My twin supercharged tbi 350 miata build

[Shawn1989]

let me catch everyone up on this.

over the past 2 years, i had been swapping a chevy 350 into a mazda miata [funds held me back, but eventually i got it done]..... caught fire in the process but it didn't stop me. i blew the engine up at the racetrack, rebuilt it, and now were are back in action with a different chassis.

SO, after slight research and talking with Dave W; i am going to be building a twin eaton m90 [thunderbird supercoupe superchargers] tbi chevy 350. The plans are to port them and if calculated correctly; should run about 18PSI. i will be running a single 2in-1out intercooler, a methonal/water injection system when the car hits boost, and e85 to TRY to prevent detonation on a 10:1 engine. chevy 350's are a dime a dozen at my pic-a-part....... so, if it blows, just gonna keep trying until we get it straightened out.

ill be running a 454 throttle body with 454 injectors, i am also running a twin belt setup..... v-belt for crank, waterpump, and power steering; then a 5-rib belt found on early vans for the alternator, waterpump, crank, and both superchargers...... i have 2 timing belt idlers from my miata that i am using for the non-ribbed side as idlers to get the belt to go where i want, then im using a tensioner somehow to obviously put tension on the belt. the superchargers have 8 rib pulleys, but the 5 rib belt fits right over them no probelm.

the engine itself is a GMPP crate 350/285-300hp...... i slapped vortec heads on during the rebuild and the shortblock is the exact same as the GMPP crate 350/330hp, so theoretically it should be the GMPP crate 350/330hp now. It's an 880 block with 4 bolt main and 1 piece RMS. The car already blows off the tires through 4th gear, but still, power is power :D time to grab some slicks lol.

The trans is a bone stock WC t5 from a v6-fbody. it's held up so far, no issues...... stock 10.5in clutch.

rear end is a stock miata 4.10 [7inch ring gear]...... it will be upgraded to a 2.8 thunderbird IRS rear with factory five racing axles, however, im going to have to relocate my lower shock mount for the axles to fit.

custom driveshaft.
custom TBI wiring.... re-worked my harness on here awhile back
PCM - 16196395 - pretty sure dave and i talked about this computer being capable of boost...... can someone please clarify?

there is a LONG road ahead, but it will all be worth it. I am shooting for 450whp.

this is my car after 2 years

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/miata2_zpsd9aaf397.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/miata2_zpsd9aaf397.jpg.html)

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/miata3_zpse12ec8e6.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/miata3_zpse12ec8e6.jpg.html)

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/miata1_zpscd9c2ffc.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/miata1_zpscd9c2ffc.jpg.html)

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/broke_zps4e57dd2e.png (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/broke_zps4e57dd2e.png.html)

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/roll_zps127391a4.png (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/roll_zps127391a4.png.html)



but i needed to get something safer, so i am building a different chassis with a roll cage; just in case.

in the meantime. enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZvIvqdXKoI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDSE2km69F8


http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/545_zps59ef29e8.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/545_zps59ef29e8.jpg.html)

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/546_zpse7e34075.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/546_zpse7e34075.jpg.html)

I started building and eventually finished the trans tunnel...... don't hate on the flux core welder haha. It does the job, just ALOT of cleanup.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/asdfasdfasdf_zps4b1b1ce9.gif (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/asdfasdfasdf_zps4b1b1ce9.gif.html)

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/520_zps11cbab6d.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/520_zps11cbab6d.jpg.html)

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/542_zps00e474f1.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/542_zps00e474f1.jpg.html)

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/541_zps00dd2691.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/541_zps00dd2691.jpg.html)

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/0119A435-47B1-4C6F-9384-28CEEC20372E_zpskshj39iz.jpg

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/D636FF39-1931-4237-8439-063FB60A66B7_zpstarrxysz.jpg

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/BC47115D-3324-4544-A2E6-252AECDFF9D7_zpsavluhmjn.jpg

I also tac welded plates in the driver compartment on the firewall to patch the wholes that I won't be using.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/E1C401A5-A493-45EA-8B2F-1D8C702C63A7_zpsnshi6qdl.jpg

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/11008529_871317849573990_5874415152920406723_o_zps 52f367d0.jpg

far from perfect, but far from bad too. think im done with the underside..... i know there's imperfections but its good enough for now.... i can always give it some love later on.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/10974658_874354205937021_4987942449611625079_o_zps 2686bd38.jpg

[Engine07]

Man that's going to be a sweet build!! Great work so far, that's going to be a fun little toy. Just be careful with slicks on the rear axle...you prob already know but that thing will be a grenade waiting to go off when it starts hooking up. I've been through a few on my toy, lol. I love the E-85 for high octane also, that's what mine is running on. Just watch your tuning different times of the season as if you buy it at the fuel pumps it changes actual alcohol percent with season changes of the year so some tuning for different times of the year will be required especially with forced induction. My toy runs on a carb though with nitrous so it might be a hair more sensitive to change that superchargers. Just make sure you get the tensioner set tight with the 5 rib belt so they don't spin on ya under boost. Can't wait to see how it turns out

[Shawn1989]

God gave me a gift at the junkyard today.
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/547FF957-2496-4939-B07B-B7D42B41A09D_zpsaqvyhh3c.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/547FF957-2496-4939-B07B-B7D42B41A09D_zpsaqvyhh3c.jpg.html)


http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/BEEE31A0-0D43-4107-9F13-EBDD0FAF4A2A_zpsoprdu7dw.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/BEEE31A0-0D43-4107-9F13-EBDD0FAF4A2A_zpsoprdu7dw.jpg.html)


http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/D0941435-F850-4DA9-B00F-0EED650D547A_zpspcoqz4rn.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/D0941435-F850-4DA9-B00F-0EED650D547A_zpspcoqz4rn.jpg.html)now I just need 1 more lol

oh yeah dave, there is a vacuum bypass on the inlet of the blower

[Shawn1989]

Grabbed the handy dandy angle grinder and cut some square tubing to make a tensioner bracket; then drilled some holes for the tensioner to fit. Came out pretty good.

Going to weld a nut on the backside to hold it all together.

As for mounting it, I'm going to weld it to the sbc adjustable alternator bracket. Shouldn't be an issue because the audi alternator I'm using is fixed; so that bracket is just there for support of the alternator and idler.
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/87973AB9-D602-4607-8F0B-CB9CCD0C24AE_zpsqyss0feh.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/87973AB9-D602-4607-8F0B-CB9CCD0C24AE_zpsqyss0feh.jpg.html)http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/F00E91EE-10E5-45DA-8440-03C1DA345CE5_zpsq5qqemnu.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/F00E91EE-10E5-45DA-8440-03C1DA345CE5_zpsq5qqemnu.jpg.html)http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/D0B7DCFD-A513-43EE-8E7C-4029309DA013_zpsgvvtytvv.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/D0B7DCFD-A513-43EE-8E7C-4029309DA013_zpsgvvtytvv.jpg.html)http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/968C5CA4-CF09-43A9-9301-79C495527698_zpst2v2xnwt.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/968C5CA4-CF09-43A9-9301-79C495527698_zpst2v2xnwt.jpg.html)

[Shawn1989]

Ran to Home Depot to grab a piece of stock so I can start making mounts for the chargers.
Hooked it up in the vice and began bending..... The result:
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/9F62CA0D-7747-4805-8372-14AE196886CD_zpsbjibmxud.jpg


http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/E536B7C8-15F6-4672-B2A5-6A14E9E2AC1E_zps43gpjk2t.jpg


I still need to drill holes where it sits on the exhaust manifold.
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/A272D960-BE96-4AD8-9084-CB061419E83A_zps6h9r1e4a.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/A272D960-BE96-4AD8-9084-CB061419E83A_zps6h9r1e4a.jpg.html)


After that I grabbed an old miata front sway bar; chopped the ends off and they fit perfectly on the heads.
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/A79D2666-D5EB-4D73-AC1E-9087472D8F61_zpsxrfpv31z.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/A79D2666-D5EB-4D73-AC1E-9087472D8F61_zpsxrfpv31z.jpg.html)


http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/74939442-62F7-4A7F-9DD7-AC9EC0126680_zps5l3kqkac.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/74939442-62F7-4A7F-9DD7-AC9EC0126680_zps5l3kqkac.jpg.html)


http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/4050E6F2-D126-48AD-8B6B-F00ECED74F83_zpsmy78qkir.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/4050E6F2-D126-48AD-8B6B-F00ECED74F83_zpsmy78qkir.jpg.html)


