Problem adding MAT to $0D TBI 7427, Not pulling timing.

[96lt4c4]

Most of you guys have seen that I am successfully running boost on a 7427 with a 2 BAR map. The truck is running great. I added a MAT sensor to the setup so that when the air coming in gets hot, I can rely on the sensor to pull some timing. For some reason that function is not working. The MAT itself is working, because I can log the temp. This "MAT & CTS Blend Multiplier vs. Airflow" is working as well. I have the MAT sensor flag set.

I have the MAT Bias set to 9.8

As a test I populated the entire "MAT Spark Advance Compensation vs. MAP vs. Temperature" table with -10 degrees, and drove the truck. My timing showed the same as what is in my Main Spark tables. the ECM never pulled any timing base on MAT. I am trying to figure out whats going on. I did find a flag that the CPI bins have set that the TBI does not, that has to do with the MAT, I tried both ways, didn't make a difference. Its at 442F "LD SELECT, ( 0 = VACUUM 1 = RPM) MAT". Could it be something with the Negative or Positive multipliers?

[96lt4c4]

I just noticed the CPI bins do not have anything in the Main spark bias? They are zeroed out.

[CFI Z51]

Cool build...wish i could help..
I did notice you had a malf code 25 Mat HI set in the log, I don't know if this would cause the mat compensation not to run..or when it was set.
as for the biases and how they all play together :mad1:

[96lt4c4]

Cool build...wish i could help..
I did notice you had a malf code 25 Mat HI set in the log, I don't know if this would cause the mat compensation not to run..or when it was set.
as for the biases and how they all play together :mad1:


Huh....I didn't even notice that. I don't have a SES light. I will take a look at it. I zerod out the MAin Spark Bias, which I knew would screw up my timing tables. So I copied them first, zeroed the bias, saved, then copied the table back in. Set it up like the CPI bin. I don't think it did anything.

I don't know where everyone is on this forum lately, I am hearing a lot of crickets chirping. Sometimes I wonder if I am one of the only ones left messing with these old PCM's. Probably should have upgraded the 411 LS1 computer and use my HP Tuners.

[PJG1173]

I don't know where everyone is on this forum lately, I am hearing a lot of crickets chirping. Sometimes I wonder if I am one of the only ones left messing with these old PCM's. Probably should have upgraded the 411 LS1 computer and use my HP Tuners.

I don't think its lack of people on the site, its a shortage of people who know enough to help on the more advanced topics. I have been watching some of these threads as I am interested in using the MAT also when I go to MPFI.

[brian617]

Every time the MAT subject comes up on here it goes about 4-5 post then dies. I'd really like to get in working in my truck but the first time I tried it my BLMs went nuts. Wish I had time to figure it out...

[96lt4c4]

I don't think its lack of people on the site, its a shortage of people who know enough to help on the more advanced topics. I have been watching some of these threads as I am interested in using the MAT also when I go to MPFI.

Yeah, I thought about that too....I guess I am in uncharted territory here...LOL. Might take me a while to figure it out. Not sure why I am throwing a code and the light is not coming on though. The sensor seems to be working and reading air temp. Maybe that code 25 is part of my problem.

[96lt4c4]

Every time the MAT subject comes up on here it goes about 4-5 post then dies. I'd really like to get in working in my truck but the first time I tried it my BLMs went nuts. Wish I had time to figure it out...

I have not seen that. Do you have a MAT or IAT? I have a MAT in the intake.

[CFI Z51]

I know when i switched last fall from a 7747 to the 7427 on my tbi vette i had to 0 the altitude bias in order to get the timing table anywhere near reasonable ,(missing 10* degrees of timing.. ) 30*in the bin(and dash) only read 20ish* on the crank, the timing light doesn't lie.

Also i dont see pe timing added to tunerpro dash or history tables in my logs.? pretty sure its working , pings if i add more then 4*, no knock sensor..

All im saying... you wont know for sure untill you put a light on it.

FYI Im a noob when it comes to EFI ...no experience with tuning mat...but been turning wrenches for 30 years.


(funny you say old PCM its worlds ahead of the 7747 that ive tuned in the past)

[brian617]

Using the diesel IAT in the #8 runner wet manifold TBI.

[JeepsAndGuns]

I added a MAT to mine (7427, mpfi) but I could never really get it to do anything worthwhile. I copied in the CPI parameters and fiddled around with them some, but most of the time, it never really did anything. It seems like for some reason I was having some type of issue that went away when I disabled it. So I just left it disabled and said heck with it. Its still installed in my intake and hooked up, can even still see the temp in the data stream, I just have it disabled in the bin.

Like said above, your probably in uncharted territory, as I do not think many people have fooled around with adding a MAT to the 7427 non cpi bins.

[1BadAction]

Well, I've kinda given up on the "old" PCMs myself because of shit like this. They are supposed to do something and don't, or the results are the opposite of expected. I know if this gen VI timing cover fits on my gen V like I believe it will, I'm going to retrofit cam and crank sensors in and run a full sequential coil on plug setup.

[96lt4c4]

Well, I've kinda given up on the "old" PCMs myself because of shit like this. They are supposed to do something and don't, or the results are the opposite of expected. I know if this gen VI timing cover fits on my gen V like I believe it will, I'm going to retrofit cam and crank sensors in and run a full sequential coil on plug setup.

Did you ever figure out while your 80E was shifting soft? I built a 4L80E for a buddy of mine. It was a 91 model tranny, and he was going to run it on a LS1 PCM in his 68 Camaro, LS2 402 Stroker. Installed the tranny and shifted soft, checked line pressure and it would not go over 150 psi. The problem is in 1994 they changed the Force Motor Solenoid and valve body, it is not compatible with the older electronics, vice versa, new electronic not compatible with old solenoid, which would be the case in your setup. We changed the valve body and Force Motor to a 94 version. Fixed it, firm shifts, line pressure shot up to over 250-275 psi.

Off topic but thought I would mention that, so if you go to the LS1 style PCM, on your 91 4L80E, it will still shift soft, until you change the valve body. You can not just change the solenoid either. They operate at different frequencies.

[1project2many]

Part of the reason you get unexpected results is because the code in the 7427 is more complex than the simpler machines like the 747. This complexity increases on an order of magnitude when you get to OBDII and I can promise there are plenty of cases floating around where a newer pcm doesn't do as expected, either.

Sorry for the crickets. You're not the only one left playing with the old pcm's. I just don't have the time that I used to.

CPI trucks use air temp as a compensation. IAT or MAT, it's really no different from the ecm perspective. Sensor generates data, code responds (or doesn't). First, ensure the air temp sensor code is not a current code. ECM will fall back to default temp if there's an error. Then look for minimum temps to enable / disable compensation, or timers that have to expire before compensation begins. Are you certain that the definition file you're using is configured to display timing correctly? Did you notice any performance changes?

Quick edit: It looks like there may be two tables for MAT spark correction. One is a $44A4 and one is at $4493. Not sure how they work... hac says one is negative advance and one is positive. Also a table ID'ed as "base MAT SPK ADV CORR" at $442F. Data obtained at $0041, bit 1 will indicate if MAT spark correction is negative or positive... can be viewed in data stream by altering definition file.

[PJG1173]

Well, I've kinda given up on the "old" PCMs myself because of shit like this. They are supposed to do something and don't, or the results are the opposite of expected. I know if this gen VI timing cover fits on my gen V like I believe it will, I'm going to retrofit cam and crank sensors in and run a full sequential coil on plug setup.

If I could afford it I would be right there with you, but until then I gots what I got....

[96lt4c4]

Part of the reason you get unexpected results is because the code in the 7427 is more complex than the simpler machines like the 747. This complexity increases on an order of magnitude when you get to OBDII and I can promise there are plenty of cases floating around where a newer pcm doesn't do as expected, either.

Sorry for the crickets. You're not the only one left playing with the old pcm's. I just don't have the time that I used to.

CPI trucks use air temp as a compensation. IAT or MAT, it's really no different from the ecm perspective. Sensor generates data, code responds (or doesn't). First, ensure the air temp sensor code is not a current code. ECM will fall back to default temp if there's an error. Then look for minimum temps to enable / disable compensation, or timers that have to expire before compensation begins. Are you certain that the definition file you're using is configured to display timing correctly? Did you notice any performance changes?

My tune is based off of the stock bin that came with the truck. 1994 TBI BJLF $0D. The base timing is set to zero and has been verified at idle with an adjustable timing light. The only initial performance changes I noticed when enabling the MAT was that, the truck fell on its face under boost from going extremely rich due to the MAT & CTS Blend Multiplier vs. Airflow table. I copied the table out of a stock CPI bin. The fix was to just enter all 1's in the table to make the PCM bias ECT instead of MAT. I think this would only have an effect on AFR and not timing, I may be wrong. I plan on looking at this again later, but for right now its working. The truck's VE tables are pretty close and I am getting the AFR I am commanding in the PE AFR table, under WOT, via my wide-band/boost controller.

I am 99% sure the timing I am logging and commanding is what the motor is seeing. I added a degree to the PE timing table, and the log shows 1 degree added to my timing table during PE. The test that I tried with the -10 degrees in the entire MAT Spark Advance Compensation vs. MAP vs. Temperature table did not pull any timing at all anywhere and did not change performance. Thats one of the reasons I used -10, because I knew I would be able to feel it happen but nothing changed. I may start looking back through the hack to see if I can find something that has been missed.

You are right about that code, when I noticed the overly rich condition and suspected the MAT, I unplugged it and the truck ran great, so that may be an old code.

There are the 2 MAT Spark multiplier, Neagtive and Postive, tables. The way I understand these are, there has to be a value in the table for the MAT Spark Advance Compensation vs. MAP vs. Temperature table to work. So if the negative and positive tables are zeroed out, it basically deactivates the MAT Spark Advance Compensation vs. MAP vs. Temperature table. So I have all 1's in from 55 KPA up to 100 KPA. Which in my case is actually 100 KPA up to 200 KPA, 2 BAR MAP for boost. I need to change my .xdf to show this. I have been trying to change tables to show the 2 BAR MAP readings as I come across them, just have not done these yet.

[1project2many]

It sounds like MAT is being used by the code so the question is why isn't spark changing. Check the two additional tables I mentioned. Are they included in your definition file? I haven't had a chance to try and work out how they are actually used but I'm sure they matter.

[1BadAction]

Did you ever figure out while your 80E was shifting soft?
I changed the voltage curve in the force motor tables to get the pressures in line with what was being commanded. I have about 15 thousand miles on it like that and works perfect.

IF (a big if) I do decide to go late model ECM/Trans control, I would either do it in conjunction with a fresh 80e and a triple disc converter, or the most likely scenario is I would use a MS3 Pro for engine control and a microsquirt trans controller, the microsquirt can be adjusted for any of the 80s, and can also be used to control up to an 8 speed, which would allow me to swap to an 8L90 in the future. The only thing I don't like about aftermarket is the fact that if one shits the bed, I'll be waiting a few days minimum to get another. That could be a huge problem if I'm somewhere away from home, and my truck is a driver not a weekend track vehicle.


Part of the reason you get unexpected results is because the code in the 7427 is more complex than the simpler machines like the 747. This complexity increases on an order of magnitude when you get to OBDII and I can promise there are plenty of cases floating around where a newer pcm doesn't do as expected, either.

Correct, but with a late model controller, you're paying for it to be supported by HPTuners and EFILive, there is no time where you are out hanging by yourself. If you have an issue all it takes is to ask there, and those guys will give you rock solid info, or they will take the time to figure it out. This isn't a bash against the guys who keep these old boxes alive and viable, I'm just saying that sometimes it gets old being 100% on your own with something that should be really simple.


If I could afford it I would be right there with you, but until then I gots what I got....

I figure its a lot cheaper than a new truck and can do the jobs I ask it without breaking a sweat. I hope to get paint on it before the winter rolls around but not sure if I'll have the time. I doubt I'll ever sell it after its painted.

[Nasty-Z]

I know if this gen VI timing cover fits on my gen V like I believe it will, I'm going to retrofit cam and crank sensors in and run a full sequential coil on plug setup.

It will not , even after drilling and tapping the 6 holes for the Gen VI cover (which can be done) , it will put the front seal in a different position than the Gen V cover . Some have grafted portions of a Gen VI pan to the Gen V pan to make it work , but it is a time consuming task.

Short of swapping to a gen VI block or aftermarket , there are these fine folks : http://www.eficonnection.com , but they seem to base everything on a Gen VI setup.


TOM

[bybyc5]

Every time the MAT subject comes up on here it goes about 4-5 post then dies. I'd really like to get in working in my truck but the first time I tried it my BLMs went nuts. Wish I had time to figure it out...

I'm guilty of this. :innocent2: I am wanting to add this to my 93 K1500 too. I see a post or two, and no real progress, then nothing. What searches I have done have been weak.

Any particular MAT sensor part number better than others?

[1project2many]

Correct, but with a late model controller, you're paying for it to be supported by HPTuners and EFILive, there is no time where you are out hanging by yourself. If you have an issue all it takes is to ask there, and those guys will give you rock solid info, or they will take the time to figure it out. This isn't a bash against the guys who keep these old boxes alive and viable, I'm just saying that sometimes it gets old being 100% on your own with something that should be really simple.

I can understand this. I'm used to being on my own so I guess I don't really think about it. It's good to get support when you need it.

[brian617]

I'm guilty of this. :innocent2: I am wanting to add this to my 93 K1500 too. I see a post or two, and no real progress, then nothing. What searches I have done have been weak.

Any particular MAT sensor part number better than others?

I used a 95 model 6.5L Diesel IAT.

[96lt4c4]

It sounds like MAT is being used by the code so the question is why isn't spark changing. Check the two additional tables I mentioned. Are they included in your definition file? I haven't had a chance to try and work out how they are actually used but I'm sure they matter.

Yes it looks like I have all those addresses populated in my .xdf file. I added the switch at $442f bit 1. The CPI bins had this set, TBI did not. I set it in my bin, still did not work.

[brian617]

My question has always been, what numbers go in this table? I understand it as a blend percentage, but what number is 100% MAT and what number is 100% CTS.

[96lt4c4]

My question has always been, what numbers go in this table? I understand it as a blend percentage, but what number is 100% MAT and what number is 100% CTS.

Its kind of hard to explain, but this is the way I understand it. The air moving through the intake at low speed, low air flow, has more time in the intake to heat soak and becomes the same temp as the ECT. As air flow increases, the air has less time to heat soak in the intake as it moves through, so you would in theory want the PCM to bias more toward the MAT sensor, while calculating AFR. This number is a multiplier I have all 1's in it currently, anything less than 1 will richen the mixture up.

Edit--I think I told you guys wrong here. Because of code 25 being set, the PCM was using -40 C as the intake air temp all the time. So this is the reason I was going extremely rich with anything other than 1 in this table. So 1 gives all control to the ECT and 0 gives all control to MAT. This is why anything lower than 1 in my tune at all was way rich, PCM using -40 C as temp to calculate fuel.

[1BadAction]

It will not , even after drilling and tapping the 6 holes for the Gen VI cover (which can be done) , it will put the front seal in a different position than the Gen V cover . Some have grafted portions of a Gen VI pan to the Gen V pan to make it work , but it is a time consuming task.

Short of swapping to a gen VI block or aftermarket , there are these fine folks : http://www.eficonnection.com , but they seem to base everything on a Gen VI setup.


TOM
:sad: guess the next step is to cut up the cast aluminum vortec cover and graft it on a cast GenV cover, or buy the distributor adapter and external reluctor.

[brian617]

Its kind of hard to explain, but this is the way I understand it. The air moving through the intake at low speed, low air flow, has more time in the intake to heat soak and becomes the same temp as the ECT. As air flow increases, the air has less time to heat soak in the intake as it moves through, so you would in theory want the PCM to bias more toward the MAT sensor, while calculating AFR. This number is a multiplier I have all 1's in it currently, anything less than 1 will richen the mixture up.

I understand airflow the same way, its the numbers (multipler) that doesnt make any sense to me. Example, how would you know how fast your'e going if your speedometer used chinese numbers lol. If anything less than one will richen the mixture, would numbers above 1 lean it out?

[brian617]

I understand airflow the same way, its the numbers (multipler) that doesnt make any sense to me. Example, how would you know how fast your'e going if your speedometer used chinese numbers lol. If anything less than one will richen the mixture, would numbers above 1 lean it out?

:mad1:

This is hurting my brain, but I think if 1 is no blend from CTS to MAT and 0 is all MAT control? A number less than 1 wouldnt necessarily richen the mixture but give more control to the MAT which is typically cooler than the CTS. That sound right? Is 1-0 the only range of numbers?

[96lt4c4]

:mad1:

This is hurting my brain, but I think if 1 is no blend from CTS to MAT and 0 is all MAT control? A number less than 1 wouldnt necessarily richen the mixture but give more control to the MAT which is typically cooler than the CTS. That sound right? Is 1-0 the only range of numbers?

I have not tried anything over 1, I think the issue I am having is that a turbo really heats the air up, even though I have an intercooler, I am probably still ingesting hotter air than an NA motor. I am seeing what I am comanding on my wideband so I am not really interested in going any richer than 11 - 11.5:1 AFR. I tried scaling the table from 1 at low air flow down to .75 at max air flow and it was still going pretty rich. You will just have to play around with it and see what works.

[brian617]

I have not tried anything over 1, I think the issue I am having is that a turbo really heats the air up, even though I have an intercooler, I am probably still ingesting hotter air than an NA motor. I am seeing what I am comanding on my wideband so I am not really interested in going any richer than 11 - 11.5:1 AFR. I tried scaling the table from 1 at low air flow down to .75 at max air flow and it was still going pretty rich. You will just have to play around with it and see what works.

What kind of intake air temps are you seeing under boost?

[96lt4c4]

What kind of intake air temps are you seeing under boost?

Depends how hot it is outside, most I have seen so far is 160*F. Its been pretty cool here for the last couple weeks so they have been running in the 100-120 degree range. I just installed a Meth Injection kit so that will help cool them down under boost. Have not had a chance to run it yet.

This truck has become a plumbing nightmare..LOL

As far as the "Old PCM" comment. It really is amazing what I have been able to do with the stock PCM in this truck. For what it is, its a really powerful PCM that allows you to do a lot of stuff. For one I do not know of anyone running one with boost and a 2 bar map. I was told it could not be done, or that it would be hard to make it work. I have been messing with this thing since February and I have it running great, granted I had to build a new motor, but just learned the hard way.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/IMAG1232_zps6xrpsnlm.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/tapyz250/media/IMAG1232_zps6xrpsnlm.jpg.html)

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/IMAG1230_zpsqv3bk3vm.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/tapyz250/media/IMAG1230_zpsqv3bk3vm.jpg.html)

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/IMAG1234_zpsfxndomih.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/tapyz250/media/IMAG1234_zpsfxndomih.jpg.html)

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/IMAG1235_zpsguvz9puy.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/tapyz250/media/IMAG1235_zpsguvz9puy.jpg.html)

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/IMAG1233_zpsb3799pws.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/tapyz250/media/IMAG1233_zpsb3799pws.jpg.html)

[bybyc5]

Wow. Nice work. Way to stick with it and get it done! Just how much boost are you able to get?
One really nice feature with these older Chevy's is plenty of room under the hood!! Unlike many other vehicles...like our F-Bodies..Ha Ha. At least the corvettes have a fold up front cap.

Kudos :rockon:

[96lt4c4]

Wow. Nice work. Way to stick with it and get it done! Just how much boost are you able to get?
One really nice feature with these older Chevy's is plenty of room under the hood!! Unlike many other vehicles...like our F-Bodies..Ha Ha. At least the corvettes have a fold up front cap.

Kudos :rockon:

Thanks, right now I am at 8 psi, just changed my waste gate springs, should go up to around 10 now. I wont go any higher than 15 when its all said and done. There are guys getting 15 on 6 liter LS motors with this same turbo. Its a blast to drive on 8 pounds, talk about a sleeper...LOL. Yeah this may be my Guinea pig for my F Body. If I do decide to turbo the Camaro, it will get twins, on E85, should make 1000 HP no problem.

I think I found my problem, was looking through the hack last night and found about 5 MAT thresholds that need to be changed in order to keep code 25 from setting. There is a HI Temp setting that will set code 25, which in my stock TBI bin is set to -40 degrees C. Which in turn effects the Default MAT temp if error 23/25 setting, which is set to -40 degrees as well. So since I have code 25 set, the PCM is using -40 C for MAT calculations. Changing this to match a CPI or 4 cylinder s-10 bin should fix it.

Here is a screen shot, and I attached an updated .xdf file below. Hopefully this works and can help others who want to add MAT.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m232/tapyz250/MAT%20update_zpsn5allffm.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/tapyz250/media/MAT%20update_zpsn5allffm.jpg.html)

[1project2many]

Good work finding these. I caught something yesterday and ended up spending all night shivering under blankets.


So since I have code 25 set, the PCM is using -40 C for MAT calculations.

I thought you said you could see MAT on the scantool? You would see -40C if it went to default temp.

[96lt4c4]

Good work finding these. I caught something yesterday and ended up spending all night shivering under blankets.



I thought you said you could see MAT on the scantool? You would see -40C if it went to default temp. That is true, the MAT shows the correct temp. If you download and watch a little bit of the log I posted in the first post, you can see that code 25 is set, but the MAT is still showing the correct temperature. Maybe that's why I have no light on...LOL. Either way my bin is set to -40 C as the "HI" temp that would set 25, so I know for sure that is not right. We will have to see what happens when I get a chance to change it, and drive it. Hopefully this is the fix.

[96lt4c4]

Its fixed! That did it. I am going to have to go back and look at the CTS and MAT blend table.

I think I told you guys wrong here. Because of code 25 being set, the PCM was using -40 C as the intake air temp all the time. So this is the reason I was going extremely rich with anything other than 1 in this table. So 1 gives all control to the ECT and 0 gives all control to MAT. This is why anything lower than 1 in my tune at all was way rich, PCM using -40 C as temp to calculate fuel.

Just looking around and found a thread on Fullsize chevy talking about adding MAT.

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/general-discussion/performance/tbi-tuning-87-95-obd-i-ecm-pcm/274292-installing-iat-sensor-7.html

Basically anybody that has added MAT to a TBI bin, and did not fix the code 25 issue, is not getting correct fueling.

[brian617]

Its fixed! That did it. I am going to have to go back and look at the CTS and MAT blend table.

I think I told you guys wrong here. Because of code 25 being set, the PCM was using -40 C as the intake air temp all the time. So this is the reason I was going extremely rich with anything other than 1 in this table. So 1 gives all control to the ECT and 0 gives all control to MAT. This is why anything lower than 1 in my tune at all was way rich, PCM using -40 C as temp to calculate fuel.

Just looking around and found a thread on Fullsize chevy talking about adding MAT.

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/general-discussion/performance/tbi-tuning-87-95-obd-i-ecm-pcm/274292-installing-iat-sensor-7.html

Basically anybody that has added MAT to a TBI bin, and did not fix the code 25 issue, is not getting correct fueling.

That does sound like the problem, now I have to figure out how to add those items to my XDF

[96lt4c4]

That does sound like the problem, now I have to figure out how to add those items to my XDF

I did it for you man! A couple posts up. My .xdf is setup for boost, but you can still use it to change the settings in your .bin file.

[brian617]

Thats cheating lol. I'd like to learn how.

Catch a fish for a man and he can have one meal, teach him how to fish and he wont go hungry?

[brian617]

I'm also using $OE, so locations are different.

[1project2many]

Hmm... I still haven't had time to look at the logs. I'm surprised the ecm was sending actual MAT on the ALDL but using a different value internally. That's not typical behavior.


Catch a fish for a man and he can have one meal, teach him how to fish and he wont go hungry?

Not quite. There's the gear and tackle, the bass boat and trailer, the truck to haul the trailer, electronic gadgets, videos, club memberships and numerous other expenses. But it does generate some good stories!

[96lt4c4]

Hmm... I still haven't had time to look at the logs. I'm surprised the ecm was sending actual MAT on the ALDL but using a different value internally. That's not typical behavior.



Not quite. There's the gear and tackle, the bass boat and trailer, the truck to haul the trailer, electronic gadgets, videos, club memberships and numerous other expenses. But it does generate some good stories!

It is definitely working now, as far as timing goes. I am going to start with the CPI Blend table and see what happens to my AFR. ON the drive in to work this morning I still had it set to all 1's. If it goes back to being way rich then I will know.

I just thought of something, me being the anal guy that I am, checked error 23 and 25 in my bin. I am wondering if you left those off, but still turned on the MAT, if this issue would even come up. A good possibility that most guys just turn on the MAT and do not mess with the error codes?

[brian617]

It is definitely working now, as far as timing goes. I am going to start with the CPI Blend table and see what happens to my AFR. ON the drive in to work this morning I still had it set to all 1's. If it goes back to being way rich then I will know.

I'm curious, if you give MAT full control of fuel, what tables are now responsible for adjusting fuel?

[96lt4c4]

I'm curious, if you give MAT full control of fuel, what tables are now responsible for adjusting fuel?

The 4 cylinder s-10 bin pretty much does just that. The CPI 4.3 gives more to ECT around idle and blends down to MAT. I read the thread on fullsize chevy about giving MAT full control, which with my setup sounds ideal, MPFI with MAT in the intake.

[brian617]

I tried that link, no worky.

[brian617]

Can anyone show me how to change those parameters in HEX, or show me how to add them the my XDF? Or add them to my XDF for me lol.

[CFI Z51]

Can't help with HEX :mad1:,
Shouldn't be to hard to do in tunerpro though..
first i would open two instances of TP,one with each XDF open ,save yours with new name (in case we screw this up),
right click on new scaler in parameter tree in $0D xdf - copy to clipboard- right click parameter tree in your XDF -paste from clipboard into your xdf, do this for all including the err 23/25 header
now goto the $0E hack ,you will need to change address for each parameter..right click-edit parameter in xdf..
example; address in pasted scaler for mph will be 0x4E3D it will need to be changed to 0x4E45
$0E
;------------------------
; ERR 23/25
; (ERR 23 MAT SENSOR LOW)
; (ERR 25 MAT SENSOR HIGH)
;------------------------
L4E43 FCB 0 ; ENG RUN TIME ....... ? bummer ..not needed.?
L4E44 FCB 240 ; 240 SEC RUN TIME TO ENABLE ERR ........from L4E3B to L4E44
; CAL = SEC'S
;
L4E45 FCB 1 ; 1 MPH ....... ..........................................from L4E3D to L4E45 ..0x4E3D in pasted scaler to 0x4E45
L4E46 FCB 29 ; -18c, DEFAULT MAT VAL ........................from L4E3E to L4E46

;------------------------
; ERR 25
; MAT SENSOR HIGH
;------------------------
L4E47 FCB 243 ; 142c MAT HI BINARY THRESH (INV VAL) ......you get idea.
L4E48 FCB 120 ; 12 Sec, THRESH FOR ERR 25 ......
; sec * 10
;---------------------------------------------


$0D

;------------------------
; ERR 23/25
;------------------------
L4E3B FDB 0000 ; 0000 SEC RUN TIME TO ENABLE ERR
; CAL = SEC'S
;
L4E3D FCB 0 ; 0 MPH, MIN FOR ERR 25 ELSE ERR 23
L4E3E FCB 0 ; -40c, DEFAULT MAT IF ERR 23/25
;----------------------------------------------

;----------------------------------------------
; ERR 25
;
;----------------------------------------------
L4E3F FCB 0 ; -40c, MAT HI THRESH FOR ERR 25
L4E40 FCB 0 ; 0 Sec, THRESH FOR ERR 25
; SEC * 10
;----------------------------------------------

should work...i think ? .. been awhile..


Hope this helps


also saw this in the hac ...you may want to add it ?




;--------------------------------------------------
; MAT vs INTEMEDIATE MAT or vs COOLANT TEMP
;
; Dissassemby of BJYA
;
; TBL = DEG C + 40
;--------------------------------------------------
ORG $4AEA

;--------------------------------------------------
;
; DEG C
;--------------------------------------------------
L4AEA FCB 0 ; -40
L4AEB FCB 12 ; -28
L4AEC FCB 24 ; -16
L4AED FCB 36 ; -4
L4AEE FCB 48 ; 8
L4AEF FCB 60 ; 20
L4AF0 FCB 72 ; 32
L4AF1 FCB 84 ; 44
L4AF2 FCB 96 ; 56
L4AF3 FCB 108 ; 68
L4AF4 FCB 120 ; 80
L4AF5 FCB 132 ; 92
L4AF6 FCB 144 ; 104
L4AF7 FCB 156 ; 116
L4AF8 FCB 168 ; 128
L4AF9 FCB 180 ; 140
L4AFA FCB 192 ; 152
;--------------------------------------------------

[brian617]

Thats way over my head lol, but i'll give it a try and see what gives.

[CFI Z51]

Thats way over my head lol, but i'll give it a try and see what gives.

Here is one for $0E you can compare yours to when you get it done, no peeking ....:nono: you said you wanted to learn ... :laugh:

Can anyone confirm i did this correctly ? (old dog + recent trick + bad memory = Until confirmed - Standard Disclaimer ; Use At your Own Risk )

[brian617]

Here is one for $0E you can compare yours to when you get it done, no peeking ....:nono: you said you wanted to learn ... :laugh:

I've been reading through the $0E Hack to search all the MAT tables out. Is there a simple way to explain to me how to add a parameter to TP just using the Hack? I didnt grasp the copy to clipboard idea when I still have to change the addresses for $0D to $0E. Good chance I'll peek :laugh: but i'm still going to figure this out. Thanks for helping.

[CFI Z51]

The copy an past method is just the easy way to add the new scaler ,the address change is so the scaler knows where in the bin the information is stored, different from mask to mask .
The scaler is what changes the info at that location ,it also converts it to a form we can use such mph or degrees,open any of these scalers in TP right click on it and select show hex , that's the rub..when you add one from the hac you have to have the conversion correct in the parameter or :yikes: . There should be sticky ..

[JeepsAndGuns]

I've been reading through the $0E Hack to search all the MAT tables out. Is there a simple way to explain to me how to add a parameter to TP just using the Hack? I didnt grasp the copy to clipboard idea when I still have to change the addresses for $0D to $0E. Good chance I'll peek :laugh: but i'm still going to figure this out. Thanks for helping.

Here is a good but long thread where you can learn how to add parameters to a XDF. Starts around page 2. I have almost forgotten what I learned in that thread cause I only did it once. But I'm sure another read through would give me a refresher.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?819-Looking-for-a-better-8D

[brian617]

Can someone check my work, specifically the conversions please?

[CFI Z51]

Can someone check my work, specifically the conversions please?

To check your conversions ...

L4E48 FCB 120 ; 12 Sec, THRESH FOR ERR 25 -------


your conv is.... X*10

X = 120

120 * 10 = 1200 .............................................:nono :

120/10 = 12 0r 120*.1 = 12 .................................. conv = X*.1



L4E46 FCB 29 ; -18c, DEFAULT MAT VAL ----------

your conv is....075 *X+ -40

X = 29

.75*29 = 21.75 -40 = -18.25 ......................... :thumbsup:

[brian617]

Thank you again for your help!

Here is where I got confused on that conversion (sec * 10)

[dzidaV8]

I'm digging this topic back from the dead with a little update.
I've also had problems enabling MAT in my $0D TBI. The .xdf file mentioned earlier in this topic seems non-existent, so I've modified the Advanced $0D TP5 v251.xdf adding MAT diagnostic parameters form HAC.

To admin: I think it would be good to add to $0D topic (http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?303-16197427-PCM-Information-0D).

[myburb]

When this thread first came out I was just getting started with mat. After 1.5 years with it I thought I would add what I have found. I run only open loop and used to have to run a different chip in the winter and summer. I added the mat sensor to the base of my aircleaner close to the throttlebody. I wired it into the ecm. I enabled the mat sensor. I set the blend to .85. It has been that way for two summers and a winter and no need to change chips. I could fine tune a little more if I was really really picky but it works fine. The only thing I notice is the mixture says richer slightly longer during warm up. I am $OE but it looks like the settings choices are the same in $OD.