correct? If so, then what would I do to "clear" the command? Also, how would I disable more than 1 cylinder at a time?

Thank you so much for your help.

[RobertISaar]

to get unique sets of cylinders to shut off, the ADX would need to be modified.... I only set up the 1/3/5 and 2/4/6 combinations to make sure it worked as I expected it to. shutting of those cylinders keeps an equal interval between cylinder firings, essentially making a 60V6 an even-firing 3 cylinder(though with significant pumping losses to try and overcome). the commanded AFR function is the same, it could be setup for whatever you want it to be, I chose something a bit leaner and a bit richer than stoich for testing.

the command to clear mode 4 effects is in the same list you use to choose between cylinders to disable, should be at the bottom.

it sounds like you have the process correct, but for whatever reason, it isn't taking effect? these PCMs do like to chatter quite a bit to the Driver Information Center modules that were equipped to certain models. even if you don't have the module present, the PCM still attempts to send information to it. one way of getting around that is to send Mode 8 messages to the PCM, that disables its normal chatter for a short period of time(about 2 seconds if I'm remembering correctly) and then resumes normal communications. alternatively, when the normal datastream is established, the PCM quits attempting to send those messages, so those commands should be able to be sent while a link is already established with the PCM.

[Jyuma]

Unfortunately I could not get the "disable cylinder" function to work beyond that one time that the "disable 2/4/6" appeared to work. All other times that I tried to use the "disable cylinder" function it had no noticeable effect on the engine.

On the assumption that I was becoming too analytical (is there such a thing) I went ahead and replaced the coils and plugs and that fixed the dead miss issue. It is far more likely that it was one of the coils than one of the plugs but being that I replaced them all at the same time I can't be sure which caused the problem... maybe a combination of things were the cause but thankfully the engine is back to her old self.

This does not mean I've lost interest in using the TunerPro RT, I love that I can finally see the sensors and values that in the past I could only guess at. Would you be able to point me in the direction of the guide you wrote on creating your own dash or maybe add one to the P66 V6 so I could download it? I don't know enough to know which dash I prefer so I will yield to your judgment on which is best.

Thanks again for your help.

[RobertISaar]

http://forum.tunerpro.net/viewtopic.php?t=2094

there's the thread from the tunerpro forum, you may find a few interesting bits in it.

[Jyuma]

Great...

Thanks again

[Jyuma]

Hmm... I just took a look a the thread and apparently there is an app that gets used to edit the file? Is that correct? Please forgive my ignorance but where can I find this app?

[steveo]

right in tunerpro itself;

acquisition menu > edit definition

[Jyuma]

I saw that option in the Acquisition Menu but it didn't say edit ADX... it said edit definition. Had I known that "definition" meant ADX I wouldn't have asked such a dumb question. Sorry.

bTw... The codes I pulled said that the O2 sensor (passenger side) was bad so after some bruised knuckles and a whole lot of deleted expletives I finally got the old one out and replaced it. I was shocked at what a difference it made in the smooth running of the engine. It was like a totally different car. However, my euphoria was short lived as after warm-up (about 15 minutes) there was a noticeable change in engine performance accompanied by slight shaking and breakup at high throttle. Unfortunately ODB1 doesn't appear to have the ability to detect this type of problem as there are no codes being issued.

Is there someplace I could got to find what all the values returned by ODB1 (when the engine is running) should be? Some things are fairly obvious like engine RPM but others are just values/numbers that have no meaning to me. Is there a chart someplace that tells you what all these values should be under normal circumstances?

Thanks.

[1project2many]

This directory (http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/def/aldl/) has original definition files for many of the OBDI vehicles. You can use the index file to locate the correct definition then use the definition (they are text files) to edit your ADX.

[Jyuma]

Included is a short recording (xdl file) taken using TunerPro RT of my 1994 Camaro 3.4 V6.
The engine runs great when first started... runs smooth, plenty of power. But after about 10 minutes of runtime (in other words, as soon as it warms up) the engine runs like crap. I can't even hold 55 MPH on the highway. Severe misfires but I don't think there's any popping back... more like cylinders not firing. Must limp home in low (automatic tranny).


The recording was made after the engine was warm and immediately after limping home.
Things already changed...
both O2 sensors.
PCV
Plugs
Wires (2 years old but not used)
Oil/filter
air filter
timing chain.

[RobertISaar]

with a miss that occurs after fully warming(and the list of items you've replaced already), I would take a look at the ICM and coilpacks, those will both show any weaknesses they have at full temperature.

[Jyuma]

My apologies... I forgot to mention that I already changed the 3 coils.

[RobertISaar]

what about the ICM? those can certainly fail in a manner to cause these kinds of issues.

[Jyuma]

No... I have not changed the ICM. I was under the impression that the ICM was primarily used during starting, with ignition control being passed to another module above 400 rpm. However, in hindsight the ICM must continue to be an integral part of the process as much of it remains in circuit after startup.

I'll replace the ICM and report back.

Thanks

Update: Ordinarily I try to support my local parts supplier but they (Advance) wanted over $130 bucks for a part I can get online for half that price. I ordered the ICM for $65 bucks and free shipping. I'll have it in 2 days and I'll report back after I install it.