Then I grabbed 1/4 steel and began chopping what the Chargers will actually sit on..... I need to make a duplicate:
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/09C7084D-195A-4705-A4FE-7C057BFAAB07_zpstxvgmpen.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/09C7084D-195A-4705-A4FE-7C057BFAAB07_zpstxvgmpen.jpg.html)


For now, that's it; there should be an update tonight. Got a few gussets to cut and quite a few holes to drill, then I need to start lining everything up and tac/welding everything together.


I also am going to make a plate that will mount to 2 bolts on each of the Chargers snouts to hold them together

[tedjan]

keep updating.nice work

[Shawn1989]

Well I got one side pretty much done and I started on the other side.
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/A810E220-5F0B-4343-99D4-EA24B06F079A_zpsd3il2mvm.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/A810E220-5F0B-4343-99D4-EA24B06F079A_zpsd3il2mvm.jpg.html)
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/680D173D-A996-4320-BAD4-FDFCF0653236_zpsbbnc6kyt.jpg

[Shawn1989]

Going a different route on the belt setup.
I will be running 3 belts instead of 2; I need to pick up another tensioner.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/0-100_zpso9ijlg47.gif (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/0-100_zpso9ijlg47.gif.html)

Bondo, seam sealer, and paint for the next week.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/11025861_879465298759245_7699206402329238770_o_zps urqbyyrg.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/11025861_879465298759245_7699206402329238770_o_zps urqbyyrg.jpg.html)

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/1932711_879465372092571_5033345918354337742_o_zpsk u8yf7lv.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/1932711_879465372092571_5033345918354337742_o_zpsk u8yf7lv.jpg.html)

[joegreen]

very crazy, very cool. keep up the good work.

[1project2many]

Nice work so far. Looks like it's going to be a little screamer.

Years ago I rode in a car with twin Ford 3.8 superchargers and it was amazing. Not for speed, not for power, but for the noise! Those twin chargers screamed. The owner said he had trouble picking up races because people could hear the twins making noise and just didn't want to try. Well, he didn't actually say it, he shouted it to me as we cruised down the street. It was a fun car though and at the time it was a great representation of what a DIY guy could do with efi and some used parts.

It took a bit to dig up a photo. The builder is Bob Ward. The photo is from around '99 or '00.
http://saturn5.homestead.com/files/Malibu_2.jpg

[Shawn1989]

It's funny how you bring him up. i was searching literally for a month trying to find him. LUCKILY i got ahold of him on thirdgen and found him on asphault playground. He is informing me that i should ditch the twins and just find a single m112 or m122.

I am still going to do the m90's just due to the fact of it looks awesome...... hopefully dave can get it running flawless; if so, im going to throw the whole engine, pcm and twin supercharger setup on craigslist and try to get an ls1 out of it.
I just have no idea what i should ask for it....... yes, it will be cleaned up and painted.

[1project2many]

I believe Bob used the 7749 and $58 from the Syclone / turbo Sunbird. It's workable code but some people have found it takes a bunch of time to get some of the transitions worked out such as switching from decel to accel. Even if the car wasn't that fast, it had a cool factor that's tough to match. I agree that a single, properly sized SC might be more fun and easier to tune.

Regardless, you're going to have a cool car when done.

You might also want to check out a turbocharged TBI Cavalier that used to be on v6z24.org. Username was 1redry. Car was built (IIRC) without an ecm that was boost specific. IIRC he made decent HP numbers for a mild car.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b97/coderedz24/cavmeet/IMG_0793.jpg

[Shawn1989]

I believe Bob used the 7749 and $58 from the Syclone / turbo Sunbird. It's workable code but some people have found it takes a bunch of time to get some of the transitions worked out such as switching from decel to accel. Even if the car wasn't that fast, it had a cool factor that's tough to match. I agree that a single, properly sized SC might be more fun and easier to tune.
Yeah, i have no clue about the computer stuff. I can wire it all up but when it comes to tuning, i'm at a loss, hence why Dave is in the picture.
I am running a 16196395 PCM that was previously tuned by eagle mark. Unfortunately, he can't guide me anymore. I don't see how a single supercharger will be any different than twins..... turbo's most definately, but superchargers are belt driven so a projected RPM will be the same every single time [single or twins] rather than a turbo which will fluctuate.


