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View Full Version : 1227747 to 16197427 Conversion Box!



d0nk3y
11-24-2011, 03:34 AM
No, dont make that adapter, its a royal pain in the butt to make. Trust me, I made one. Once you plug the 7427 in and run it, you wont want to go back to the 7747. I made that adapter, plugged it in and took a test drive. I never plugged the 7747 back in. I removed the adapter and removed the pins from the 7747 connectors and put them in the 7427 connectors and never looked back. Took probably 4 times as long to make the adapter than it did to re pin the connectors. :laugh:

I'm going to use the 7427 for my own projects. :rockon:
I'm just going to make the adapter to get faster data acquisition in vehicles setup with 7747 ecus. Seems I know lots of people with modified TBI engines that don't quite run right. :rofl: When I go trash-pickin at the local JY, I don't want to have to always be on the lookout for a 7427 for a "Buddy", lol! I'm having a helluva time tuning this latest truck; it's a "mystery" 350 with a huge cam and a stock stall speed converter. Guy bought it from someone else and got tired of it flooding out on hills (offroading), so he paid $$$ for a TBI harness and put a TBI and manifold on it then wondered why it wouldn't run. :mad1: That dang 747 gives me a lil bit of data every 1.2 seconds, whether I need it or not ;) and it's just not fast enough to catch the transients.

Anywhoo, I liberated connectors from a 747 box today and I'm just siting down to make up my excel sheet for listing the circuits & location for each ECU. After that, just some swapping of wires, lol.

dave w
11-24-2011, 05:19 AM
Try using the attached Excel spreadsheet for fixing VE tables. The spreadsheet includes the older '7747 and the newer TBI PCM with $OE, $E6, $OD, $31. Copy / Paste the running averages from the TunerPro RT BLM History Tables. Compared to other VE Fixers, the attached spreadsheet is simple to use and will get the VE about 90% ~ 95% accurate.

dave w

EagleMark
11-24-2011, 05:48 AM
I'm going to use the 7427 for my own projects. :rockon:
I'm just going to make the adapter to get faster data acquisition in vehicles setup with 7747 ecus. Seems I know lots of people with modified TBI engines that don't quite run right. :rofl: When I go trash-pickin at the local JY, I don't want to have to always be on the lookout for a 7427 for a "Buddy", lol! I'm having a helluva time tuning this latest truck; it's a "mystery" 350 with a huge cam and a stock stall speed converter. Guy bought it from someone else and got tired of it flooding out on hills (offroading), so he paid $$$ for a TBI harness and put a TBI and manifold on it then wondered why it wouldn't run. :mad1: That dang 747 gives me a lil bit of data every 1.2 seconds, whether I need it or not ;) and it's just not fast enough to catch the transients.

Anywhoo, I liberated connectors from a 747 box today and I'm just siting down to make up my excel sheet for listing the circuits & location for each ECU. After that, just some swapping of wires, lol.So you will have an adapter to plug into a 7747 and use a 97427 to record data to tune with? That sounds like a cool idea. Here's a link with the pin by pin change needed:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?173-7747-RIP-ECM-to-427-PCM-Swap-with-Wiring-Pinout-Directions!&highlight=16197427

d0nk3y
11-24-2011, 06:09 AM
Dave W - thank you! I'll check that out!

EagleMark - You just gave me exactly what I was going to construct in excel: Thank you very much!

~Scot

EagleMark
11-24-2011, 06:23 AM
I thought that was what you were up too! No need to re-invent the wheel. You'll find we all work and learn well from each other here! :thumbsup:

d0nk3y
12-06-2011, 03:48 AM
:mad1:

Have things wired up per the pinouts and not seeing enough over serial data line; i.e. RPM would be nice. :laugh: Just went though and repinned the harness and checked for shorts and missing wires when I find:

I would also like to mention that the orange Serial Data wire needs to be
relocated from the top row, Pin "E" to the lower row, Pin "M". You will also
need to scan the vehicle like a 1993-1995 G-Series Van, C-Series Truck,
S-Series Blazer (http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/Streetbeatcustoms/Ragtops-Sunroofs/Blazer-Special-S-Series-Sliding-Ragtop/557559/), etc with Auto transmission.