[1project2many]

You can use a spark tester in series with the plugs to determine whether or not you have good spark before you replace the module. You can buy a nice one that makes a nice, crisp "snap" sound with each spark. Or you can open a stock plug to .100" to make one. Here's the tester I prefer:


http://www.chevelles.com/techref/hei_files/image010.jpg

[steveo]

beware cheap knockoff ignition control modules, they can leave you stranded, or be dead right out of the box! 65 bucks is certainly a cheap knockoff.

[Jyuma]

The ICM I bought is about the middle of the road as far as price. It's a "Standard Motor Products" which may not be up to OEM standards (although they claim to be) but it's also nowhere near the $180 to $200 price tag of an original AC Delco part. I'm not even certain that the ICM is the problem but to be honest, if it turns out that it is the problem I wouldn't hesitate to buy the $200 brand and consider the $65 I already spent to be a troubleshooting fee. Why not? I've already dumped enough money into this car that I could have bought another car.

[steveo]

It's a "Standard Motor Products" which may not be up to OEM standards (although they claim to be) but it's also nowhere near the $180 to $200 price tag of an original AC Delco part.

i wouldn't trust that as a sound diagnostic measure either.

i've had tons of standard motor products things fail in short order.

a good parts store can bench test an ICM. napa or whatever. make them test it repeatedly so it gets nice n stressed out.

[RobertISaar]

if you drive there and the engine is already flaking out by the time you get there, as long as you move quickly enough to pull it off of the car and onto the bench, that should be enough to find out in one test.

[Jyuma]

Well... no joy. I received the ICM I ordered online and it showed up damaged in the box. I returned the part for a full refund and went to my local parts store and shelled out the $150 bucks. Same thing with the new ICM... runs fine when cold but as soon as it warms up it starts to run like crap... like at least 1 cylinder (possibly 2) isn't firing.

Any ideas? I've replaced everything in the ignition circuit short of the crank sensors.

[1project2many]

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?5076-1994-Camaro-3-4-V6-ODB1-TunerPro-RT-Moates-Xtreme-ALDL&p=55747&viewfull=1#post55747

[RobertISaar]

hmm..... I've seen crank sensors do something like this before, but generally it would show up in the datalog as wildly swinging RPM values, along with usually showing up on the tach.

[Jyuma]

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?5076-1994-Camaro-3-4-V6-ODB1-TunerPro-RT-Moates-Xtreme-ALDL&p=55747&viewfull=1#post55747

I fully understand your message and will follow your lead. Like I said earlier, I may be getting a bit too analytical with this problem which can sometimes result in overlooking the obvious. Having said that... I already replaced the 3 coils, the ICM, all the plugs, and the wires. Still... your advice is sound.

I'll let you know.

[1project2many]

The spark test is important. If you have replaced all those parts and you are still getting no spark then there's likely a problem on the control side of the ICM. If you have plenty of spark you can give up diagnosing a working ignition system and move on to fuel and / or mechanical issues.

[fastacton]

It probably doesn't matter now, but I buy Standard and AC Delco parts on a regular basis depending on what's cheaper that day. I've found that many of these parts only differ in the exterior packaging. I don't know that it's the same for all of their parts, but I suspect that Standard is either the original manufacturer or both they and AC Delco buy from the same supplier.

[1project2many]

Some folks don't realize tha ACDelco is nothing more than a brand name these days. Delco doesn't make parts, they buy them from a manufacturer.

[Jyuma]

Problem solved... well, the major problem solved, I've still got problems... like a surging idle... but the major problem of running like crap after warm up is gone.

Turns out at least one of the new plug wires was bad. How do I know? Because I pulled the plug wire off the plug in cylinder 3 and the connector stayed on the plug but the wire was in my hand. That's all I had to see, I went right to the parts supplier and bought another new set of plug wires (better quality).

Anyone who has ever changed passenger side plugs on a 94 Camaro knows what torture is like. You can't even see a few of the plugs on the passenger side let alone get a plug socket on them. So while I was changing the plug wires anyway I also pulled all the (new) plugs and gave them a good inspection. The plug from cylinder 3 was badly carbon fouled, so that leaves little doubt that #3 wasn't firing right. The other plugs all looked pretty good but did show signs of a rich mixture. The other plugs were not bad enough to have been the cause of my problem but #3 definitely was.

So one problem solved but another took it's place. I now have a rough idle with surging. It's probably another sensor or two. I'll let you know.

Thanks for the help.

[twiztidditzwit]

I know it's five years later to hear this: but, check your engine coolant temperature sensor. It could be 'working' but giving the ECM an incorrect temperature. It sounds like once the o2 sensors warm up enough to allow the engine to go into closed loop and the PCM begins to adjust the pulse width of the injectors to be more efficient, and relys on an accurate reading of the engine's coolant temperature sensor that could possibly be functional, but askew. Just a thought because countless times the: "runs great at first, but runs like crap once it warms up" symptom is usually a ECT sensor or o2 sensor that doesn't fully fail but becomes, 'lazy' or, 'lies' to the ECM