Regardless, you're going to have a cool car when done.
I sure hope so! :D


You might also want to check out a turbocharged TBI Cavalier that used to be on v6z24.org. Username was 1redry. Car was built (IIRC) without an ecm that was boost specific. IIRC he made decent HP numbers for a mild car.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b97/coderedz24/cavmeet/IMG_0793.jpg
I'll see if i can get ahold of him. Thanks for the info.
With you saying without an ecm which was boost specific, do you mean that he just has a timing box, and a 2:1 FPR controlling it?

[1project2many]

I don't see how a single supercharger will be any different than twins.....
Heat! More heat. And the noise, noise, noise, noise! Like my Grinch impersonation? :)



With you saying without an ecm which was boost specific, do you mean that he just has a timing box, and a 2:1 FPR controlling it?
I don't remember what he had for additional controls. But the ecm had stock programming so something had to be adjusted.

[Shawn1989]

Heat! More heat. And the noise, noise, noise, noise! Like my Grinch impersonation? :)
lol well i knew that, it's going to be intercooled with water/meth so i don't think heat will really matter that much.... As for the noise, the more, the marrier! Haha the more it screams, the more it intimidates :]
Yeah, first thing i thought of was the grinch lol.

But, i was talking about how the tuning would be different from twins vs single



I don't remember what he had for additional controls. But the ecm had stock programming so something had to be adjusted.

Ok well i just emailed him because he hasn't been on v6z24 since October of 2014, so; my fingers are crossed.

[Shawn1989]

his reply word for word:

wow
were talking apples to oranges here, but I will let you know what I've done and you can take it for what it is. I sold my cavalier about 2.5 years ago as I was unempoyeed and did not want to file bankruptcy, so luckely that pulled me through until I got a job, sad day that was..

In anyrate,

My ECM was not tuned, however I did have a custom tune from superchips. Since my TBI was an high impatence injector to start, I was already in good shape. I had a 10:1 FMU for fuel manaement. Only thing I had done was port and polished the heads, all stock bottom end. Through the research that I've done, I know that the block was good for about 350HP (no kidding). My goal was no more than 300 (which I've never reached) reached about 213 or so at the wheels. (still isn't bad consitering that the stock was 90HP from the factory. Poor 2.2.

In your case, not sure where to begin on that one since your dealing with a supercharger over turbo. In my opinion, turbo's are easier to deal with but each case is different. No wide band. I had mine tuned in from a local speed shop here in dayton, did an ok job. drove it about 3000 miles with no issues, check engine line or anything so I'd say it did ok for me. But mine was more for show. I've taken it to many of shows and won. But didn't want to be one of those guys who did all show and no go.

I hope this helps.

[Shawn1989]

http://home.windstream.net/mcfly/tuning_fuel.htm

i just read this whole thing.
he didn't tune his via the pcm, how reliable do you think this is and how good will the engine run?

[Shawn1989]

Progress.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/BFCE815E-D92F-4C6E-8919-A638F55319EA_zpsbyuzd3xj.jpg

I began painting the inside, but then the wires wanted to put up a fight going where they needed to go. So i ran the wires and now i'll go back in, sand down, tape, and spray around them to clean it all up

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/B7E512B7-EB2A-4B1F-88B7-A2549F89C944_zpspbg72zoh.jpg

Running engine stuff through the trans tunnel rather than the firewall. It should help clean it up a little bit.
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/04532AF5-6954-4533-A378-60356DE2C8B3_zpsjft1s0py.jpg

Painted the bay, came out good for being the good 'ol Rustoleum rattlecan.
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/463074D7-817F-491C-8FC3-8977A545FAD0_zpsejcme2yo.jpg

Ran the fuel, brake, and clutch lines today since it was all dried up.
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/66CC1C97-4407-485E-B53E-671E94413CAB_zps4tvm2zab.jpg


I should be able to get the inside of the tub completely redone tomorrow. I'll post pics; then it will be time to work on the engine again.

