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JeepsAndGuns
12-14-2011, 03:46 PM
So reading about the wideband o2's and thinking about getting one to help with better tuning. But I have a couple questions I cant really find the answer to.
If I want to wire it up to where it connects to that egr pintle position pin on my 7427, and then it will display on my datalog screen, do I still need a stand alone wideband controller?
Do I connect the sensor output wire from the wideband directly to the pcm, or do I have to buy one of those expensive WB contollers?
FSJ Guy
12-14-2011, 07:16 PM
AFAIK, you will need the wideband controller, too. Around $200 from Innovate, I think, including the WB02 sensor. You hook up the 5V output to the EGR pintle input and the "regular" narrowband output goes to your OEM O2 input.

The ECM won't do anything with the wideband data, but it will be there in your datastream. If you have an AutoProm, you can hook the wideband output to one of the AutoProm's inputs and edit your acquisition file to datalog from the AutoProm. There's really no difference between the two. And if you don't have an AutoProm, it's irrelevant anyway.
lightning-jr
12-14-2011, 07:31 PM
Yes all WB sensors need a controller.

I don't suggest substituting WB simulated NB signal, for actual NB mounted close to the head, results can be less than satisfactory.

The EBL flash learns OL with a wideband...pretty sexy.
Six_Shooter
12-14-2011, 08:31 PM
Yes all WB sensors need a controller.

^^^ This.

The WB controller does a lot, including controlling the sensor heater, which is very important.

Take a look at the SLC offerings from 14point7.com, inexpensive, work great and loads of features.
JeepsAndGuns
12-15-2011, 02:48 AM
Dang, why cant something cool be cheap for once. I was hoping for something as simple as it was to wire up my 4 wire sensor. Power and ground for heater, ground for sensor, and then output for the pcm.

I would be keeping the one I have right now, not wanting to replace it. I would simply install the WB in the other down pipe..
I checked out the site you mentioned. So are there any controllers out there that do nothing but supply a output for hooking up to the pcm for datalogging?
EagleMark
12-15-2011, 03:39 AM
Well this is what I got awhile ago and works well.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php

But if I had known I think I would have got this:
http://www.dynamicefi.com/TT-1.php
ODDDOYLERULES
12-15-2011, 05:07 AM
yeah forget simming the narrowband from the innovate controller though, as stated, results are underwhelming.

I know it seems cool, but another bung and plug is like 25 bucks installed and you already have a working narrowband thats happy with everything, right? Why bother cutting wires and dealing with bs CEL illumination? It's just a hassle.
ODDDOYLERULES
12-15-2011, 05:09 AM
and that dynamic efi link looks a whole lot tidier than the mess my lc1 or lm1 whatever is, all set up for non permanent installations... that looks pretty nice and the screenshots look like almost all the features of the innovate are covered...
EagleMark
12-15-2011, 05:21 AM
and that dynamic efi link looks a whole lot tidier than the mess my lc1 or lm1 whatever is, all set up for non permanent installations... that looks pretty nice and the screenshots look like almost all the features of the innovate are covered...Yup! And RBob who is the owner of Dynamic EFI is WAY better at tech support than what I had to deal with at Innovate... I bought the LC-1 from Moates, I like to support them, with their O-Meter. Works good... WAY to much wiring to be done!!! And wires from LC-1 are not long enough for anything... But like I said I think I would have gone with the Dynamic version... I know Six Shooter likes what he has from 14point7to1... not sure what other options there are?
EagleMark
12-15-2011, 05:37 AM
One cool thing I did with the LC-1 and O-Meter was combine the Free Air button into the O-Meter.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=62&d=1320981960

But then attached some velcro to AutoProm to mount it. I can seprate the AutoProm and Wideband but here's all the wiring needed to make the 2 work together.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=138&d=1320981967

Wired this way I can watch AFR on O-Meter, record AFR data through AutoProm. Three wires to hook up, power, ground and simulated O2 while I place the wideband in exisiting O2 bung... simulated O2 is not that great like everyone says but does work. Best to force open loop tune with this setup...
Six_Shooter
12-15-2011, 06:49 AM
Sorry, I was replying on my iPhone earlier and it's not the easiest to copy and paste URLs and such, on it.

The SLC_OEM, is as basic of a controller as you're going to find. WBO2 controller, linear WB output, sim NB output and nothing else.

You can get an "Eval pack" with a sensor for $125.

I'm planning to replace my LC-1 in my Datsun with an SLC-OEM eval pack.

http://14point7.com/SLC-OEM.php
EagleMark
12-15-2011, 08:42 AM
That's pretty small and cheap! You going to try and install it in the ECM?
Six_Shooter
12-15-2011, 10:33 AM
That's pretty small and cheap! You going to try and install it in the ECM?

Probably not. It would be more difficult to swap in an ECM if such a need arose. Probably use a small experimenter's box attached to the harness near the ECM.
JeepsAndGuns
12-15-2011, 03:49 PM
Wow mark, that is a lot of wiring just for a wideband!! I checked out the link you posted, then looked at their other stuff. For the same price as the one you have, they also have this:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php
Having the bling guage almost eleminates the need or desire to put it into the datastream, but it appears to have a output so it could be attached to the pcm and put into the datastream also? That would be handy for datalogging/recording and seeing when and at what points you are rich/lean. But still $200 is a lot of coin. The dymanic one seems like a good deal, but for $10 more, I think I would get that one with the guage.

Six, that one you posted is about what I am looking for. A controller, and nothing else, no other features I dont want/need. Price seems decent. But is it just a bare board with no box or anything to put it in?
EagleMark
12-15-2011, 05:24 PM
That is new and was not available when I got mine. Wiring is supposed to be simple too! And can datalog from it, so I may have a new favorite...
Six_Shooter
12-15-2011, 05:37 PM
Six, that one you posted is about what I am looking for. A controller, and nothing else, no other features I dont want/need. Price seems decent. But is it just a bare board with no box or anything to put it in?

AFAIK, yes it's just a bare board, or rather boards. There is the SLC_OEM, and then the power supply board, used in the "Eval kit," so some soldering is required going that route. It is really meant to be integrated into other products, which is what most people are using them for. It can be used as a stand alone though. A small experimenters box can be bought through any electronics supply house, either online or at a brick and mortar store.
EagleMark
12-15-2011, 05:41 PM
Although it's pretty small for an ECM I have a couple extras I was experimenting on... only thing left is the case... if you guys need one pay shipping...
Six_Shooter
12-15-2011, 05:45 PM
Although it's pretty small for an ECM I have a couple extras I was experimenting on... only thing left is the case... if you guys need one pay shipping...

What were you experimenting on, that you have a couple cases left?
EagleMark
12-15-2011, 11:58 PM
I used the word experimenting to avoid the word practice and scewed up :laugh: ... I had some oddball ecm that was the first I ever soldered a socket in because I had not soldered on a circut board since high school... then I had my first 7747 I solered a socket into I messed up... then tryied to pull the plug to make a jumper to 97427... so all I have left are cases. I sold my JimStim one I made from a case. Was going to use one for wideband but went another way... was going to use one for a 7747 to 9747 jumper like in the other thread... but they are all projects that now I see done are not going to do. If you need one let me know?
JeepsAndGuns
12-16-2011, 03:29 AM
I like the price of the eval kit, but also like that guage kit. Trying to justify myself the extra $75 for a bling bling guage. But with the guage I dont have to be datalogging to watch the afr. Another neat feature about the guage, is I could be emulating and have things like AE and PE settings pulled up, and not have to have the data dash pulled up and in the way so I could see afr.

$200.........
FSJ Guy
12-16-2011, 04:20 AM
Hopefully in a month or two, there will be another data monitor on the market that supports the 16197427 ECM. You'd have your choice of displays (small/large) and choices of colors (red, amber, blue, etc.) as well as a choice of four different items to monitor.

;-)
EagleMark
12-16-2011, 04:34 AM
Hopefully in a month or two, there will be another data monitor on the market that supports the 16197427 ECM. You'd have your choice of displays (small/large) and choices of colors (red, amber, blue, etc.) as well as a choice of four different items to monitor.

;-)That's just a tease... what/where is it?
Six_Shooter
12-16-2011, 04:37 AM
Hopefully it's not based on the TV II, because I'm getting no after sale support for over a year now.
Shame, it could have been awesome.
EagleMark
12-16-2011, 04:38 AM
I like the price of the eval kit, but also like that guage kit. Trying to justify myself the extra $75 for a bling bling guage. But with the guage I dont have to be datalogging to watch the afr. Another neat feature about the guage, is I could be emulating and have things like AE and PE settings pulled up, and not have to have the data dash pulled up and in the way so I could see afr.

$200.........This is the key to that MTX-L wideband you linked to:

Built-in Direct Digital™ Wideband Controller reduces wiring and simplifies
installation (No LC-1 required)

and

and 2 fully programmable linear analog outputs for use with aftermarket engine
managements systems and dataloggers!

That makes it WAY better than an LC-1 !
Six_Shooter
12-16-2011, 04:40 AM
This is the key to that MTX-L wideband you linked to:

and


That makes it WAY better than an LC-1 !

You're going to make it difficult for me to sell my LC-1...
EagleMark
12-16-2011, 05:23 AM
Your an Admin! You can delete my post! :innocent2:

The LC-1 is excellent, just to much wiring and they don't send it with enough. Then when you buy a gauge from them you figure it would plug into one of the sockets, but noooo those are for chaining all the other things together.

I think they may have got it right with that new MTX-L... have to see if the wideband O2 sensor or wiring from gauge will reach? If not it's my same complaint, you have to make the middle?

I have an extra WideBand O2 sensor, I'm going to see if I can buy the gauge...
EagleMark
12-16-2011, 05:29 AM
Looks like they did fix the middle of wiring missing... but they added it to the O2 sensor end. If it were added to the gauge end I could have used the gauge...

Bosch Wideband O2 Sensor, 8 Ft. Sensor Cable (Overall length 10 ft.),
or

Bosch O2 Sensor, 3ft. Sensor Cable (Overall length 4.5ft.),

My sensors measure 30 inches...
Six_Shooter
12-16-2011, 06:58 AM
Your an Admin! You can delete my post! :innocent2:

That wouldn't be very gentlemanly of me, now would it? :innocent:


The LC-1 is excellent, just to much wiring and they don't send it with enough. Then when you buy a gauge from them you figure it would plug into one of the sockets, but noooo those are for chaining all the other things together.

It's been reliable for me, but I've always hated how I have to have the controller part in the engine bay. Right now it's tie-wrapped to the main engine harness between the head and the fire wall. It's difficult to hide and keep it serviceable. :doh:
EagleMark
12-16-2011, 07:32 AM
It's been reliable for me, but I've always hated how I have to have the controller part in the engine bay. Right now it's tie-wrapped to the main engine harness between the head and the fire wall. It's difficult to hide and keep it serviceable. :doh:Yeah but they are designed for that do last forever there but I have the same concern. But never a problem.

So the new MTX-L keeps the controller in a more freindly location! Inside the car! But will it be as reliable and last as long compact to about half the space?

I have the LC-1 and it's set with O-Meter to be portable, I can run it alone or with the AutoProm so I am set.

If I were to buy one for permenent install... Pretty sure I'd get that new MTX-L from Innovate. They do have an excellent repution for products that daisychain together, but so does that 14point7to1 stuff you have.
FSJ Guy
12-16-2011, 08:17 AM
That's just a tease... what/where is it?

Sorry. I couldn't resist. The seller didn't say to say or not say anything, so I probably shouldn't discuss details. (Too late for that, eh?)

The seller said that they would email me when the software update is available to make it work. Probably won't happen until January 2012 at the earliest, I guess.