Micro-mini startup Guide for Beginners

[historystamp]

How to use TurnerPro RT as a ScanTool on your GM OBD1 car.

TurnerPro Rt is a great piece of Software. I have started using the software to read the car's diagnostic information.

Here is a quick overview on how to acquire the diagnostic information from your car's computer.

1) Go over to Mr. Toates or Aldl site and buy the appropriate cable.
http://www.moates.net/
http://www.aldlcable.com/

build your own; seems to be for PC serial com port.
http://www.akmcables.com/assembly.htm

2) Find your ECM in your car. Mine was to the right of the glove compartment. It's likely to be a silver box. Write down the number. I took a picture of the ECM number on the sticker. I could route the image on my computer to make reading the number easier.

3) Find the various serial numbers used to identify the configuration table for TurnerPro that you need.

Download BCC lookup.xls table from the Internet. It will provide you lots of info on your ECM, in particular the platform and engine type codes used to identify the tables you need.
http://www.ihonlynorth.com/forums/attachments/fuel-injection/9958d1274202604-faq-parts-required-bcc-lookup.xls

googling for BCC lookup.xls will find the file.

Also, Moates Hardware Selection Guide.xls
http://support.moates.net/category/troubleshooting/
scroll down to Hardware Application Guide. May not be available anymore.

4) Find which ALDL datastream your ECM uses.

4.a) Use EagleMark's TunerPro XDF and ADX Look up excel file. It's a download in this thread.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?499-TunerPro-XDF-and-ADX-lookup-Project


4.b) An alternative is to do the search yourself. See GM's OBD1 data streams
ftp://diy-efi.org/pub/gmecm/ALDLstuff.zip
(ftp://diy-efi.org/pub/gmecm/ALDLstuff.zip)
After downloading folder, start by reading the "readme_aldl.txt" file.

4.c) For a do it yourself example, see #8 and #10:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?484-TunerPro-Rt-used-as-a-scan-tool

5) Here are some instructions for TurnerPro RT beginners!
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-modifications/1298009-tunerpro-rt-v5-tutorial.html

6) How to operate TurnerPro RT
6.a) How to setup the dashboard in TunerPro RT.
http://forum.tunerpro.net/viewtopic.php?t=2094&highlight=obdii+adx

6.b) How to log scan data to a file
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?412-TurnerPro-logging-How-do-I-do-that

6.c) How to setup a monitor -- Graph your scan data.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?413-Making-Monitors-in-TunerPro-V5-RT

R (http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?413-Making-Monitors-in-TunerPro-V5-RT)obert

[EagleMark]

That's a great start! Glad you got it all going, you did have an ECM that seems no one has made files for yet so you had a harder time than most.

But!

We also have a lot of that stuff here:
http://gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/

ALDL as a zip or just the ones you need here:
http://gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/def/aldl/
If you grab the INDEX.DOC at the bottom first you can find the one you need, it will open in Word, Open Office or notepad with the other .ds files.

Most of them already converted to ads files here:
http://gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/def/ads/

TunerPro also has them here:
http://tunerpro.net/gmOBDI.htm

BCC Lookup and a lot of other docs here:
http://gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/doc/

But really the best part is they are all organized by ECM/PCM here:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/forumdisplay.php?20-GM-ECM-Bins-TunerPro-Definition-Files-Wiring-Diagrams-Tuner-Info

The TunerPro starter Tutorial at LT1 is great, I wanted to do one here... it's also the only ADS ADX I can not get to work though nor can find anyone who can...
:mad1:

[EagleMark]

:thumbsup: Well here you go historystamp! It's a great idea and now we have a forum for just TunerPro Talk! :happy:

[historystamp]

"Glad you got it all going"
I know it was possible to scan car data since my car repair shop give me a sheet of paper with the basic scan info recorded on it.

Glad you created a separator TurnerPro forum.

I developed my list of information pointers to keep track of what I found as I was figuring out how to use TurnerPro RT. I asked questions about scanning in two other forums, but didn't get any replies. Glad I found a reference to this site in the official TurnerPro site. My use of TurnerPro Rt went into high gear once I found this site.


Once the coldest part of Winter sets in, I'll have more indoor time to explore TurnerPro beginner documentation.


What's the etiquette of asking questions on why my engine isn't running right? I know it's not likely to be a efi problem.


Robert

[EagleMark]

What's the etiquette of asking questions on why my engine isn't running right? I know it's not likely to be a efi problem.


RobertWe're pretty open here to discussion, just start a thread with some info of motor and issues...

[E129745]

If ECM 16196397 info is known by someone here, maybe you could point me the way.
I've searched but not found info that comes from BCC Lookup table noted above. I found Moates info with ECM 16196397, but engine size, manual vs auto trans, etc. don't match.
I guess I need to know the Data Stream Type or Definition my ECM requires, what MASK ecm#.adx file I need, where I might find that, etc.
My ECM Serial #16196397, 1995 Lumina 3.1 Engine, Port Injected, 4T60E Auto Trans-axle.
Have Tuner Pro Rt and cable from Moates in route.
I have been looking into this silicon form of engine management because I haven't been able to find someone to scan for fault codes easily (read, "get my fault codes for free). I want to establish that sensors are operating at base level of performance. If not I'll replace them. I'd love to be able to read gear-train and brake codes for this car as well.
Thank in advance to all.

[jim_in_dorris]

what BCC do you have?

[RobertISaar]

that uses the same ADX as the 93-95 3.4 and 3100 cars (but not the 94-95 3100 A-bodies).

i refer to them as the P66 V6 PCM since it's as detailed as i can get before erroniously calling it "OBD1.5".

[EagleMark]

Which is?

[E129745]

what BCC do you have?
Tag on ECM has "BLZX" let's see if I can attach a .jpg of the Tag...OK easy enough. I haven't opened the box to actually look at the chip, smaller squarish cover on top of ECM covering chip? or is that a plug recepticle cover?

Looking at "ALDLstuff.zip\INDEX.DOC" files I came up with some guesses as to Data Stream A260, (or A259 or A263? maybe?) although I don't know what to do with it if I was guessing correctly, (Looks like ABS may be A283? A284?) I tried to open the A260.DS file as DXF in TunePro RT but error message; Failed to load, obviously looking for *.XDF, ... OK duh, anyway, I thought I'd give a try...
Thanx

[RobertISaar]

Which is?

actual OBD2 units released before OBD2 was a requirement (i.e., very few if any 94 vehicles and only a handful of 95s). i can think of a couple of trucks and the 95 3800 f-bodies, beyond that, can't remember.

E129745: here is the ADX you'll need to communicate with the PCM.

[E129745]

Thanks for the .adx. Same ECM for your Monte Carlo? Do you have any other info/tid-bits?

Thanks again!!

[RobertISaar]

same ECM. was the same BCC even, for a long time. i've since been running a newer calibration though.

other info? LOTS, but i tend not to know what's important until it's specifically asked about.

[E129745]

Roger that. We'll see how things go for myself.
I definitely am fortunate to have come across someone who was able to give a positive ID on the unit I have. I have been looking and was having increasing doubts as to any success. Thanks to you, I have one less stumbling-block in my path... And you achieving 29.5 MPG from a 3.1 L is impressive in my estimation. Lets see, base MPG is listed at 18 to 20 combined city/highway, a quick calc. shows a 36% increase!! I wouldn't ask you to pull a trailer or boat because of heat, but .... I understand what is involved when re-tailoring calibrations to a normaly aspirated engines' carburation and ignition systems and getting things to run dependably and not destroy itself. Nice work!
...and thank you...

[E129745]

OK cool, received Moates "ALDU1" and cable in mail. they were very fast in sending package, nice job Moates.
I received .ADX from Robert above, thanks Robert.
Now do I need to find the .XDF I need for TunerPro RT to work or do I interconnect to ECM and TunerPro RT software will create the XDF file that I will then save? I haven't tried hooking up to car yet to see what happens. What can I expect?
Thanx

[RobertISaar]

for datalogging, XDF is not required.

[E129745]

OK.
.ADX used by TunerPro as data stream definition when logging dynamic data,
.XDF used by TunerPro as definition for static data such as BIN data. i.e., editing parameters
Sound about right?

[RobertISaar]

:thumbsup:

that's how it works.

[E129745]

Nice, now I can play...thanx Robert
and how do I create .XDF, hook up and save as?

[EagleMark]

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?466-TunerPro-starter-Tutorial!-New-users-this-is-a-must-read

[E129745]

Thanks EagleMark, absolutely have been needing that and am welcoming any more direction. The tutorial concept with files available is exactly what I am needing to getting started on the learning curve.

[E129745]

Nice, now I can play...thanx Robert
and how do I create .XDF, hook up and save as?
I'm sorry. Question looks unclear in my earlier post; Do I set-up and stream/log ECM data via TunerPro and use a "save as" function in order to create needed OEM *.bin file and same for needed *.xdf file? I am not finding either of these at the designated locations here for neither 16196397 nor BLZX chip.
If not, can you post or email to me?