So, I wired in a separate ALDL into my translation harness - figure if TunerPro is using a 16197427 adx, the serial line should be in the right spot. :homer: I just need to go back out and check out some voltages, but it's too dang cold and dark outside. :D
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2/scot_douglas/Donkeys Speed Shop/DSC_0592.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2/scot_douglas/Donkeys Speed Shop/DSC_0591.jpg

How's that for STEALTH? :innocent2:

dave w
12-06-2011, 05:28 AM
I've recently learned, that the 700R4 TCC control wire is Pin E11 NOT E10!!

dave w

EagleMark
12-06-2011, 06:31 AM
Pretty sweet setup for the purpose. Let us know how it turns out when you get 427 data and redo the 7747 bin. :thumbsup:

d0nk3y
12-06-2011, 02:32 PM
Thanks!
I also spent a few hours measuring the cam profile on the engine I'm working on; looks to be fairly close to a comp cams 260H with around a 105 degree LSA. :nono: That helps explain the "fun" I've been having with the VEs at idle, LOL! He may just end up with a 7427 in this thing after all is said and done; looking through the code, there's some great stuff in there this motor could take advantage of.

I know, I know - wasn't someone here telling me to forget the 7747 and just use the 7427 and be done with it? :laugh: :happy:

Scot

P.S. Here's a shot of the beast I'm working on; I moved the step-ladder out of the way to take this. :rofl:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2/scot_douglas/Donkeys Speed Shop/DSC_0589.jpg

JeepsAndGuns
12-06-2011, 03:41 PM
"I would also like to mention that the orange Serial Data wire needs to be
relocated from the top row, Pin "E" to the lower row, Pin "M". You will also
need to scan the vehicle like a 1993-1995 G-Series Van, C-Series Truck,
S-Series Blazer (http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/Streetbeatcustoms/Ragtops-Sunroofs/Blazer-Special-S-Series-Sliding-Ragtop/557559/), etc with Auto transmission. "

I have read this a couple times myself, but first time I read it was after I had already been datalogging with my 7427.
I have never moved the pins in the ALDL plug and it still works just fine. But I have read where other people have had to swap because they couldnt get aldl connection. Why would mine still be working just fine?

d0nk3y
12-06-2011, 03:51 PM
Good question! I have also found some info on another website that claims it is hit-or-miss with changing the Serial data line.

Hey- I was getting ready to contact you - did you get the money I sent for the 7427? I may need it for this vehicle. :laugh:

EagleMark
12-06-2011, 06:14 PM
Thanks!
I also spent a few hours measuring the cam profile on the engine I'm working on; looks to be fairly close to a comp cams 260H with around a 105 degree LSA. :nono: That helps explain the "fun" I've been having with the VEs at idle, LOL! He may just end up with a 7427 in this thing after all is said and done; looking through the code, there's some great stuff in there this motor could take advantage of.

I know, I know - wasn't someone here telling me to forget the 7747 and just use the 7427 and be done with it? :laugh: :happy:

Scot
Another way to see how much trouble you will have tuning a big cam is the old fashion vacuum gauge!

I did a HUGE truck like yours but he had a cam so big it never had any power at low RPM and he could not Rock Crawl, was great at mud bogs... so I changed the cam first (went from 9 to 13 at idle) and he liked it a lot more, then did an EFI conversion tuning.

EagleMark
12-06-2011, 08:33 PM
"I would also like to mention that the orange Serial Data wire needs to be
relocated from the top row, Pin "E" to the lower row, Pin "M". You will also
need to scan the vehicle like a 1993-1995 G-Series Van, C-Series Truck,
S-Series Blazer (http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/Streetbeatcustoms/Ragtops-Sunroofs/Blazer-Special-S-Series-Sliding-Ragtop/557559/), etc with Auto transmission. "

I have read this a couple times myself, but first time I read it was after I had already been datalogging with my 7427.
I have never moved the pins in the ALDL plug and it still works just fine. But I have read where other people have had to swap because they couldnt get aldl connection. Why would mine still be working just fine?Well I figured out why!

