Quick question about auto trans ecm with 5speed manuel trans

[BigBanks78]

Hello everyone

i have some codes I'm trying to track down, mainly 62 which on this 707 8B mask is a auto trans shift code. I'm using an ecm and bin file from an auto trans car with a 5speed standard trans. 1990 quad 4 from a grand am in a 85 fiero. Using apu1, tunerpro.
My question is do I need to find an ecm for a standard trans or switch to a standard trans bin file or set this bin file to standard?? I have tried copy compare on all the trans settings I can find but I'm pretty sure it continues to come up. It's up now. I do have other codes I'm working out, 26, 13, 51, I have new o2 sensor going in now and clipping wire I think is causing quad driver code and 51 is probly me and emulator having issues but anyway I wanted to ask so I'm not chasing something I'm not going to find.

Thank you you all for your time

[1project2many]

Do you have the trouble code mask? Disable the code? Also, there may be an auto / manual trans flag to change.

[axisT6]

I am not familiar with your ECM or mask, but when I converted my 95 Chevy (7427, $OD) AOD to 5 speed manual, I was running into issues as well. I would hit a wall a 3500 rpm. I tried modifying the auto trans tables to get the ECM to think it was manual mode with no luck. The ONE thing that did it was that I found a Flag for turning the shift light on or off. Once I checked the box to turn the flag on, I was good to go.

[BigBanks78]

I have the standard trans flag checked but not shift light at the moment,they have settings but not the same as a standard bin I have to compare, why I didn't start with it I'm not sure. I have heard of turning off code. What is the trouble code mask?? :-)

[BigBanks78]

Not sure I'm having problems because the light but it's always on so I don't know but I will look for all the shift light parameters and see.

[1project2many]

What is the trouble code mask?? :-)

The list of the locations for each trouble code flag so you can enable / disable them.

[axisT6]

I have the standard trans flag checked but not shift light at the moment,they have settings but not the same as a standard bin I have to compare, why I didn't start with it I'm not sure. I have heard of turning off code. What is the trouble code mask?? :-)

Trouble code mask? I don't think I follow. As for trouble codes, I wasn't throwing any that I can remember.

[1project2many]

As for trouble codes, I wasn't throwing any that I can remember.
The OP has trouble codes.


Trouble code mask?
Yes. The listing of each code the ecm can test and record so the tuner can turn it off or on. Here's a trouble code mask from $42:

LD4FB FDB $00E0 ; 11. ERROR flag 1
;
; b7 ERROR CODE 12 NO DRP
; b6 ERROR CODE 13 OXYGEN SENSOR
; b5 ERROR CODE 13 OXYGEN SENSOR
: b4 ERROR CODE 15 COOLANT SENSOR LOW
;
; b3 ERROR CODE 21 TPS HIGH
; b2 ERROR CODE 22 TPS LOW
; b1 ERROR CODE 22 TPS LOW
: b0 ERROR CODE 24 Vss
;----------------------------
LD4FD FDB $00E1 ; 12. ERROR flag 2
;
; b7 ERROR CODE 25 not used
; b6 ERROR CODE 31 GOVERNOR FAIL
; b5 ERROR CODE 32 EGR FAILURE
: b4 ERROR CODE 33 MAP SENSOR HIGH
;
; b3 ERROR CODE 34 MAP SENSOR LOW
; b2 ERROR CODE 35 not used
; b1 ERROR CODE 41 not used
: b0 ERROR CODE 42 EST MONITOR ERROR
;----------------------------
LD4FF FDB $00E2 ; 13. ERROR flg 3
;
; b7 ERROR CODE 43 KNOCK SPARK CONTROL FAILURE
; b6 ERROR CODE 44 o2 LEAN
; b5 ERROR CODE 45 o2 RICH
: b4 ERROR CODE 51 PROM ERROR
;
; b3 ERROR CODE 55 ADU ERROR
; b2 ERROR CODE 54 FUEL PUMP RELAY FAILURE
; b1 ERROR CODE 53 not used
: b0 ERROR CODE 52 CAL PACK MISSING

[BigBanks78]

The list of the locations for each trouble code flag so you can enable / disable them.
I have list of codes but the auto trans shift dtc isn't in list to check off.