[Shawn1989]

Well i didn't get to the inside of the car, instead i worked on the blowers a little bit.

I fabricated up a mount for the tensioner. I got rid of the sway bar due to it being spring steel and you can't weld it [I wasn't aware of this; so thank you to someone who pointed it out] and i replaced it with steel stock. I took the tensioner apart, drilled a hole in the housing to reclock the spring for the area of tension i will need. I also filed down the "stop" a little further back so it has more room to retract and keep tension on the belt rather than maxing out and letting the belt get sloppy. I put it back together and these are the results:

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/11034916_884705794901862_3703029917499157968_n_zps lucwatlf.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/11034916_884705794901862_3703029917499157968_n_zps lucwatlf.jpg.html)

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/11040882_884705808235194_7868454338845297777_n_zps niubazyg.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/11040882_884705808235194_7868454338845297777_n_zps niubazyg.jpg.html)

I was also looking to see if the blowers mount is flexing and it is. I am not sure if its flexing just because it's only tac welded together, but either way, I'm going to add a few couple of supports on each side just to be safe.

That's it for now, I'll start working on the passenger blower tomorrow. I need to get another tensioner from the junkyard and another belt from autozone.

[Shawn1989]

drum roll please!

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/10505091_885950994777342_2640037420338487189_o_zps etafbxcx.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/10505091_885950994777342_2640037420338487189_o_zps etafbxcx.jpg.html)

few adjustments are needed, BUT there she is!
gotta take back apart to fully weld, add bracing, and paint, but overall i am satisfied.
alternator and vbelt slipping is my main concern though :/

[brian617]

Your superchargers will be turning different rpms.

[Shawn1989]

Your superchargers will be turning different rpms.

I thought this too...... SO i marked the pulleys and supercharger housing, turned the crank by hand, they lined up perfectly.
I'll upload a video to show you.

[Six_Shooter]

The drive and driven ratios ARE different between the two superchargers. They might be close enough that a single rotation looks to be close, but run it for several dozen rotations and they will get out of "sync".

Honestly I don't know why you are trying to run then from different belts. You will be much better off to run them off a single belt. The only exception would be when using a jack shaft where a single belt drives an intermediate pulley and then both superchargers are run from that intermediate pulley.

[brian617]

I thought this too...... SO i marked the pulleys and supercharger housing, turned the crank by hand, they lined up perfectly.
I'll upload a video to show you.

Its simple drive-driven ratios. One belt runs strait off the crankshaft, the other is being turned by the water pump which is driven by the crankshaft. The water pump pulley would have to be the same diameter as the crankshaft in order for the ratios to be the same. The water pump pulley is turning faster than the crankshaft.

[Shawn1989]

Correction. Spun it 10 times, passenger went a little further

[brian617]

I also agree with the single belt, seems like you have a lot chances for belt slip.

[Shawn1989]

I also agree with the single belt, seems like you have a lot chances for belt slip.

People said a single belt as more chances of failure..... that was the original plan :mad1:


here is how much faster the passenger is after 10 rotations...... would a 10% overdrive pulley on the drivers side possible fix this? i know a single belt would but going through that hassle of rebuilding everything sucks :[

http://i58.tinypic.com/34qmwow.jpg

[Skinny Pedal]

Whats the size difference in your crank pulley and water pump pulley? There is your % of change you need.

[Shawn1989]

Ok, about the single belt......

Can i run it like this without any problems? [comes in contact with the waterpump twice]

IF so, i can pick up another belt right now; all i would need to do is add another idler where the red dot is.

http://i62.tinypic.com/2ic357k.gif

[brian617]

Lots of head scratching there to maintain proper rotation and apply enough contact patch. Any idea how the gentleman who had already done this ran his belt setup?

[brian617]

Maybe a later model GM serp set up, then bolt another pulley to the front of the water pump to drive the SC's?