First the pin out changes on the conversion from 1227747 to 16197427 are correct!
A8--------F9----------ORN------------Serial Datastream

But the difference is P3 1227747 puts out serial data at 160 baud speed to pin E.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=798&d=1323190036


The P4 16197427 puts out serial data at 8192 baud speed to in M.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=800&d=1323190401


The reason your getting data with your cable to computer on wrong ALDL port is:

Generally GM cars that use pin E are communicating at 160 baud speed, and the cars using pin M are communicating at 8192 baud. The pin locations are labeled inside of the 12 pin connector shell.
Pin M and pin E of our cables are jumpered together inside the connector shell and go to the same spot in the circuit. Again, you are only using one of these pins to read data, so only one of these pin locations will be populated on your vehicle. We jumper these 2 pins together so that this cable will work for any 1982 to 1995 era car, regardless of the pin layout in the car.


A scantool would not have 2 serial data connections jumpered together, it needs correct data on correct pin for each year/make/model car. You'll notice there are many other wires to the ALDL port for many other reasons depending on application used by scan tools. Things like ABS, TCM, BCM, SIR to name a few...

This may also be the reason some cars have so much trouble with TunerPro recieving serial data to ADS or ADX files, although we only ever use pin A which is a ground and pin B which is Diagnostic Link Test (DLC) for checking codes. And either pin E or pin M for serial data. Who knows what is on the other pin when the cable has two pins jumpered together? I know the ADS/ADX for 1990 1227730 corvette needs a silence command on it's serial data line because it is also tied into the Digatal Dash, but it would work without silence command on earlier models without digatal dash. I've still not got my $EE ADX to work on my Buick Roadmaster although it works on other LT1 engines and because this came up looked and sure enough I have another wire tied into my datastream?

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=801&d=1323192499


So I need to find what that wire is and find the silence command for it.

JeepsAndGuns
12-07-2011, 02:51 AM
Ahh, good info there mark! So that explains why it works just fine on mine without ever moving the pins. I guess I should swap that wire to the correct spot on the aldl plug just incase I am out somewhere and have to have a parts store scan it with a scan tool.


donkey, I never recieved any PM's or emails from you or paypal reguarding payment. I just assumed you no longer wanted the pcm. Send me a PM if you still want one and we can make sure there wasnt a typo by one of us on my email address.

d0nk3y
12-07-2011, 05:02 AM
sending you a pm... :)

Six_Shooter
12-09-2011, 04:23 AM
Some datalogging cables and cables for proper scanners do have the pins for M and E jumpered together.

d0nk3y
12-09-2011, 04:59 PM
Update.
I don't have a datalog to post, but something just isn't right with what I've done. This is what I have:

16197427 controller, BJXL ($0D)
necessary $0D bins, definitions, acquisition files
Moates APU1 setup & TunerPro RT
My home-made translation harness (Vehicle is wired for 7747 controller)

Can tune and acquire data using a modified 7747 controller, just too darned slow of a data rate to look at any transient conditions.

Hooking up my translation harness (which I've now pinned out and rechecked for shorts/wrong connections twice) with the emulator loaded with $0D files makes it run in limp mode - or so I think. I can't tell for certain, because the signals that come across are "wrong" or missing, for example:
ECT = -38
RPM always = 0
- but things like O2 voltage and TPS voltage seemed correct and tracking. Last night I was trying several different definitions and acquisition files and ended up getting a datastream that has every single channel recorded dithering between different values at a very rapid rate. Forgot to bring the save or post it up last night - actually, I was pretty durned whizzed off and needed a break.

The only thing I have not verified is the memcal "thing" is free from shorts or opens. I desoldered the chip and soldered in a tall "stand-off" socket to plug the emulator into - maybe I borked something there. I also have the red wire in the ribbon (representing the notch in the chip) on the "outside" - directly opposite of how the 7747 wants to be.


