Help with bin file

[pardegt]

I am trying to read the bin on the 7730 that is running a 350 TPI in a fiero I purchased. It is running rich (smell fuel at start up, black smoke, etc) and I want to see what the parameters are associated with afr. Previous owner indicates chip was reprogrammed by someone at some point. EGR has been deleted.

I'm a newbie at this but have tunerpro, winflash (trial), and an aldl cable. I'm not sure I can use winflash to read the bin since it has a separate memcal.

I recorded some data and included it here.

Thanks for your replies.

[sturgillbd]

To read the bin file on the 7730, you will have to have a chip programmer such as a Moates Burn2 and a memcal adapter such as a Moates HDR1. If the memcal has been modified with a flash chip, these two pieces are all you need. If your memcal still has the UV erase type EPROM, it is much easier to start tuning if you have the adapter in the third link. I will try to look at your log tomorrow.

https://www.moates.net/burn2-chip-programmer-p-197.html?cPath=94
https://www.moates.net/hdr1-memcal-header-p-52.html
https://www.moates.net/gp1-package-gm-adapter-with-2-chips-p-41.html?cPath=64

Hope this helps

[sturgillbd]

I just loaded and played your datalog. Are you sure this is a 7730 ECM. If so, what is the 4 letter BCC code on the memcal? ( ie AUJP?)

[pardegt]

Thanks sturgillbd. I will check on the memcal for the code...I take it has this printed on it? The ECM is one the previous owner installed from spareECM.com and it clearly says it is a 7730 on a case sticker. They were having a lot of codes thrown with the original Fiero ecm so they pulled their burned prom and put it in this 7730 they purchased thinking it might help...it did not.

They then put in a painless wiring harness thinking the spliced up one from the transplant tpi might have developed a short but issues still remain.

[sturgillbd]

Does the check engine light flash really fast when the key is turned on? If so, it is a problem with the program on the memcal. Pull codes by bridging A and B pin on ALDL and count code flashes on the Check engine light with key on engine off. It may be in limp mode and it will run pig rich in limp home mode. Look for a 51 code. Here is the list of DTC codes http://www.troublecodes.net/GM/90-91_578/

[pardegt]

Thanks, I'll check...it has an aftermarket check engine light next to the aldl connector.

Here's a pic of the memcal and ecm. Appears it is an AXCN memcal which is what I believe came on the stock vette 91 tpi and is what the previous owner said this tpi is from .

8939

8940

[pardegt]

Strange...the only code I get is 12 over and over.

[sturgillbd]

Code 12 is No distributor reference pulses. It won't have reference pulses until you try to start or is running. When the engine is running, does the Check engine light come on? If the light comes on, then shut off engine and pull codes. If you pull the battery terminal, any stored codes will be lost. I will try to view your log again this eve.

[sturgillbd]

Just double checked your log again. I had a brain fart the other eve and had loaded the wrong adx file. The log showed no error codes. The log you posted was short and was in open loop. Run the engine until it gets up to operating temp then start another datalog. Can the vehicle be driven around and get up to some highway speeds? If so, it will be good to see some different load conditions on the engine in the log.

[pardegt]

Sure, I will take it out in the next day or two and post a log then. Thanks.

[pardegt]

Here's a pretty good log...18 minutes worth. I started as I left the gas station and drove it to the outskirts of town and then on the highway. At about the 9:40 mark, I open it up and then get it up to highway speeds for a bit.

Thanks for taking a look for me. I'm curious what you find and the process you go about to evaluate.

[sturgillbd]

Ok. I just viewed your latest log and here is what your BLM history looks like. You may want to read this thread and it will explain what you are looking at. http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1895-Adjusting-VE-Fueling-tables-with-BLM-data-Tutorial Remember 128 = no fueling correction. Below 128, ECM is pulling fuel because it is rich. Above 128 ECM is adding fuel because it is lean. You can take your logs, play them and use the Show History Tables under Acquisition in Tuner Pro. With these tables you can copy the data into the spreadsheet here: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?394-1227727-1227730-ECM-Information-8D to correct your VE tables for fueling. Also at WOT, the ECM goes open loop and the BLM is locked at 128. You have to use a Wideband O2 to log Wide open throttle AFR. You could then program a chip with the corrections to the VE table and log again. As EagleMark would say "Rinse and repeat"

[pardegt]

Thanks sturgillbd. I really appreciate the guidance. I will take follow your instructions and see if I can improve the VE tables (I just looked up VE to understand the concept). Once I improve them, how critical is it to capture AFR at WOT as I don't know when I will get a wideband O2?

So, based on your knowledge and my log info, is there any certainty that the memcal is incorrectly programmed versus there being a mechanical issue causing the condition?

Again, thanks much for your help.

[sturgillbd]

At WOT the true afr will not be known without a wideband. It just looks like it is overall rich except in the 2000 rpm and 30-40 map cells. Have you got a burner and adapter yet? From the looks of the memcal, it appears to be stock unless they have peeled the sticker, UV erased and put the sticker back. If you could read your memcal and post the bin file, we could compare it to a stock bin and see what has been changed if anything. Is the engine stock or has it had a cam change etc? Has the fuel pressure regulator been changed to an adjustable one? Is the fuel pressure in spec? Does it have stock injectors? There are several variables there that have to be known before any kind of assumption can be made. There is a ACXN bin in the $8D thread it can be compared to after you read the bin your memcal. One thing to make sure of is no vacuum leaks. Make sure there are no vacuum leaks on runners, plenum, throttle body etc. Check all vacuum hoses etc. Is the vacuum line connected to the fuel pressure regulator etc.

[pardegt]

I have not picked up the burner or adapter yet as I was not sure how far I could take this on my own. I also thought the chip had been reprogrammed from what the previous owner told me so I was unsure about the second adapter you listed above. From what I have learned, if I can grasp all the related info, I can burn a better chip that is more specific to the car than paying some one else. I have read good reviews about a local shop here where I live that has this experience but haven't contacted him yet.


The previous owner provided me the this info.

Originally, he had the engine carbed, but felt it needed more so the TPI and cam were added. Still not feeling it was up to par, the heads were then added. He indicated it did run fine in the past but it had been in storage (2007-2012) and when he took it out a few years ago it starting running rich. The gas tank and fuel system were cleaned and the TPS replaced due to a cracked housing. The painless wiring harness was put it thinking the spliced in corvette one had a short but that did not help.

350 built by local engine builder .040 over
Pistons and compression ratio unknown
Comp cam p/n 12-402-4 (212 intake, 218 exhuast at .050, 114 lobe sep)
Dart Iron Eagle 10120010 heads (72cc, 180cc intake)
1991 Corvette TPI with TPIS throttle body
Painless wiring harness
EGR delete

I checked the MAP sensor and found a brief dead spot so replaced it but that did not help either. Vacuum is a bit low at 15-18 so I did a smoke test and the only place I saw any was coming out was the center of the TPIS throttle body between the plates...normal? There was also a little around the throttle linkage so maybe an o-ring or seal needs to be replaced there. The fuel pressure is at 40 with pump on, 38 at idle, and slowly bleeds off with the pump off (around 5-10 after 5 minutes)...normal I believe. I don't know what the injectors are, previous owner thought stock so I'm guessing they are 19 or 22lb. They are gray bodied with no markings so maybe Multecs? I thought maybe the fuel regulator was the culprit but there is no fuel that shows up in the connected vacuum line. I have an adjustable holley waiting to go in.

[sturgillbd]

I believe your engine is ok mechanically. The vacuum being lower than stock is more than likely because of the cam. With the lower vacuum signal, the ecm thinks the engine is under load and it is adding more fuel. On the screen grabs I posted, notice the idle vacuum likes to hang around 45kPa. I believe you need a good tune. One thing to ask the previous owner is if he had the injectors serviced before you acquired the car. If it sat that long, there may be some "varnish" from where the injectors sat with stale gasoline in them. The smoke coming around the throttle shaft means there is some wear there. The smoke coming out the middle is probably coming out the IAC passage where the IAC valve was open for the next start.
Hope this helps
Brian

[pardegt]

Thanks for the input...it does help. I don't believe he pulled the injectors, just ran some inj cleaner through the system but I will see if he remembers. Could the same be true for the fuel pump? He said he dropped the tank, cleaned it and installed a new filter.

i was wondering what to do about the injectors since I don't know what they are for sure or how good they are performing. Someone else suggested I use a cleaning procedure they saw a video for which includes hooking up a 12v supply and connecting a syringe sealed with an o-ring to the injector filled with inj cleaner and fuel. I have also heard of getting them matched. Someone on a Fiero forum suggested I go with 21lb ford injectors as they would be well matched for this setup.