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s98/Pocket_004/Blowers/DSC01365.jpg

[Shawn1989]

No idea.

These are the only pictures that i have to go off of.

https://www.google.com/search?q=saturn+5+twin+m90&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=GsYAVYqtE4jvoASgsIEo&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1360&bih=677#imgdii=_

[Shawn1989]

you also gotta think, it's going in a miata so i gotta keep it as compact as possible. can't run my alternator on the lower passenger side of the block cause of my sway bar. I have to use a modified one because the crank pulley is in the way of it.

[joegreen]

I know it sucks to change things around but their is a way their somewhere. What if you move the drivers side blower further forward like the passenger side, then you can get a longer belt and to go around both superchargers crank and alternator and clear the water pump and power steering.

[Shawn1989]

I know it sucks to change things around but their is a way their somewhere. What if you move the drivers side blower further forward like the passenger side, then you can get a longer belt and to go around both superchargers crank and alternator and clear the water pump and power steering.

They are even. I can get a belt long enough to wrap around everything by adding 1 more idler, HOWEVER, it touches the waterpump twice. I don't know if that will cause any issues.

[See page 2 of this thread for what im talking about]

[Roadknee]

Ok, about the single belt......

Can i run it like this without any problems? [comes in contact with the waterpump twice]

IF so, i can pick up another belt right now; all i would need to do is add another idler where the red dot is.



http://i62.tinypic.com/2ic357k.gif

How about this: Instead of wrapping the belt around the idler below the red dot, bring the belt up and wrap it around the alternator? This will provide more alternator contact and close to 180 degrees contact on the bottom of the water pump. The belt would run straight from the top of one supercharger pulley to the next. You could add another idler near the alternator bracket to bring the belt down between the superchargers if needed. You might also lock out one of the spring loaded tensioners. I'm not certain but the two of them could work against one another and cause problems.

[Shawn1989]

How about this: Instead of wrapping the belt around the idler below the red dot, bring the belt up and wrap it around the alternator? This will provide more alternator contact and close to 180 degrees contact on the bottom of the water pump. The belt would run straight from the top of one supercharger pulley to the next. You could add another idler near the alternator bracket to bring the belt down between the superchargers if needed. You might also lock out one of the spring loaded tensioners. I'm not certain but the two of them could work against one another and cause problems.

can you edit the original in paint and show me what you mean by that?
the way that i see it, is too big of a gap for the supercharger span so another idler would be needed.

[Six_Shooter]

Here are a few ideas I've come up with:

If you swapped to a Honda alternator (Older B,D series etc where the engine rotates opposite most engines) and used a smooth pulley, you could go with this first idea. The Honda alternator is to have proper cooling. A GM alternator will charge when spun backwards but cooling is less effective.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=8616&d=1426147543

This next one would work if you went with a shorter power steering belt that only wraps around the crank pulley and the power steering pump (or no power steering pump at all). You would find that belts would wear out quickly due to different driven/drive ratios of the power steering and other accessory belt(s) if you tried to wrap two belts around both the crank and water pump pulleys. Also replace the driver side tensioner with a static idler pulley.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=8617&d=1426147543


The next idea requires moving the driver side supercharger forward, and adding a second cranlley stacked onto the existing crank pulley (many SC kits do this).

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=8614&d=1426147543

The final idea requires swapping teh water pump and power steering pump for serpentine drive units.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=8615&d=1426147543

Honestly I'm not really liking any of the ideas enough to do them myself, I would go a different route entirely if it was me and wanted two super chargers.

[Roadknee]

Something like this

[brian617]

Something like this

I came up with similar in my head, but alternator would be spinning backwards and on flat side of belt.

[scottyd]

They're air pumps.. not timing gears.. the clocking isn't that important. I assume it would change PSI output between the two slightly but nothing that would be likely very noticeable or adjustable even... Especially when they tee or hat together into the TBI.. I'd be more worried about slippage on that alternator.

This is creative as can be, and also inspiring.. keep it up, and I hope you got yourself a fire ext close by these days. Be safe!

[Shawn1989]

well, i welded a "support bar" underneath the blower plates, got rid of 1 tensioner and replaced it with an idler to run a single belt...... painted it all up and put her in the car for a test fit.

i already knew the hood wasn't going to close, but everything else is spot on. couldn't be any happier.