So, is there anything this total n00b is overlooking? This is getting to be too much like work! :mad1:
:laugh:

dave w
12-09-2011, 05:16 PM
You have many variables to confirm. I would build / troubleshoot off of know working systems. For example, does everything work for the '7747? Ok, if everything is working for the '7747, try using just the '427, (no emulation). If just using the '427 is good, add emulation as a variable. Yes, this stuff is work!

dave w

EagleMark
12-09-2011, 05:56 PM
example:
ECT = -38
You meen CTS? -38 is very close to -40 which is a bad CTS. If that temp is correct choke is added like crazy. Here's a link to test.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?74-Coolant-Temperature-Sensor-Diagnostic-Test-CTS&highlight=Coolant+Temperature+Sensor


I also have the red wire in the ribbon (representing the notch in the chip) on the "outside" - directly opposite of how the 7747 wants to be.
Yup! 1227747 notch inside. 16197427 notch outside. I have adapters from Moates for all testing and tuning, only use a soldered in chip in the Memcal when I burn a final chip. But with their hearder you can plug it into AutoProm and erase and burn.

d0nk3y
12-09-2011, 06:03 PM
The CTS (sorry, we use "ECT @ work :D ) is functioning correctly when the 7747 is plugged in and logging. What adapter is the correct one from moates? I couldn't tell from his documentation on the page.

EagleMark
12-09-2011, 11:28 PM
Adapter so you can use 27FS512 chip and still plug in your Memcal:
http://www.moates.net/g1-memory-adapter-tpi-etc-p-32.html?cPath=64

27SF512 chip:
http://www.moates.net/c2-sst-27sf512-chip-p-39.html?cPath=26

And the header so you can read the chip in the Memcal:
http://www.moates.net/hdr1-memcal-header-p-52.html?cPath=64

Then when you solder in a 27FS512 chip or socket to Memcal use the header to erase and burn new chip in Memcal.
http://www.moates.net/d2-28pin-dip-socket-p-59.html?cPath=26

I found it easier to solder in a chip, then a socket. Dave W did some write ups on other cheaper options.

FSJ Guy
12-10-2011, 09:30 AM
That G1 adapter is really slick.

I bought the switching adapter since I had the bin switcher for my '7747 ECM. But then I found out that the AutoProm will not program the larger chip needed for the switcher. I need to buy the Burn2 in order to program the larger EEPROM. Eventually, I'll buy the Burn2 so I can finally use the bin switcher so I can have a "valet" mode with limited speed and rpm. :D

d0nk3y
12-10-2011, 04:08 PM
Thanks Mark!
It still took me some time to look at the pictures on the site and doing a google image search, plus your instructions, to finally get it through my thick skull!

d0nk3y
12-10-2011, 04:10 PM
That G1 adapter is really slick.

I bought the switching adapter since I had the bin switcher for my '7747 ECM. But then I found out that the AutoProm will not program the larger chip needed for the switcher. I need to buy the Burn2 in order to program the larger EEPROM. Eventually, I'll buy the Burn2 so I can finally use the bin switcher so I can have a "valet" mode with limited speed and rpm. :D

Dang - I didn't realize the autoprom doesn't burn AM29F040 chips. :(

EagleMark
12-10-2011, 08:45 PM
Dang - I didn't realize the autoprom doesn't burn AM29F040 chips. :(I just opened my AutoProm and it has the 29F040 chip listed as burnable... not read only. But the information at Moates on AutoProm does not have it listed as burnable? I thought the AutoPro burn side was a Burn2 inside? I've never used one of those 29F040 chips, looked at Moates and it is huge!

AM29F040B-90PC This monster can handle your multi-program binaries. Goes great
with the G3 adapter. 4 megabit chip, can hold 16x 32k (730-type) or 8x 64k (95
TBI, etc) programsand it's got 32 pins... I think that is what some of the diesel stuff uses...

So how many bins would a 27SF512 hold? Pensonally I like to tune one for everything.... but could see a use for 2 on a race car!

FSJ Guy
12-10-2011, 09:46 PM
Yes, it shows the 29F040 chip in the window, but for some reason it will not work with the AutoProm. It's right there on the website, but I never paid attention since when I bought it I was using the '7747 box and only needed the 27SF512 chip. When I ordered the G3 adapter, I didn't even think to look and make sure the AutoProm would work. Oh well. I can emulate if I really needed to. I haven't tried emulating a 29F040 size chip, however.