[RobertISaar]

to create a BIN, you'll need a different program to read the calibration through the ALDL port.

the XDF is created based on hacking through the BIN file to see what everything does. luckily, i've already done that majority of that work as i have an XDF and probably all of the 93-95 V6 flash BINs already.

[EagleMark]

I think he does not understand it's a flash PCM and not a chip?

[E129745]

OK, I'm beginning to understand a little more. Maybe I would be better to expose my original intentions...
1995 Lumina w/ 3.1L and 4T60E trans. Stock OEM and no plans to alter engine such as cam, heads, etc. Seems to have EGR issues, but doesn't effect power, MPG, or drivability as far as I can tell. CE light may come on occasionally when decelerating on off-ramp from freeway speeds, but upon restart, CE light is off until another deceleration event. It is the expensive 3 solenoid/wire EGR valve(s).
What has recently started happening is the trans. seems to shifting too soon when accelerating and stays in gear too long when coming to a stop, almost dieing. Its difficult to distinguish between not down-shifting as it should or maybe the torque convertor lock-up is staying engaged too long. I suspect the TCC is having the issue. The brake should release TCC, but doesn't seem to be. I don't know if it uses the on/off TCC solenoid function or duty-cycle means of gradual engagement of TC.
I thought if I could see real time data I might be able to get an idea of what was or wasn't happening sensor wise and maybe get some direction as to what sensor to put a VTVM to; checking for grounds and sensor operation.
I also want to look into why my ABS light remains on. I've read that I can't effectively bleed the whole system with out manually activating solenoid valving. I wanted to see if I could access the ABS module and read fault codes and/or activate valves to at least bleed system.
Those are what my ambitions are. That is why I got ALDU1 and Cable1 from Moates and downloaded TunerPro RT v5 and why my previous questions and requests. Any ideas or direction would be greatly appreciated.
Patrick

[RobertISaar]

got it.

ABS, i built a definition for as well, but it doesn't have commands built into it for solenoid tests/etc, that information just isn't available. would need to do some port sniffing on a handheld unit that has those capabilities to do that. i also have definitions built to play with the airbag module, should you ever need to scan it. i think that's all of the modules you would have that communicate.

the 95 4T60E has 2 TCC circuits, one is on/off, the other is PWM. the on/off is the TCC itself, the TCC PWM takes over the job of the TCC accumulator and controls line pressure to the TCC.

since the shift points are entirely controlled by the shift solenoids, i would say that watching the TPS% would be the first place i would go.

[E129745]

OK, I Understood Robert. TPS volts and % look good, in Volt range, 0-100%, smooth and linear, not glitchy. I may have sticking TCC valving but, the release at 2-3 mph coming to a stop is extremely consistent and besides, when accelerating the up-shift point wouldn't occur until higher VS. I assume VS sensor is reading good, I haven't driven with PCU logging in TunerPro as I'm logging in CTW mode (cable-thru-window mode) no lap-top. Also my Speedometer reads accurate, although odometer rarely ticks tenths, maybe 20 miles in 5 years.

[RobertISaar]

hm..... had something similar happen to someone on the W-body forum last year...... he hasn't opened the trans up yet that i know of, but is expecting broken accumulator springs among a potential valve body issue.

[E129745]

hmmm, sounds suspiciously like my initial thoughts, I moved them aside with the idea to get fault codes read. Local Autozone, O'Rielly,etc couldn't get any codes out. "95 and all. And that's when I continued on down this road you found me on.
Do you think the odometer not adding distance is likely an in the dash issue? I pulled it out and cleaned the gear mechanism and lubed with very light oil, like gun oil way back 6 or so years ago and it probably worked for about a week, then went to sleep. Looks to me like the VSS sends pulses that excite the gear pinion on the odometer gear train. The pulses are causing the Speedo needle to indicate, but odometer is a no-go.
I thank you for your thoughtful time.
Patrick

[RobertISaar]

the 1.5W(95-99 monte carlo and 95-01 lumina) have odd instrument cluster issues at times....

assuming you have a tach, it probably reads quite high at times compared to what you see in the datastream.... coolant temp guage can go all stupid. fuel guage swings around like a monkey on cocaine with even the slightest bump in the road.... ABS light turning on/off on it's own, even with the ABS computer disconnected.... low coolant light doing odd things....

i've never had the odometer drive go out, nor have i seen it happen, but it doesn't really surprise me. i've studied the PCB and it does seem to be more or less directly driven off of the 4K PPM signal. the speedo being at least close to accurate would imply that the pulses exist that far in but the odometer isn't rolling, the pulses eventually get pushed into a frequency to voltage IC and the variable voltage drives the needles.

since cleaning it seems to have brought it back to life at least temporarily, i'd say doing it enough times or even replacing the "module" and adjusting the miles shown would fix it.

[E129745]

No on OEM tach. I've never seen the gauges behave erratically before, so I don't appear to have experienced the dash issues you have described. Sounds like connector continuity in that case, maybe where the wiring comes onto the PC board in the traces.
Ya, gotta love it. I remember when ECMs were first coming into vehicle management and I thought darn, when I thought I knew enough of this car stuff to just get by. Of course, if I were 20 all over now, I'd probably have a project car 25 years newer than my Olds and I'd be stuffing an LT1 into it. Instead, my car I garage and prefer to drive even to church is my `68 Olds Cutlass 350 small block, full roller cam with carb/HEI and TH400 with Vacuum Modulator for signal. I just put 800 miles an the engine/trans. It took me over 10 years to put together (10 yrs due to lack of $) And I'd never think of putting anything but 100% Olds under that hood.
Be good and Thanx
Patrick

[EagleMark]

I remember my first year at Lincoln Tech for automotive mechanic training was the first year they taught electronic ignition... no points? :yikes:

[supercoop]

patrick, ive had similar issues with my 94 olds cutl 3.4 4t60e an intermitten cel which i thought was an egr issue
my logs show a pcm b fault. all the info i have say it is either a tcc issue or could be a purge sol.
im not having any issue other than the cel so its on the back burner to fix.

on the tcc not unlocking ,could just be a bad brake sw have you tested it with an ohm meter ?
i think mine has 2 switches if i remember correctly its the one with the purple wires.
you also mentioned shift issues with the trans , you might try some lubeguard
alot of trans techs recommend it.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/LBG0/60902/N0444.oap?ck=Search_trans+additive_-1_-1&keyword=trans+additive

the 2 times ive had an abs light come on the alternator died .

ive also had issue where the rpms would stay around 1500 pulling up to a stop .
i think my cruise control was causing it . it had been in the on position turned it off an havent had any
more trouble.

also could try cleaning or replacing the iac valve.

an my odm an trip odm quit working also . mine was an issue with the trip reset push button had jammed up
took it apart and it started working again .an the milage seemed to have gotten better too :yikes:

[E129745]

Thanks supercoop for the thoughts. I know I should check into the brake switch/tcc release switch to see if it is functional. In fact you have given me the inspiration, I'll check it today. The deal with the tcc is that it seems tcc energizes too soon as I take off from stop, like it shifted into 2nd gear at near 5 mph instead of staying in 1st till say 15mph, depending on how much accelerator pedal I give it. A heavier pedal will cause the shift to occur later, but not by much. Also, the tcc is staying energized as I come to a stop, releasing just as the engine is about to stall and die. I was thinking if I knew what signals the ecm was responding to initiate tcc, I'd be better able to determine that the inputs to ecm were accurate and go from there. I did remove "TCC" fuse to help isolate problem, but as soon as I put it in gear, engine dies. Wasn't expecting that. I suspect bigger issues like wiring faults or ecm issues. I recently subscribed to ALLDATAdiy.com for the car for something like $28/year. I now have access to OEM technical data including various trouble shooting steps for anything a dealership might be faced with. Hoping to do some step by step thing through ALLDATAdiy.com and find issue(s).
Anyways, thanks for your ideas.

[RobertISaar]

the stall occuring when removing the TCC fuse may or may not be related to how the TCC solenoid is setup....

on the 4T60E, the PWM solenoid gives full line pressure to the TCC when no power is applied and the TCC is applied when given +12V....

i seem to remember the 4L60E having at least one of those backwards compared to the 4T60E, it would seem no power to the TCC may apply it?

[E129745]

Ahhh...you may be right...an elect. diagram shows TCC fuse connected to ignition... well heck, take a look at attached. The connection may well dis-allow TCC function unless Engine is running. I made a quick assumption, gets me in trouble all the time.
Thanks Robert!

[EagleMark]

I've had a couple 4T60E cars, one was a cutlass and it would stall when coming off freeway, like trans was still locked up! Tranny shop fixed it with a GM update!