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/11087795_1620606741509782_3192020888759953717_o_zp sga1oocx3.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/11087795_1620606741509782_3192020888759953717_o_zp sga1oocx3.jpg.html)

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/11134114_1620606708176452_1756091067456865693_o_zp sczq01yhw.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/11134114_1620606708176452_1756091067456865693_o_zp sczq01yhw.jpg.html)

http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l521/shawnprince1989/10841952_1620606738176449_1567505116682597157_o_zp swbiprrp0.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/shawnprince1989/media/10841952_1620606738176449_1567505116682597157_o_zp swbiprrp0.jpg.html)

[1project2many]

I'm really liking this. It was almost warm enough here to start working on one of my vehicles.

[Shawn1989]

I'm really liking this. It was almost warm enough here to start working on one of my vehicles.

gotta love vegas :]

125 during summer, 50 during winter :]

[Maxzillian]

They're air pumps.. not timing gears.. the clocking isn't that important. I assume it would change PSI output between the two slightly but nothing that would be likely very noticeable or adjustable even... Especially when they tee or hat together into the TBI.. I'd be more worried about slippage on that alternator.

This is creative as can be, and also inspiring.. keep it up, and I hope you got yourself a fire ext close by these days. Be safe!

I'm a little late to the party, but I agree. The slight difference in speed will only result in one blower providing slightly more air than the other. The PSI will be even since they're plumbed together (I assume). My concern is whether the V belt would be able to provide enough horsepower to run the blower and whether or not the alternator would slip with the original setup.

[Shawn1989]

I'm a little late to the party, but I agree. The slight difference in speed will only result in one blower providing slightly more air than the other. The PSI will be even since they're plumbed together (I assume). My concern is whether the V belt would be able to provide enough horsepower to run the blower and whether or not the alternator would slip with the original setup.

sorry i didn't tell you guys.
I have it all worked out to where a single belt will be used all driven by the crank. Problem fixed :D

I got rid of the passenger side tensioner, replaced with single idler, added another idler right below alternator and now it's capable of running just 1 belt. :]

[Tylerz281500]

bump!

[Scrufdog]

I know its a bit of a dead thread, but I'd love to know how the intake piping is routed...

[Tylerz281500]

i was hoping it wasnt dead

[Shawn1989]

Dead thread. PAH!

you got another thing comin.

http://youtu.be/QXcdwEEEiH0


anywho; dave, are you ready to tune this thing??

[dave w]

Dead thread. PAH!

you got another thing comin.

http://youtu.be/QXcdwEEEiH0


anywho; dave, are you ready to tune this thing??

Sure!
I like the idea of a Dynamic EFI EBL system: http://www.dynamicefi.com/EBL_Flash.php

For a boosted TBI engine, the EBL System is a very good option.:thumbsup:

dave w

[Shawn1989]

Sooooo out of my price range lol

[Tylerz281500]

need pics! wanna make me the mounts!? =)

[dave w]

Sooooo out of my price range lol

Maybe other members can offer a budget suggestion for a TBI boost computer?

dave w

[Shawn1989]

How well would this work?

http://home.windstream.net/mcfly/tuning_fuel.htm

i have a wideband and i can get the aeromotive regulator. Intercooler is about to be ordered.

[dave w]

I think its worth sharing one of the comments form the link above:

"5/20/01 (If you want real control) Accel DFI Fuel-Spark ECM (http://home.windstream.net/mcfly/accel.htm). I have since installed this computer and was able to delete the FMU entirely and up the injectors to 50# and install a 2bar MAP sensor which allows the computer to see boost. Now I have complete control over the fuel map. The fuel pressure stays at a constant 14 PSI and the computer controls additional fuel under boost through the injector pulse. I was also able to ad an air temp sensor. "

I still favor the Dynamic EFI system vs. Accel DFI Fuel-Spark ECM (http://home.windstream.net/mcfly/accel.htm) for "REAL CONTROL".

dave w

[Shawn1989]

Does a free tune come with it ;)

[dave w]

Does a free tune come with it ;)
Likely not.

Once you figure out what computer you want to use, the next decision is the bypass valve control.

"Bypass valve: I should also mention the Bypass valve (http://home.windstream.net/mcfly/bypass_valves.htm). The bypass valve is a release which vents off pressure in a rapid de-acceleration situation. When the Supercharger is producing boost and you abruptly let off the gas, closing the throttle plates, the boost has nowhere to go - kind of hard on everything. The Bypass helps relieve this and also helps smooth out your idle. Under idle or normal driving (vacuum) the valve is open. When it sees a boost signal it closes. This is also helpful in building up boost quicker. I have tried a standard Bosch 1" and a Vortech Race Bypass Valve."


dave w

[Shawn1989]

I have a bosch one from a saab/audi for each blower. When it hits boost; it closes

[Shawn1989]

Which one would i purchase? The $430 or $380?

[dave w]

Which one would i purchase? The $430 or $380?
I was thinking other members might comment on other computer options?

I would purchase the $450 option, which includes the USB to Serial adapter, and tested system.

dave w

[1project2many]

Maybe other members can offer a budget suggestion for a TBI boost computer?

The 1227749 with $58 can be used with TBI and boost. The code and hardware are present to control TBI injectors although this path is not well explored. There may be some writeups on the 'net by people working to use this ecm with $58 (or $59) in TBI mode.

Shawn, in my 30+ years experience, the one statement about cars that seems to be true is this: "You can save time or you can save money, but it's rare to save both." If your budget does not allow for a designed and documented solution then you will be investing time and labor to find an alternative. Either you should start searching for EBL or similar for sale used and cheap, or you should plan to learn enough about the GMECM family to make an alternative ecm work.

[dispoejoe95]

[QUOTE=Shawn1989;56798]Dead thread. PAH!

you got another thing comin.

http://youtu.be/QXcdwEEEiH0


Shawn...I haven't been a member long so I hadn't seen any of this thread before. Just gotta say, that is awesome!!! Can't wait to see some video of it on the track once you get that beast tuned!

[1project2many]

Ahhh... sounds like Bob's Malibu. Don't bother buying tunes (music), the only singing you'll hear is those blowers.

[dave w]

The Dynamic EFI system will do tuning (VE Learns), possibly saving money in the long run!

I like being able to help others "Learn" how to tune for themselves!:thumbsup: ... Tuition is less expense than Tuning.

dave w

[Shawn1989]

A local guy MIGHT be able to tune it...... however, before i do that i would like to run it on a rising rate FPR through a load to see if it going to throw this belt..... if not then ill take it to the dyno and see what he can do :] need to grab a 2 bar map sensor though.

anyway, fleabay came through lol

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp270/no_refuse/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpshqdxkiyr.jpg

[dave w]

I wonder if the local tuner uses a similar AFR spreadsheet to tune with?

dave w

[89S10_Project]

The car is just SICK.

It also looks vaguely familiar. Are you by chance in Charleston, SC (please god, yes.... I'd love to see this thing!)

[badbrad]

this is hideous....I love it....I'd love to rent it one weekend!!!!

[Robban_C]

... After that I grabbed an old miata front sway bar; chopped the ends off and they fit perfectly on the heads. ...
I haven´t had time to read the whole thread yet so I might be missing some information.
Are you planning on welding on an old sway bar?
I like the idea of using what you already have but you should NEVER use a sway bar (or spring) for something that should be welded. They are hardened and tempered and might crack after welding. Maybe not immediately but sooner or later that might happen. Steel that are made for springs (a sway bar is kind of a spring and uses the same material) are not considered weldable and that is just because they are prone to cracking. You can easily weld in them but they will usually become very brittle after welding.

What usually works if you have to is soldering/brazing (I don´t know which is the right term) with high temperature silver solder but that would involve a lot of heat with a gas welder with such big parts as this. It´s not that practical.
In this case I would fabricate the parts in weldable steel instead.

But I really like the idea of a Ch SB in a Miata, even without the blowers.
The blowers will make a ride in your Miata like riding bareback on a natural aspirated Ch SB. LOL!

[89S10_Project]

Any news on this build? :)