The 29SF512 is a 64 KB chip AFAIK. So you only get one 7427 sized bin.

d0nk3y
12-11-2011, 02:36 AM
Well,
I had limited success today and I'm really confused now.

Got the 16197427 to work today...sorta. When emulating, the data acquisition (and the controller) only seemed to work if the BIN upload to the emulator failed. (???) I finally got all the signals to come across and actually started to change calibrations, but it was short lived. Kept getting resets or something after awhile - could see O2 signal dropping out and spark advance jumping up periodically. After the engine stalled, you could hear the fuel pump relay energize with the resetting.

I grabbed another controller and swapped memcals - same dang behavior. Does anybody else have flaky behavior when emulating? Pinned out my modded memcal to check for opens & shorts - seemed okay. A buddy may swing by tomorrow with a G1 and an oscilloscope and lend a hand. :mad1:

JeepsAndGuns
12-11-2011, 03:37 AM
Well, now that you mention it, I had a couple quirks too. Last weekend I made up a couple bins to try out. I started out with BMHK, witch is a 454 $0E manual trans bin. I have been doing all my tuning from that bin. I figured, just for the hell of it, I would try a 350 auto $0D bin, and then I also had a 350 auto $31 bin. Wanted to try them just to see how diffrently they ran.
I did all the exact same prep work/adjustments to them as I did to my $0E bin, and inputted my fuel and timing tables. I loaded one on the emulator and it wouldt work. Tried the other one and it wouldnt work either. It uploaded, I enabled emulation, but I couldnt get aldl connection and it was just running off the limp home chips. I could burn them to a chip and they would work, but I couldnt emulate with them. I checked all my cable connections and all was good. After trying them out on chips (an not likeing them) I decided to try emulation with my $0E bin, and it worked just fine. I tried the $0D bin again and it still wouldnt work. I uploaded it to the emulator, then hit verify emulator contents aganst loaded bin, and I got failure.
Both of the bins I tried ($0D, and $31) that didnt work were bins I read from memcals. The BMHK $0E bin I am using (that works) was downloaded from this site.

d0nk3y
12-11-2011, 04:56 AM
well, well, well.

I'll have to give that a look-see in the morning! Thank you for sharing!!!

EagleMark
12-11-2011, 05:22 AM
I've had those problems before and it would say emulating but was not... As soon as that happens to me I shut down TunerPro, open it and it finds the AutoProm. If it does not find AutoProm when I start it, because I have it set in preferences that way, Then I always turn computer off, plug in AutoProm, restart computer, then open TP and it always works first time.

You have to save bin after changes. IIRC both switches on AutoProm are in, together. Then upload to emulater. Then of course enable emulation... then turn key on and CEL should flash once and stay on till car is started then turn off.

Some times when I open TP it does not find my AutoProm. I close TP move USB to another port, open TP till it finds it. I have 3 USB ports and for some reason they change USB COM3 to another when I use my USB mouse, my USB printer or my USB camera.

EagleMark
12-11-2011, 05:29 AM
Some datalogging cables and cables for proper scanners do have the pins for M and E jumpered together.I had talked to a freind whos a mechanic at dealership and he told me no way... but he hasn't seen anything but OBDII for years... then I looked at my Auto Xray 7000 scan tool that does all OBDI and OBDII cars and has several plugs for ALDL ports. Well it only has one plug for OBDI GM so your right, it must have E and M jumpered.

1project2many
12-11-2011, 09:21 AM
I have had trouble using emulation on a friend's APU1. I never followed up but the symptoms were as EagleMark described. I would restart the software and usually that was enough but sometimes I had to restart the laptop. I had hoped it was a problem specific to his configuration.

d0nk3y
12-11-2011, 04:41 PM
I appreciate all of the help! :) There are a couple of things I tried w/o thinking - just because I have about 20 years experience with fussy data acquisition and windows. :laugh: I disconnected / reconnected / rebooted / reloaded drivers and even promised ice cream if the durned thing would just behave - with only limited success.