[sturgillbd]

It would be better to start tuning with clean, known good injectors. How long does it take for the fuel pressure to bleed off on the rail after the fuel pump cycles on then off? Here is an article that has the pressures and the bleed down info. http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/1304-1991-chevy-corvette-fuel-pressure/ I own a factory service manual for the 1991 camaro but it is loaned out at the moment. From what I remember in reading the manual, the article link info is fairly accurate. Should be around 43 with pump running and engine off. It shouldn't bleed off pressure very fast. If it is bleeding off pressure too quickly, an injector or injectors are leaking into the ports or the internal fuel pump check valve is leaking back into the tank. You already said you pulled the vacuum line off the regulator and no fuel came out. One other possibility is the regulator seat area is dirty and allowing fuel pressure to bypass down the return line. Vehicles being parked for a long time is hard on the fuel system components. All of these issues should be addressed before tuning. Make sure the ignition system is in good shape. Inspect plugs, wires, dist cap and rotor. Replace as needed.

[pardegt]

That's a great link, I will check for leaking as the fuel pressure bleeds off to around 5-10psi after 5 mins.

Doesn't my temps seem low? I know it has a 4-core rad and the fan is wired to always run. It does go into closed loop so maybe it's fine.

[pardegt]

I was just doing some reading on injectors and now wonder if these 19-22lb injectors I have are too small. This link http://mustangpartstech.com/FuelInjectorMath.html seems to indicated I should run 30lb but other reading I have done seems like people go a lot with the ford 24lb.

[sturgillbd]

As for the previous question about temps... In that log, the coolant temp sensor shows between 200 and 212F for the majority of the log. Injector size needed is going to be determined by the HP the engine makes. There is a calculator here http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php . The LT1 engines I have came with 24lb injectors. 5.7 LT1 engines were rated around 275-300 HP. 5.7 TPI engines were rated between 230-250 HP as stock.

[pardegt]

Huh...okay cool on the temps...when I glanced at the screen a few times while driving it showed 98 degrees. Maybe it was in C. Temp gage in the car never climbs above 100 but I'm not sure it's reading correctly.

Yeah, not knowing what the hp of my engine really is, I'm now guessing 21 or 22 lb is probably a good fit.

[sturgillbd]

Here is a screenshot of the dash with your log playing. I am quite surprised you haven't viewed your own log data in TunerPro.

[pardegt]

I guess I'm still learning and trying to figure it out. When I tried to look at the dashboard before it didn't give me any data so I just played it on the default screen. I will work with it more as I didn't have much time this weekend other than to find out I have a dead battery.

[pardegt]

How do you get the dashboard to look like that? Mine just shows throttle position voltage...probably the default I imagine.

[sturgillbd]

Im probably using a better defined adx file than you are. This one has a lot of improvements in it by JeepsandGuns. I found it in one of the threads here a while back when I was helping a buddy on his rock crawler.

[pardegt]

I should be getting my Burn2 and adapter in the next day or so to capture the bin on the chip I have.

[pardegt]

Ok, I pulled the memcal am now trying to figure out how to plug into the HDR1 adapter and then into Burn2. The memcal has a single long header that is twice as long as the adapter. Burn2's soocket is also longer that than the adapter. I'm not sure how it all goes together.

The blue cover on the memcal does have writing on it saying axcn modz - vats, egr detele.

[sturgillbd]

The HDR1 plugs in on the Eprom side of the memcal. I just use header pins to read the memcal but it connects the same way. Hopefully these pics will help you out. The notch end of the eprom is towards the outside of the memcal.

[pardegt]

Thanks...got it...I attached the bin from my chip.

I downloaded the vette AXCN bin from the $8D thread but can't seem to get it to show me the comparison. I think I may have turned off a view and can't seem to get it back as the left side of the screen, the parameter tree, is blank. I remember there being a bunch of data there when I first installed tunerpro and was playing with it.