[BigBanks78]

Well I have ruined 2 7427 ecm's using autoprom so I may have ruined this 1 as well because nothing I do to it makes it run anywhere close to how it was a month or so ago. I was out doin wot runs on and off highway and it was very impressive but after that night it has ran like crap no matter what I do.

[BigBanks78]

Can I edit xdf to add the 26 and 62 dtc? Just so u know I have zero experience with this stuff and little with computers period so that list u posted is Greek to me. I have replaced ecm and all trans related stuff has been changed to standard and still get 62 shift code. My adx shows the codes but xdf does not??

[1project2many]

You can edit the xdf.

Which xdf are you using??

[BigBanks78]

Sorry bro it's 8B. I explored a little but canceled the add flag I looked at, I have really messed things up not knowing what I'm doing so I try and research first. The 8B stuff is not worked like the 0D, it doesn't have comments on parameters ect, ect, the ads file didn't have anything set up in it, someone here looked at it for me and got a dash going and a table to get me started. I added some data tables and a dash to adx and it worked but adding a flag had letter spaces I didn't understand

[1project2many]

If you roll through the list of trouble codes from the service manual and compare it to the trouble code on/off locations in TP you can often get fairly close. I'll see if I can add it when I get to a machine with TP.

[BigBanks78]

Really?? I'll look, my dad has owned this auto repair shop sense 1991 and we have Mitchell shop software and all kinda info but didn't think to look for missing parameters in the xdf until lately. I have seen how much the OD is use and just read some threads here about how EE is missing a lot cuz not much time has been spent trying to identify the code (trying to find best sequential mfi obd1 ecm, planned a7730 with 7427 for 4l80e) so I'm thinking I'm working with something (the 8b 707) that's not fully explored. I can post a bin and I'll look at dtc list....I would really like to know how to look at this stuff say hey here is some code with no parameter!! :-) what subject would that be? Computer or software engineering?

[BigBanks78]

If you roll through the list of trouble codes from the service manual and compare it to the trouble code on/off locations in TP you can often get fairly close. I'll see if I can add it when I get to a machine with TP.

the add flag box had a type box or 2 that had letters a numbers in them and that's what confused me. It looked like the prom spacing type boxes when burning a chip, those had me scratching me head for a bit too.
And thank you very much!!!

[1project2many]

I would really like to know how to look at this stuff say hey here is some code with no parameter!! :-) what subject would that be? Computer or software engineering?

We covered a lot of code work when I took computer engineering. Some of the classes overlapped with the software specific guys.

I had started a thread called Code:Learning Disassembly Assembly (http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1571-Code-Learning-Disassembly-Assembly) to help with questions like this. I figured it would be an "anything goes" place for questions about whatever in the code or programming was of interest. Take a look and feel free to post questions.

[BigBanks78]

Ok I will! :-)

mind if I keep picking ur brain?? The add "new flag" box/window in the xdf editor has an "address (hex)" type box with 0x00 in it, and a "bit number" drop down with bit 0-7 and use mask options. Also has a type box next to drop down with 0x01 typed in it. Will I need to find somehow the hex address and bit#. Is that where the info is located in the bin.

[1project2many]

Open up a trouble code. Pick a number as close to 62 as you can get. It will have an address and a bit#. Get the trouble code list from the service manual. Find the same trouble code you have open. For each higher trouble code in the manual, count down one bit. If you get to zero you're going to have to go to the next higher address and start at 7, then count down until you get to 62. This is not a guaranteed method but it usually gets you close enough to try.

I can't put TP on this computer so I can't look at the definition now but I'll do my best to try and get something up tonight.

[1project2many]

Ok, so here we go. Pictures 1 and 2: Easiest way to add trouble code flags is to copy an existing code and edit the important stuff. Picture 3: After locating a list of factory codes, build a chart for proposed locations of new code flags by using other codes close by. Picture 4: Edit the copied trouble code by changing address (if needed), bit location, and code name. Picture 5: After inserting the code do a sanity check and see if the flag in the existing calibration makes sense. IOW if you find a "0" where you expect the code to be turned on, the location or bit location is probably wrong. Final test, turn off the code in a new calibration then see if it really is off, or if it comes back.

[BigBanks78]

Ur freakin awesome!! I'm trying now but left my code list at shop so charging tablet to look in identifix for codes but I seen several in the list that were not in there, including 53 and 54 I think but I think I get what u r saying. If the address needs to b changed will that b a count down or up thing?

[1project2many]

I found a page at http://www.troublecodes.net/gm/89_23a_mfi/ that has a code list. I added 53, 62, 65, and 66 to the XDF above. Remember, they may not be right!! Sometimes there are codes in the chip that aren't enabled and aren't listed in the service manual. Try it with 62 shut off and see if 62 really stay off. If it doesn't work try the next bit. If you have to move down one bit at a time until you get to 0 then move to the next higher address and start again at bit 7.

[BigBanks78]

Ok thanks!!! Don't hesitate to ask me for anything in Mitchell or identifix you can't find or something from a pull a part yard. Yard near me sells ecm's for $15. I don't mind repaying your help or contributing to the community in some fashion!!!!

[1project2many]

Thanks. At $15 an ecm I'd end up with a pile of 'em.

[BigBanks78]

I do have a pile!!! But i have needed them lol!!!

I am trying the xdf, I will let you know what it does :-)

[BigBanks78]

Ok still have the code I'll try changing bit #

[BigBanks78]

Ok I tried all bit # compared to a supposed 5 speed bin and all were same so stopped to compare adx edit info with xdf to see if had something that would point me in a direction. I found that address changes every so many codes, here's some pics of adx. I changed xdf to 76 from 75 in your xdf mod based on 42 and 43 is and address change and changes again before 62.....is my thinking anywhere in the ball park??

edit I'm going to ground 2nd state sw wire, thinking 3rd too, shift light hooked up but does not come on all other auto trans wires cut. I have code 26 and 62, 62 is 3rd gear, 26 quad driver A code, quad A controls 2nd, shift light, coolant fan, a/c, anyway going over wiring to make sure.

[1project2many]

Good idea to look at the ADX. That shows the bit number for the code so all we need to do is determine what location it's in. I can try and look at the information this evening when I'm at a machine that runs TP.

[BigBanks78]

Ok wires are all good and those couple grounded (I figured 62 would come back after I got going down road and it did) and 26 comes right on. Even switched ecm's still come on......going back to turning code off, I'll try what I figure will b right 1 and turn off, c what happens

In the xdf editer can a table have rows and columns added? Like my mat spark ad vs mat vs map, the lowest value temp wise is 44 degrees Celsius. I'm getting 12 degrees Celsius.

[BigBanks78]

Ok so no luck yet, I haven't tried every change but most.
I had to use 4 questionable valve seals in build and I think they came loose, I revved it up a little after trying new chip and blew white smoke when engine deceled so will b fixing that before I continue :-(

[1project2many]

Sorry... will look at this later. You can't usually add rows or columns, especially without a disassembly to work with. Fix the seals though... that's a big deal.

[BigBanks78]

Ok 2 of those seals came loose, long story about oreillys auto parts and an incomplete gasket set, but good now.

I did track down the code 26, the grand am ecm did not like the fiero cooling fan relay. Fiero relay diagram showed a diode and resister for control where grand am had only resister, wasn't real sure so switched to regular relay and now only code 62 (3rd gear) so gonna start lookin at editing again tomorrow maybe.

I read some of that MAT thread you replied to, that's some technical stuff!!! BUT! I understood aLOT more of it Han I would have several weeks ago.....interesting!!!!!:popcorn:

[BigBanks78]

Ok fixed valve seals and got frustrated now over it :-) starting over. Also been building from scratch a ford 9 inch with worm gear posi diff for my regal to take mind off this thing.

I ask you before about this xdf file being incomplete or having parameters labeled wrong, I think there are a few.
Shouldnt selecting manuel trans in flags turn off auto trans gear fault codes? And I think mat spark correction is measured in Fahrenheit but labeled celcius. Starts loosing power at 75-80f and table starts retarding timing at what says 68c. Shouldn't it advance timing as mat temp rises??

[BigBanks78]

Hey 1project2many I'm thinking this xdf is gonna b a problem. I've tried address and bit changes but no luck.

I just tried changing the stoichiometeric air fuel ratio scalar from 14.6 to 13.0 and its not doing what I expected. When set at 14.6 my afr meter stays within 4-6 points of 14.6 so stays between 15.1 and 14.4 maybe. With the scalar set to 13.0 it acts like it only loosened the range it can fall to, so now when I gas it afr meter goes into the 13's. It does run better but has a dead spot (power drop) maybe when it switches to power enrich spark table or something (just a guess) but picks back up. And Blm reads 111 where it read 128 after fuel ratio scalar change to 13.0

So that makes me think it's not labeled right either. I'm thinking about using a different, more popular ECM.

[BigBanks78]

Here's something that is confusing.......how did I change an undefined item?? I can load other .bins in compare tool and some have as many as 6 undefined items in difference tool. That's the 2latest .bins. Why did it change???

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[1project2many]

Are you comparing the same base file? Are the files read from a chip or saved from your tuning software.

[BigBanks78]

I started with a file I have been using that was saved in computer. I edited the saved file and saved it then burned it to a chip. I looked at it a day later in difference tool because a have seen that undefined item several times and was curious to see if it was there again. I changed 2 things, 1 using copy from compare button the other I changed by hand. I started from 1 stock bin read from a stock chip and when I edit a file I just add a short label like (goodblmpematup) then edit and add a number 1 then edit add a 2 and so on. I probably have 100 edited files all started from 1 :-). I do have a couple high out put bin files I have tried to get trans info from but haven't tuned on them. Pics are of the most recent bin compared to what I first started from.
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Im about to put a new timing chain and tensioner on just to b dang sure and I think my cam towers may be warped so gonna disassimble that stuff and index the cams while I'm there. I will have to drill holes in cam towers to get a dial on the lifter, got a couple pairs, thinking I'm going to make a different header too. The one I have is probably more for mid range (from what I have read) it's a 4-2-1, unless I can find a formula to get the 4-2-1 working at high rpm I'm going to cut up a set of sbchevy truck headers and do a 4-1, still need formula to get length but I think it may b easier. IF I HAVE TIME AND I MAY FIND OUT IM COMPLETLY WRONG :innocent2: IT HAPPENS OFTEN!!! :-) So I'm really just playing around opening all the stuff I haven't yet and trying to familiarize myself with the software stuff. I forgot to turn off egr when I tuned ve table so I have to start over anyway. I have learned a lot sense I started though, cool stuff I love it!!

Thanks so much for all your help!!

[BigBanks78]

I just read the chip again and now they are there again but different. This is same file I have been working and compare is right out of the autoprom from stock anmp chip
10618
The pics below were of parameters that difference tool said was different but were same but I think I forgot to save them to file before using difference tool so that may be my mistake

[BigBanks78]

I compared a bin file from a 1990 high output with 5 speed manual trans to the 1990 low output bin file auto trans and there were hundreds of undefined items in difference tool. List was so long I about fell asleep going through it all.

[BigBanks78]

Hey I tried the high output 5 speed bin file just now. I drove home for lunch and back with no check engine light!!! :-) Code 62 3rd gear error has been only 1 I'm getting so I'm guessing that I have the wiring harness correct. I've tried grounding auto trans wires 1 by 1 no luck. I have also copy compared shift light parameters with no luck.

Ok ok tell if this make sense; I'm going to set the flags before and after flag 62 in AMNP bin (auto trans) opposite the ANMS (manual trans high output bin) flags and see if there is an undefined item in between them and copy compare if there is. If so will the info in difference tool tell me the address or location of the 62 flag to add the flag to xdf??

[BigBanks78]

Yahtzee!!!!!!! It worked!!!!!!!! The highest number code was a 45 and next flag wasn't anywhere near the code 45 so I compared difference tool list to xdf editor for code 45 and it was a b76 and there was a b79 then b9e I think so I copied the b79 from manual trans bin to my auto trans been. The cel will come on after 2-3 miles after I put new file in ECM but not this time!!!! I hated that light but I wasn't sure how that code would effect the rest of the file because it would turn the cooling fan on when code would set. So fan was on all the time. Wondered if it was going into abuse protect mode or something similar.

Now I have to learn how to identify all the other undefined items :-)

Thank you bro I really appreciate your help!! Couldn't have done it with out you!! :-)
1062910630

[BigBanks78]

Ok so those 2 undefined items come up every time I save the file wether I changed anything or not. All I have to do is hit the save button that looks like a floppy disk. I hit save button 3 times in a row changing nothing and continues to show up. Could this be the checksum id or something??? I hit copy from right to left each time in difference tool still changes right back.

10693

[BigBanks78]

Why hey it is sideways I don't know. I changed ae multiplier by .03 and saved it and now it changed to e4 and c7 and stays there?????

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