My next thought on this (the same one the kept me awake last night, LOL) is from JeepsandGuns similar experience between $0E & $0D: I'm wondering if the bins we both started with for $0D have a certain set of bits enabled that cause a meltdown from using such drastically different hardware / missing transmission signals. My thinking is this: the PCM initializes and either doesn't see what it is looking for or has a signal sitting on a pin it doesn't expect or cannot handle - then loses its goshdarned mind.

I got up outta bed and start going through all the trans bits (cause I couldn't sleep) and started to disable everything trans I could think of (vehicle has a 400R in it). I also noticed the datastream showed it is in 4WDLO - which may cause other issues as well, but without a VSS/OSS, that may be moot.

I'm also going to try another PC today and see if my "failing-eyesight-friendly" laptop is just getting uppity in its old age. :D

~Scot

gregs78cam
12-11-2011, 06:11 PM
I am sure you guys already know this bit, but you did disable the checksum right? I had a similar problem with the Camaro, I tried uploading the bin, then emulate, then remembered to disable checksum. it never worked, until I disabled checksum in TP, save .bin, then upload, then enable DA, and emulate.

JeepsAndGuns
12-11-2011, 06:12 PM
I have never had any problems with tunerpro reconizing the autoprom. My laptop only has two usb ports, one I keep my mouse plugged into, the other one I always use for the autoprom. I will plug in the auto prom, windows always makes the do-do noise when its pluged in, I then start tunerpro and it instantly reconizes it.
I have never tried closing, then restarting tunerpro, and both switches on the autoprom are in the correct spots. The odd thing, was that I could try the non working bins, back to back with the working one. The 0E bin would work, the 0D and 31 would not.

One other thing I noticed about those two bins I couldnt get to emulate. Normally when I burn a file to a chip, or load to the emulator, it takes a few seconds for the progress bar to go across. Now when I tried those two other bins, about the first 1/8th, to 1/4 of the progress bar would jump forward in a split second, then the rest would go normal. When using my working 0E bin, its the same speed all the way across. The file sizes on the other two were the correct/same size.
Since I am using a manual trans, I had took the proper steps in the bin to turn off auto trans controlls.

JeepsAndGuns
12-11-2011, 06:14 PM
I am sure you guys already know this bit, but you did disable the checksum right? I had a similar problem with the Camaro, I tried uploading the bin, then emulate, then remembered to disable checksum. it never worked, until I disabled checksum in TP, save .bin, then upload, then enable DA, and emulate.

We posted at the same time.

Um, I have never done anything to "checksum" I do not even have any idea what that is. Can you mabey tell me or explain it to me what it is?

gregs78cam
12-11-2011, 06:34 PM
We posted at the same time.

Um, I have never done anything to "checksum" I do not even have any idea what that is. Can you mabey tell me or explain it to me what it is?

In TP open the mask ID parameter and change it to AA. That disables the checksum function. then save .bin, then upload, then emulate.

d0nk3y
12-11-2011, 06:42 PM
I will check this out - more info I was unaware of!

Six_Shooter
12-11-2011, 07:19 PM
On TP RT V4, there was a selection on the preferences that allowed automatic checksum disable when a BIN was uploaded to an emulator. Mark removed this in V5 because it seemed to be too confusing for the common user. The issue was that different codes used different addresses for the Mask ID byte.

When switching between codes, are you powering down the PCM for at least 10 seconds between?

d0nk3y
12-11-2011, 11:07 PM
Damn program.

Any time I try to load a acquisition def file that has things like "TP5 V250" in it, the program locks up while using 100% of the CPU and doesn't come around after 10 minutes of deep thought. So...I can't find any $0E acquisition defs that will let me see if I've even addressed the issue.

...because setting the mask ID to AA didn't fix my $0D woes.

d0nk3y
12-11-2011, 11:43 PM
PCM "off"
Mask ID == AA
Bin saved
Bin uploaded to emulator
Key on, and get the following result. (along with nothing running correctly)

93V8S10
12-11-2011, 11:44 PM
Where did you download your copies? Seems that there is some problem with the ones at the TP site.

There are downloads of these files here and at Moates too.

d0nk3y
12-11-2011, 11:51 PM
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/def/

dave w
12-12-2011, 12:35 AM
Attached is a $OE .bin I've used in an Ostrich 2 Emulator. I did not need to change the mask ID with the Ostrich 2. The attached BHDC .bin has been modified from it's original code!

dave w

d0nk3y
12-12-2011, 12:55 AM
I'm going to call Moates tomorrow.

The dang thing won't even work with the original 7747 that I did my initial calibrations with. I think my emulator has failed, or does not like the cold temperatures.

This has not been a good weekend.

Six_Shooter
12-12-2011, 03:32 AM
Attached is a $OE .bin I've used in an Ostrich 2 Emulator. I did not need to change the mask ID with the Ostrich 2. The attached BHDC .bin has been modified from it's original code!

dave w

It doesn't matter whether you are using an Ostrich or an Auto Prom, while emulating, the checksum has to be disabled.

Sometimes you can still make changes and see some response while doing so without disabling checksum, but it won't be right. I had this happen on a '7060 using $85, then remembered after the tuning session about disabling checksum (first tune of the year), went back in and in minutes was running much better after disabling checksum.

FSJ Guy
12-12-2011, 08:13 AM
If you SAVE your bin file first, the checksum will be updated. Then upload to the emulator. That's another way of doing the same thing.

JeepsAndGuns
12-12-2011, 03:26 PM
I just emulated with my 0E bin yesterday and everything worked fine.
I started tunerpro, loaded my bin, uploaded to emulator, enabled and then went on my way. Made some adjustments to my main spark table, shut off engine, disabled emulation, made a couple more tweeks to the timing table (to smooth out my changes) saved it and burnt it to a chip. Everything worked just fine.
But you say that since I didnt disable checksum, I messed something up? The way I listed it above is how I have always been doing it.
Still would like to know just what exactly "checksum" is.

d0nk3y
12-12-2011, 03:43 PM
It doesn't matter whether you are using an Ostrich or an Auto Prom, while emulating, the checksum has to be disabled.

Sometimes you can still make changes and see some response while doing so without disabling checksum, but it won't be right. I had this happen on a '7060 using $85, then remembered after the tuning session about disabling checksum (first tune of the year), went back in and in minutes was running much better after disabling checksum.

I'm curious - when setting the "MaskID" to "AA" to disable the checksum - is there any way to validate it worked? I would enter AA, "save", "upload to emulator" and still not have any luck.

EagleMark
12-12-2011, 07:17 PM
PCM "off"
Mask ID == AA
Bin saved
Bin uploaded to emulator
Key on, and get the following result. (along with nothing running correctly)Your picture shows emulating but aa, I believe it has to be AA


Where did you download your copies? Seems that there is some problem with the ones at the TP site.

There are downloads of these files here and at Moates too.The entire zip package is available and also has been split up and each tested and put in different threads according to Mask ID as well:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/forumdisplay.php?20-GM-Bins-and-tuning-files



If you SAVE your bin file first, the checksum will be updated. Then upload to the emulator. That's another way of doing the same thing.Yeah but then if you make a change it shows but really doesn't emulate, like Six Shooter said above unless you change Mask ID to AA. AutoProm directions say the same, change to AA to emulate.

TunerPro always updates Checksum to bin file when saved. If you upload that bin to emulator it will work, but changes after will not. Checksum and Mask ID are 2 different things. TP has set Mask ID change to AA to disable checksum.


I'm curious - when setting the "Mask ID" to "AA" to disable the checksum - is there any way to validate it worked? I would enter AA, "save", "upload to emulator" and still not have any luck.Back to AA and not aa... but I am not sure and have not tested... Change to AA, save, reopen and it will say AA. If your not sure close bin, load bin and check again but it will be AA.

When you have your bin loaded in TP and AutoProm ready, upload current bin to emulator, then you can Verify Emulator Ram Against current Current Bin. Then enable emulation. It is under Tools, Emulation. Or better yet right click on TP tool bar and check all the tool bars so you have buttons to click instead of going through the tool list.

Back to USB connections and AutoProm, it did it to me again last night, said it was connected but had 0 data. Restarted TP and it did not find my AutoProm on that USB port, I had skipped past what I always do... Set up your preferences to AutoProm and check Detect Hardware on Startup. Close TP. Unplug AutoProm. Restart Windows with AutoProm plugged in, or plug in after windows starts, set outer switch to inboard position, open TP and it should find AutoProm, if you have the switch outboard it will not find the AutoProm, make sure preferences are set right, close TP, try another USB port, open TP and it will find the AutoProm, then set switches according to what you are doing.

93V8S10
12-13-2011, 12:55 AM
You probably already know this, but if you have set a checksum error you will need to disconnect the battery for about 10 min to get a good clear. Don't know why it is, but checksum errors seem to take awhile to clear.

JeepsAndGuns
12-13-2011, 03:34 AM
if you make a change it shows but really doesn't emulate, like Six Shooter said above unless you change Mask ID to AA.
If you upload that bin to emulator it will work, but changes after will not.

Then why is mine been working just fine all along? I know when I emulate, and make a change to something like the timing table, I instantly feel it, so I know its working. I can be adjusting the idle timing and the engine responds instantly, same with regular timing, I can pull over, make a change, then take off again and feel the diffrence. Once I stop emulating, I can save the changes I made, burn to a chip, and it runs exactly the same as it did when I was emulating, with all the changes I made.

Six_Shooter
12-13-2011, 04:04 AM
There is no upper or lower case in HEX, just many people use capitals when talking about HEX to be clear about the symbol.

Like I said I had a '7060, where I was able to emulate, without changing the mask ID to AA, but had a LOT of error codes. The emulating was much smoother after remembering to disable checksum.

You can upload any bin to an emulator that doesn't have the checksum disabled and should run fine, it's only when you want to change something through real time changes, that it causes a problem.

There are two things I can think of that would cause one code mask to work and not others.

The first one is corrupt bins.

The other, and I have only read about this being an issue, I haven't experienced it personally, is that if the wrong XDF is loaded to Tuner Pro, when you upload a bin to the Emulator it can cause an issue.

d0nk3y
12-13-2011, 05:00 AM
Took tonight off.

We're having a Christmas chili cookoff on Wednesday, so after making dinner, I started on that. Then I switched guns on my plasma cutter and made a winch mount for my garden tractor (to raise and lower the plow). I'll resume pulling hair out tomorrow. :D

I appreciate all the feedback, tips and suggestions - thank you all *very much*!!!

EagleMark
12-13-2011, 05:31 AM
You probably already know this, but if you have set a checksum error you will need to disconnect the battery for about 10 min to get a good clear. Don't know why it is, but checksum errors seem to take awhile to clear.No I did not know that? I have cleared errors on 1227747 in 10 seonds... but usually wait a minute.



The other, and I have only read about this being an issue, I haven't experienced it personally, is that if the wrong XDF is loaded to Tuner Pro, when you upload a bin to the Emulator it can cause an issue.Never thought of that because I always have bin xdf and adx loaded before I even start... I could see wrong xdf to bin being and issue when emulating and trying a change!
:yikes:


EDIT: Blew the dirt out of my keyboard so "C" would work... :homer:

Six_Shooter
12-13-2011, 06:07 AM
No I did not know that? I have leared errors on 1227747 in 10 seonds... but usually wait a minute.

Never thought of that because I always have bin xdf and adx loaded before I even start... I could see wrong xdf to bin being and issue when emulating and trying a change!
:yikes:

Definitely when trying to change something, but it was said that if the wrong XDF is just loaded, without changing anything could have that effect. Again, it's not something I have personally experienced, but people have said that they have.

d0nk3y
12-19-2011, 09:04 PM
Gah.

What a mess. All of my problems: a faulty APU1/AutoProm setup. I've been spending the days taking data, making changes and burning a new cal using a Pocket Programmer. My Moates tools refuse to work in the cold (except for the data acquisition, thankfully!) and they're out of replacement units until early next year.

I've been "tuning" a $0D cal this way with no problems - just a gee-darned PITA with no emulation.:mad1: