A219_0E_31_v250.adx, PE not working

[JeepsAndGuns]

Per a request by mark in another thread, I have found something thats not working in my ADX.

When datalogging everything on the dash works except the box that says PE. Its normally says inactive, and is supposed to change to active if its in PE mode. Well, it doesnt matter how hard, fast, or far I push the gas pedal I can never make it say active, not even for a split second. Its right next to the box that has AE, and its set up exactly the same, but it works. It will say active any time I hit the gas pedal. But the PE has never worked.

I am running the A219_0E_31_v250.adx downloaded directly from tunerpros website. The only changes I have made was to change a couple of the little boxes on the dash to stuff I wanted displayed. And also the changes made per instructions here to make data tracing work. But the PE display never worked even before I did these changes.
I have tried a couple diffrent $0E bins and that didnt work.
I tried a $31 bin and that didnt work either.
I tried a couple $0D bins and the A217_0D_v250.adx, witch the dash is set up the same, and it didnt work on it either.

Its not really that important, but if its on there, I would kinda like for it to work. Any ideas?

[93V8S10]

Please go to the "Power Enrichment Parameters" and set the "PE Delay Time" to 0.0. Then go to "Power Enrichment Tables" and set "TPS for Fast PE vs. RPM" and "TPS for PE vs. RPM" to 10%. Then re-test.

[EagleMark]

Then once it's working change the adx to say OFF and BIG POWER!

[93V8S10]

lol!

By the way, those settings are not intended to be permanent.

[EagleMark]

How come it's not working if he put a stock chip back in?

[93V8S10]

Don't know yet.

I'm just trying to rule out the bin.
I've got 5 stock $0E bins.
BHDC, BHDF, BJKZ, BMHK have PE delay times of 70.0 sec. and BJDR has a delay time of 110.0 sec.!

[EagleMark]

Sec? or ms? Why would they delay PE for that long? PE would not come on at the drag strip till you were getting your time slip... unless this PCM does not need PE, it does it some other way? 70 to 110 seconds wait time and then add PE would be to cool it off?

[EagleMark]

:yikes: I know why! It takes that long to figure out the 17 PE paremeters! :laugh:

[93V8S10]

Seconds.

There is a fast PE as well as the delayed PE. He should be seeing fast PE become active, don't know why he isn't.

I can't find any problem with the way the adx is set-up.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Don't know yet.

I'm just trying to rule out the bin.
I've got 5 stock $0E bins.
BHDC, BHDF, BJKZ, BMHK have PE delay times of 70.0 sec. and BJDR has a delay time of 110.0 sec.!

I am running BMHK.
So your saying that it delays going into PE for over a minute? Wow, so basicly I have not ever actually went into PE?

I was kinda afraid I might have to try changing a couple setings in the bin and testing. I dont have time during the week to play with it, so this might have to be put on hold untill this weekend. But I can go ahead and make the changes to the bin.

[907 Chevy]

I noticed the same issue while logging data recently. Out of three different data logs,PE was never shown to be enabled.
I've already zeroed PE delay time and will lower the PE tps tables,but I wasn't sure if the issue was in the bin or the adx.$0D btw

[93V8S10]

If this is the vehicle you will be driving the rest of the week, don't make the changes yet. Those setting are just for temporary testing.

907 Chevy, are you having this same problem with $0D?

EDIT: I see you said $0D, sorry.

[JeepsAndGuns]

No, this is in my 79 cherokee thats in the avatar picture here. I can only afford to drive it on the weekends. My daily driver is my 93 wrangler.

[93V8S10]

I did some tests using the bin settings above. I can't find any problem with the PE display.

[EagleMark]

I had looked at the adx file and it looked proper so I did not think you were going to find an issue there.

JeepandGuns converted a 1227747 to 16197427 so I'm wondering if in the conversion pin out charts is an issue? In the beginning he had what seemed to be a lean bog on acceleration and shifting (Manual) that's how we got on that Throttle Kicker Topic. He found some big differences in Auto and Manual bin files in AE to fix it, so that led me to believe it was his bin. But he said he went back to stock chip and still did not see PE working in TP ADX... so... wondering if it is a wiring issue in the conversion?

[gregs78cam]

I had the same factory settings in my .bin when I set up the Camaro. You can set the delay to zero, or lower the Fast PE Threshold. I think I remember reading that it was done for better mileage, in the heavy duty applications which is what mostly came with the $0E, MotorHomes, Passenger Vans, etc.

[93V8S10]

I don't see how the wiring could be an issue, but I certainly don't know everything.

The problem is the bin, the stock settings are pathetic.

[907 Chevy]

I figured it wasn't the adx as I couldn't even feel PE kick in as I was driving the truck. I'll play around with PE entry settings,but need to get my ve tables dialed in first. It def would explain why my new engine has felt kinda sluggish.

[JeepsAndGuns]

I will be busy sat morning, but I plan on tinkering with this sat afternoon. So its almost time to play...lol

So in the meantime, in order to better understand whats going on here, and make better judgements about what needs to be done. Can someone explain in a little better detail the parameters for PE. Such as regular PE, and this "fast" PE your talking about. What is fast PE and what dictates its use over regular PE. Also, explain the delay. Whats its use and purpose? I understand what PE is (richens the mixture, and adds a little timing) But when and where it should come into play is the grey area.
What would be the optimal settings for PE? Is it normally based on TPS or MAP, or both?
Would the setting be something (simply for example, or conversational purposes) It would enter PE anytime the TPS is over 50%, and then the delay timer comes into play, so anytime its held over 50% tps for 5 seconds, it knows your wanting to burn rubber and goes into PE? And the delay timer is so its not constantly kicking it on if your say shifting gears and its only at that TPS % for a second or two?

[93V8S10]

I don't really understand how it all works together well enough to explain, but your explanation seems to be about right. With my truck I took the simple rout and set the PE Delay to 0.0 and lowered the tables to 45% TPS. For a daily driver I'd probably set it to 65% or so.

I've started looking at the code some to see if I can get a better understanding of how all these parameters fit together.

[EagleMark]

Anyone have an $OE datalog I can use? I've been setting up some $OE ADX and XDF for my kids $OE system we are going to install on his IH 345 .020 over Isky cam Balanced engine we built. Would like to check data Tracing...

since this topic came up I looked through PE and here's what I did so far to PE stuff...
PE delay to 1 second from 70
RPM Difference to Bypass PE Delay to 10 from 125
RPM to Bypass PE Delay to 1450 from 4300

Not sure how "Base PE AFR" and "PE Slew Multiplier" work? Since in tables there is a PE AFR...

Since it's a heavy truck and will be towing his rock crawler I'm trying to leave most things set conservative. Like one setting to enter PE was TPS 10.9 percent? I was going to increase that. But that is no where near what tables say to enter PE which are 60 to 90 % TPS which would be about right? Maybe this TPS to enter PE at 10.9 % was to start timer, but if you shift gears and go below 10.9% it starts again? Even in an Auto Trans being above 10.9% TPS for 70 seconds you would be past the fuel cutoff of 98 MPH before ever getting qualifiers met to enter PE...

[gregs78cam]

If I had my laptop here I could go over all of it, but I don't remember all of the constants, and tables that are involved.

Mark, you can go over to my project thread and get a couple of my datalogs.

[EagleMark]

No internet at home yet?

[gregs78cam]

Actually yes we got it back on this morning, but I am at work right now.

[EagleMark]

It'll be good to see you back!

[1project2many]

It helps to remember OE tuning priority. 1) Emissions, 2) Economy, 3) Warranty, and 4) Driver experience. $42 has a PE delay factor and many of the truck cals had a large delay which was only bypassed if RPM went above 4500 or so such as during a hard downshift. Fuel economy may be part of the PE delay factor but emissions compliance and catalytic converter operation are major players. When the AFR gets rich HC and CO increase, O2 decreases, and the cat tends to coold down and stop working. Lower than normal AFR plus a non reacting cat meant bad marks at the EPA emissions test center. The code and calibration are specifically written and adjusted to allow WOT operation during testing without going into open loop or cooling the cat.

Don't think GM isn't above fooling with the EPA. The reason highway lean cruise mode wasn't enabled in these pcm's is that cals were originally set up to stay out of lean cruise during EPA pollution testing but would enter lean mode during mileage testing and real world driving. Once the EPA realized what was up GM got into trouble for having an emissions defeating device installed and ended up disabling it in all subsequent cals where the code is present.

As an aside, it's worth noting that cat overemp protection code can prevent continuous operation of lean cruise mode. If the model determines cat temp exceeds safe limits it can (depending on the code) force 14.7:1 AFR and / or adjust timing to cool the converter and prevent meltdown.

Remember: Emissions, Economy, Warranty, Driver Experience.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Does the 7427 0E have highway lean in it? Or is that only on the 7747 42 bins?
Also, mine does not have a cat on it, so are here any cat parameters I should disable?

[93V8S10]

Uncheck the "Catalytic Converter Overheat Protection" flag.

[JeepsAndGuns]

I looked for that "Catalytic Converter Overheat Protection" flag but did not see it anywhere under flags?

I had time today to change the settings and give it a try. I set the delay to zero, and then all the PE to 50% throttle, and all fast PE to 60% throttle.

Took it for a drive and the PE icon will now say active when I push it past 50% throttle. Does seem to pull just a little better too.
Seems pretty good as is, would there be any reason to change these settings? I'm thinking mabey up the % just a little more in the higher rpm parts of the tables, that way if I am driving at higher speeds (I have no overdrive, 70mph I am running 3100rpm) it wont be wanting to go into PE as easy. I will probably base those settings off what tps% I am at at those speeds. It will just take some more time and logging.

[EagleMark]

I looked for that "Catalytic Converter Overheat Protection" flag but did not see it anywhere under flags?Flags, first category air fuel mode words about fourth from bottom "Catalytic Converter Overheat Protection " in $OE anyway, forget if your useing $OE or $OD?

[93V8S10]

I've been wading my way through the PE code and trying to make a flow chart. I had hoped to have something to share by now but don't, thought I was close but I had missed a few things. This code is very complicated (for me anyways), there is a lot going on, much more than I expected.

[93V8S10]

Finally made my way through!

Hope this helps everyone with setting-up PE. I know that I will have a different prospective when it comes to my truck.

[gregs78cam]

I knew there was a lot to it, but :yikes:

[EagleMark]

Holy crap Batman! :yikes:

Can you make an easy button in the xdf? :laugh:

That was a lot of work! Thanks 93V8S10! :thumbsup:
Does this apply to all $OD, $OE etc... I'd like to add it to each ECM infor thread it pertains to?

[93V8S10]

I believe that $E6, $0D, $0E, and $31 are all the same in this area of the bin, except for different addresses. The addresses shown are for $0D, $E6 will be a few bytes behind, $0E will be a few bytes ahead, and $31 will be two bytes ahead of $0E.

I'll look into it and update the zip file above with the different addresses.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Wow, I'm sure that was a lot of work. But looking at it, I have no idea what I am looking at. Basicly I am too stupid to make any use of it. What is it and what does it mean, and how do you use it?

[93V8S10]

Basically it allows you to see the order that the code uses each parameter and for what, at least that was the goal. Did you see the other page with the new names and descriptions? This page may be the most help.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Yea I saw the chart (or whatever the proper name for it is) There is a lot of stuff it goes through before it will go into PE. So much in fact that I get lost in the chart after the first few boxes...lol
Is the first part something thats supposed to be added to the XDF? If so, then I would have to send my xdf to someone else to have it done, as it is lightyears over my head.

[EagleMark]

It is very complicated but he has gone into great detail of the entire procedure. I think all that is needed is already in the XDF it's just a matter of testing. Delay to 0 or 1 over 70 seconds will be a quick deciding factor.

[EagleMark]

I believe that $E6, $0D, $0E, and $31 are all the same in this area of the bin, except for different addresses. The addresses shown are for $0D, $E6 will be a few bytes behind, $0E will be a few bytes ahead, and $31 will be two bytes ahead of $0E.

I'll look into it and update the zip file above with the different addresses.That would be another huge amount of work really not needed if you just added the above quote to PE zip file already done. Since most people would not be making changes based on address but rather XDF... IMO...

[93V8S10]

Yea I saw the chart (or whatever the proper name for it is) There is a lot of stuff it goes through before it will go into PE. So much in fact that I get lost in the chart after the first few boxes...lol
Is the first part something thats supposed to be added to the XDF? If so, then I would have to send my xdf to someone else to have it done, as it is lightyears over my head.
There is a second page to the Excel file that has the proposed changes to the xdf and descriptions for each parameter. All of the parameters are already in the xdf you have, except for one, but the names are a little misleading.

[93V8S10]

That would be another huge amount of work really not needed if you just added the above quote to PE zip file already done. Since most people would not be making changes based on address but rather XDF... IMO...
It's already done!

[JeepsAndGuns]

There is a second page to the Excel file that has the proposed changes to the xdf and descriptions for each parameter. All of the parameters are already in the xdf you have, except for one, but the names are a little misleading.

Oh, ha, I didnt even notice that 2nd page.
So the name of the xdf parameters should be changed to whats listed? Same for the discriptions? I might need a good step by step on how to do that.

[93V8S10]

Yep, thats what I was trying to say.

A step by step could be arranged. The changes to be made aren't hard at all.

[EagleMark]

It's already done!OK so $OD, $OE, $31, $E6... I think... am I forgetting any? My fever hit 102 today so I'm... well I shouldn't be here... but want to put this in each of the ECM info threads.... in a couple days...

[93V8S10]

Yes, those four.

Hope you get to feeling better soon!

[JeepsAndGuns]

Wow, its amazing how much you can learn in as little as 6 months...lol

Bringing this thread back from the dead to add some more info and findings to it.

If you read the thread, it turned out to be that I was simply not going into PE, because of the delay time. Once I set the delay time to 0, I would finally go into PE, and though it seemed to pull a tiny bit better, it wasnt all that much. I never understood why mark said to change the adx to say BIG POWER. As I just didnt see it.
Fast forward to when I installed a WB02, and I could see my actual AFR. I had also learned a tiny bit more about PE AFR and that its usally around 12.5. Well when I would stomp on it and the datalog dash said PE active, AFR was not 12.5. It stayed normal and verry verry slowly started going up to 12.5, but usally by the time it got there, it was time to let off to shift gears or I was starting to break the speed limit. But I still never understood this "big power" But oh well, this is not a chevy engine, so I just didnt worry about it.

Well fast forward a lot more to just a couple weeks ago. Out of a curiosity experiment (and a few other reasons) I randomly decided to try a 350 $0D bin. I spent a hour or two making all the required changes to work with my mpfi system, changed all the base settings, copy and pasted in my spark and fuel tables, and made a handfull of other changes (such as dfco, man trans, and pe delay time) I reset the ecm and tried it out. It ran diffrently, but not all that bad, not like I was expecting. Idle/iac logic was surprisingly not a issue (figured since it was for a auto, I would have stalling issues) I actually had to reduce the fuel tables across the board. I didnt really have any results any better (actually most were worse) than my old bin, except for one thing...
I punched it to go into pe with that 350 bin, and as soon as I did, my afr instantly (like split second) dropped to 12.5 and it took off like a rocket! I havent felt this much power from this engine since I built it. Holy crap, NOW I see what mark was talking about "BIG POWER"
So all this time I had never really fully been going into pe, or something in my bin was making it not work right, or be slow to fully enter it. I knew right away I had to change it. I zip back to the house, unhook my bettery to reset the pcm, then open up two instances of tunerpro and procede to copy and paste every singe pe parameter from the 350 bin into my bin. Every scaler, every table, anything whatsoever that had to do with pe. Burnt it and took it for a ride.
Oh yea baby. I cant believe after all this time I never really knew I was not really fully going into pe.
Just wanted to update this with my findings incase anyone cares. I dont know what it was about the pe setting in my bin that was making it act the way it was, but boy what a diffrence it makes when I punch it! :rockon:

[EagleMark]

"BIG POWER!" :jfj:

So what was not set right?

[JeepsAndGuns]

I have no clue. There are so many PE parameters, who knows if it was 1 or a combanation of a few. I know when I copied and pasted all the values, some were close, some were way diffrent, and mabey a couple were the same. The bin I copied the parameters from is BJYM, and I copied them into my bin witch is BMHK.

I forget, what bin are you and your son running in his truck you recently swapped to a 7427? If you are also running bmhk, try what I did and copy and paste, and see the diffrence.

[EagleMark]

His is a frankenstien bin now and works fine... WB says it has "BIG POWER!" :jfj: