Is this all that effects timing?

[Superbee]

Hey, quick question, i have a 7749 ecm running code59 controlling a 2.0 turbo engine.

I have two ostriches, one with an E85 tune and one with a 91 pump gas tune.

For the longest time ive ran the e85 and got a great tune but I moved and now have a 30 min drive to work everyday so i brought out my 91 tune. Started tinkering with it and The one thing I dont understand is the ignition timing.

Im running 17-20 psi boost DAILY (I hit it multiple times every time I drive the car) and this is what my timing tables look like...

The higher I go with the timing the more it likes it picking up more and more power and actually less knock. Right now it rarely get 5 or more degrees of knock retard. Usually only 1 degree or so.

To me this amount of timing at that boost is just not possible, Am I missing a timing table that is taking timing out??

[Superbee]

and one more thing id like to add, this tune is a little rough is why the timing table isnt real smooth or dialed in...

also, Ive checked my BASE TIMING with a timing light MULTIPLE TIMES and also ive checked two balancers I had and the timing mark lined up at the same place (unless both slipped lol) So unless my timing mark on my timing chain cover is wrong, the base timing should be correct.

[1project2many]

The displayed timing values do not agree with my experiences with that engine. I would suspect the main timing table displayed timing does not take into account the coolant bias and the corrected timing table may or may not include the boost bias.

[Superbee]

Well, funny, i turned up this 91 octane tune to what is displayed on the pictures which is more than my E85 tune, and now with my pump gas tune i make enough power to make the clutch slip. this things runs like a stripped ape now and best of all, if you remember my other thread, i now have no more than .5 degrees knock retard as I did two 3 gear pulls on the way home tonight!!

I turned my knock setting to what is attached in this pic.... they were the stock syty starter tune which had attack rate almost twice as much i think and recover rate almost half.....idk if that caused my knock to be less sensitive no? should just adjust the incriments so i assume it was all in the timing..

[1project2many]

Those settings would not change sensitivity (reported knock) but they would reduce the amount of timing removed on average.

[Superbee]

Did I go too small on them to be safe or does that look reasonable?

and anyone else have ideas on the total timing question?

[1project2many]

I have never found a need to adjust those values. I feel they are a safety net that should be kept in place in case a problem occurs. LT3 head gaskets are not known for magical sealing ability so I prefer to allow the ecm to reduce the advance quickly if there's a problem.

[Superbee]

True but i dont know what stock setting is. Is what is on code59's syty starter bins a factory setting? Ive only found garbage as far as tuning info on what is "stock" for a turbo 2.0 which has made tuning this car a long drawn out learnong experience :\ haha

[1project2many]

You can get a $58 definition and stock .bins here (http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?331-1227749-ECM-information-58). They've been there for years. The main and boost timing tables will be viewable but remember that they only go to 200 kPa. You can open two instances of Tunerpro if you want to compare tables.

[Superbee]

well I looked and got my new esc settings are pretty much what factory was now..

As for the timing, looked like they ran about roughly 25 degrees at 20 psi..... im at around 27 now... still dont understand this. I gotta be missing a table or like you said, the bias tables......but that is a code 59 starter bin. Looking at the sy ty bins they arent running crazy timing amounts in the main spark table so i dont get it..

[1project2many]

looked like they ran about roughly 25 degrees at 20 psi

No. The original calibration was designed for a 2 BAR sensor. It *never* saw 20 psi. Are you using a 3 BAR sensor?

[Superbee]

sorry for the delayed response, I found my notifications were being sent to my junk mail.

Yes I am running an MSD 3 bar map.

[Superbee]

also im confused, the stock sunbird tune shows up to 190 KPA??

[Superbee]

sorry, i realized i wasnt properly converting kpa to psi, should be 14ish psi.

[1project2many]

Yes. Factory cal stopped at 2 BAR. Copy/paste these tables into a 3 BAR cal results in too much timing for pressure.

[Superbee]

Not to bring up a dead thread but im jumping back onto this. Car still running hard 1.5hr + every day. Ran a tank of 87 this week and still no knock. I limited it to 8psi just in case.

This morning i marked my balancer up to 40 degrees, and while in emulation mode i commanded 0,10,20, and 30 degrees timing and checked with timing light and it corresponded on the balancer. Is there somthing im missing? Slipped harmonic balancer is the only thing I can think of but i had TWO identical balancers.

While launching off 2 step i get ALOT of backfire and flames out the exhaust which is another indicator of fairly low ignition timing (just shy of 40 degrees commanded at that load and rpm)

while im making a fair amount of power i know the car isnt putting down what it probably should just based off other's experiences and would like to really push this thing but I just cant bring myself to ignore the timing numbers on my tune....

[Superbee]

10525

[Superbee]

One other idea. Different balancer and or timing covers over the years of 2.0 production?

[Superbee]

Alright guys, any ideas at all? Im lost.

I converted back to a 2 bar map and converted everything to a $58 setup. Got a STOCK SUNBIRD 2.0 turbo bin.

After changing BPW to work with my larger injectors, I drove the car. Car was a PIG. The big turbo spooled very quick compared to normal. After just 2 one gear 3/4 throttle 8 psi pulls i pull over and the ehxuast log is starting to glow red.

I added 6 degrees timing to the WHOLE map... took it down the street. Added 6 MORE.... then 3 more.... all right off the bat. Thats 15 degrees timing total from factory tune. Car is WAY more peppy and no knock counts at all.

What the ****

I again checked ignition timing this weekend. Timing belt install has balancer mark facing 10 degrees which is what manual says and others have gotten the same thing after a quick google search...

Timing light on plug number 1 is around 6 to 10 degrees jumping around with timing connector jumped.

What the hell else can i do to figure this out??? I can say screw it and just time the dang thing by the plugs but I would like to know a rough idea what numbers im at. This is so frustraiting.

[newellshk]

Could your afr be off? Too rich will slow the burn and it'll want more timing.

[Superbee]

thanks for the reply, but no, its not that.