ECU Swap On 1991 TBI 454 / 4L80E

[X-cabsquarebody]

I have swapped TPI and TBI engines for a few years. Have always been able to find an ECU to fit the needs of the project. Now I'm trying to learn how to program and the tuning side of things. So to start and to learn I'm going to swap to a later ECU on my personal truck. Just would like some input on if I'm on the right track.

My truck is a 1991 GMC with a 454/4L80E combo. The current ECU is a replacement reman, but the sticker on the mounting bracket has #16154331 AWAY

I down loaded the bin file off of it. Would love to share this bin file but cant figure out how to..... Attached is a similar bin file off this site.


I have a ECU form a 95 GMC truck, but its for a 350/4L60E combo. It too is a reman ECU but has 7-7247 # 0n it. I know the ECU is good, cause I pulled it from the truck do to an LT1 swap.

I have a Moates Burn2 and Tuner Pro, G1 adapter, and chips. I want to burn a new chip with the 454/4L80E bin and swap it in my truck, and yes,, I do Know I have to rewire the plugs.

Found a bin for a 95 454/4L80E on here, but the parameters look all out of whack,,,, and are not close to the bin in my 91 ECU. Comparing the files with Tuner Pro and $OE .
Finally, my questions. Can I burn the 91 Bin file to the later ECU? Do I need to find a different Bin file for 94/95 454/4L80E? Or is the 95 file ok?

Thanks,,, hope I posted in the right place.

[Six_Shooter]

Ok, I'm confused...

You have a 1991 Truck with a 454 and 4L80E. In this truck there is a PCM with a bin file of AWAY. I'm pretty sure this is correct so far.

You want to program the AWAY bin into the MEMCAL/PROM of your truck... which is already there... *confused*

You mention another PCM, but it's not clear why. Do you want to use this other PCM for some reason? Is there something wrong with your current PCM?

When swapping ECM/PCM, you have to make sure that the bin file is compatible with that ECM/PCM. There are some bins (code masks) that will swap between different ECM/PCM, but at times that's a more advanced technique.

There are also different code masks used within the same ECM/PCM, or even with the same engine combo, so you will need to verify the actual code mask and use the appropriate XDF to view the data.

[X-cabsquarebody]

I have heard the later model ECU (94 95) is faster and smoother running. I want to swap a 95 ECU in my 91 truck. The trucks runs good, just want to see what the difference in drivability is, and try to earn something. I have no idea what ECU is in the 91, just that its been changed at some point, and the sockets on the ECU are the same color indicating an earlier ECU.

I have a 95 ECU, but NOT off a 454 4L80E. What do I need to do to make it work on my 91?

Sorry if I'm not clear on what I trying to do, don't how else to explain. Very new to programming side of things...

[Six_Shooter]

The swap you are reading about is from a different ECM, the 1227747, not the PCM you have. You'll likely see little to no difference in swapping PCMs in this case, (using the correct bin for the new PCM).

[X-cabsquarebody]

Thanks, I'm just currious , does the 95 bin file I posted here look OK? What deffenition file would be good to use? Thanks.

[1project2many]

If you have a 94-95 pcm, the "7-7427," then it is most likely a reman version of GM's 16197427. It will have three connectors, red and blue, instead of two like the earlier vehicle. If there's a 4 letter code on the chip inside we can confirm the pcm number.

In order to use the 7427 with a 7.4 / 4L80E you'll need to burn the 7.4 calibration onto the chip from the 7427 as well as make appropriate wiring changes.

In order to upload the AWAY cal you can click on the "go advanced" button below the reply window, then "manage attachments" to open a popup
BCC= that will allow you to upload files from your pc. There's a copy linked in the "16147060 PCM Information $85 " thread http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?317-16147060-PCM-Information-85.

The calibrations will look different in hex editor. You could open a second instance of Tunerpro and use the correct definition file from the $85 thread to look at both calibrations for similarities. I agree that you might not find much is different swapping the the newer pcm but it doesn't hurt to learn.

Here;s the information I have for AWAY:
BCC year is 1991
BCC= AWAY4398 Scan id= 4331 Part number= 16154397
Release date= 06/01/90 Engine size= 7.4 Trans Type= Auto trans
ECM/PCM: ECM #16147060
Used in trucks: GMC
Possibly used in:
G30 VAN,2WD,1 TON G35 VAN,2WD,1 TON R2500,2WD,3/4 TON
R2500,2WD,3/4 TON R3500,2WD,1 TON R3500,2WD,1 TON
V3500,4WD,1 TON V3500,4WD,1 TON

Options:
With C6P GVW RATING (8600 LBS)
With C6S GVW RATING (8900 LBS)
With C6U GVW RATING (9000 LBS)
With GT5 AXLE, REAR, 4.10 RATIO
With HC4 AXLE, REAR, 4.56 RATIO
With L19 7.4L GAS 8 CYL TBI V8
With MT1 AUTO 4 SPD THM R2 (4L80)
Without NM8 EMISSION SYSTEM, LEADED FUEL

[billygraves]

I have swapped TPI and TBI engines for a few years. Have always been able to find an ECU to fit the needs of the project. Now I'm trying to learn how to program and the tuning side of things. So to start and to learn I'm going to swap to a later ECU on my personal truck. Just would like some input on if I'm on the right track.

My truck is a 1991 GMC with a 454/4L80E combo. The current ECU is a replacement reman, but the sticker on the mounting bracket has #16154331 AWAY

I down loaded the bin file off of it. Would love to share this bin file but cant figure out how to..... Attached is a similar bin file off this site.


I have a ECU form a 95 GMC truck, but its for a 350/4L60E combo. It too is a reman ECU but has 7-7247 # 0n it. I know the ECU is good, cause I pulled it from the truck do to an LT1 swap.

I have a Moates Burn2 and Tuner Pro, G1 adapter, and chips. I want to burn a new chip with the 454/4L80E bin and swap it in my truck, and yes,, I do Know I have to rewire the plugs.

Found a bin for a 95 454/4L80E on here, but the parameters look all out of whack,,,, and are not close to the bin in my 91 ECU. Comparing the files with Tuner Pro and $OE .
Finally, my questions. Can I burn the 91 Bin file to the later ECU? Do I need to find a different Bin file for 94/95 454/4L80E? Or is the 95 file ok?

Thanks,,, hope I posted in the right place.

I suggest you NOT do this. The 1991 - 1993 4L80-E used a Bosch Force Motor and has additional hardware inside the Valvebody. There is a SOFTWARE routine that the 91-93 PCM has for the 4L80-E for the "Cleaning" of the FM. If this Cleaning is not performed the result will be excessive HI or worse STuck LOW pressures for your trans. There is only ONE way around this. Change the PCM/Calibration AND change the 4L80-E valvebody, Trans Electricals, Spacer Plate, and VB Gaskets to a 94-2002. In the 96 forward there are TWO different Valvebodies. One for a low HP and one for a HI HP. The way to determine the HI HP is the FM Actuator Valve has a ring cut into it. In order to see this you must take it out of the VB or shuttle the valve ALL the way over to loaded side.
If this was my own, I would NOT do it. Besides the MEM-CAL the outcome is the SAME for so much effort.

[X-cabsquarebody]

^^^^ I forgot about that. Nix that idea. Going to mess with what's in the truck. Thanks for your input folks.

[X-cabsquarebody]

Im trying to do soon data logging on my 91 GMC. 16154331 is in the ecu mount, but the ecu is a Delco replacement with out a # on it. I have used the link above to get a bin file , definition file, and a data file. There is no info on 16154331 ecu so 16147060 looks to be the closest, and got files from link above. I would love to post the files here, but after an hour of trying to link, copy and paste, etc,,, I could figure out how. TunerPro would quit responding and I would have to close it. Got frustrated and called it a night.

So, when I open the bin, xdf, and data file in TunerPro every thing works until I connect to my truck. All the dash stuff is jumping around and useless. I have tried all kinds of different files from TP site and here and have had no luck.

Need some help on how to post files here please.
Need to correct files for my truck please.
I have read for hours and have not found any thing that works so far.

[X-cabsquarebody]

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g385/squarebodyx-cab/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140808_203436_748_zps6yx6btnv.jpg (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/squarebodyx-cab/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140808_203436_748_zps6yx6btnv.jpg.html)

[X-cabsquarebody]

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g385/squarebodyx-cab/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140808_203741_298_zpsgtrenkyi.jpg (http://s1099.photobucket.com/user/squarebodyx-cab/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140808_203741_298_zpsgtrenkyi.jpg.html)

Here is the numbers on my ecu.

The other letters on the mount are cut of but are AWAY.

[X-cabsquarebody]

Found a thread, http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?807-16147060-85-Superceeded-to-D8 . Down loaded the two files. Got TunerPro to start logging, but just volts and temp. Then when I go to save the log, TunerPro stops responding and nothing gets saved. I don't know WTH I'm doing... And don't know if I'm doing something wrong, or if I need different definition file, and log file??? Any Help would be get. Thanks

[brian617]

The 91 model 454/4L80e truck should have a 16147060 PCM in it. Use the files in this thread http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?317-16147060-PCM-Information-85

[X-cabsquarebody]

Well finally figured out the winning combo of files, and got my first Datalog on my truck. Now to figure out what it means and how to use it.

A Quick run down of what worked...

I pulled the ECU out of my truck and got BAMW off the Inside. I'm guessing its a 16147060 from what I found on this forum.

The files

[tatios]

Well finally figured out the winning combo of files, and got my first Datalog on my truck. Now to figure out what it means and how to use it.

A Quick run down of what worked...

I pulled the ECU out of my truck and got BAMW off the Inside. I'm guessing its a 16147060 from what I found on this forum.

The files

I am interested in tuning my 91 454 with 4L80E... I am new to tuning GM TBI I was wondering if you have had any success with tuning your 91? Sorry to dig up an old thread but your experience maybe extremely helpful. I need to tune the TBI to see if it can handle the engine I recently installed in my truck. It is a 99 454 block bored .040. it has been squared and zero decked. Running 10 to 1 Kieth Black pistons, a mild Comp roller cam and oval port Merlin Iron heads. Aside from the iron heads it is a hot rod motor. I ended up with the motor as the vehicle it was in caught fire. I am trying to make it work with this old throttle body system. Not expecting high RPM just looking for good towing power. I should mention it has shorty headers and true dual exhaust. So far I have jacked up the pressure in the TBI regulator and it runs ok but it is lean. I have checked with a five gas analyzer as well as looking with a Snap On Verus scan tool.

[dktool]

Get the Moates Burn2, Tuner ProV5, G1 adapter, zif socket and chips along with the correct xdf and adx files.
Also a stand alone wide band AFR gauge is needed (in my book)
Make a copy of you existing bin file then start cutting your teeth.

I have a 1992 7.4 / 4L80E in a RV chassis that is now running better than I thought it could without any internal mods.
It just take a lot of time and tweaking and many chip burns, test drive and data logs.

Put in the time and labor (most of it mental) there is no magic bullet just baby steps.

My engine is bone stock where as yours is not,.........YMMV

[tatios]

[QUOTE=dktool;68112]Get the Moates Burn2, Tuner ProV5, G1 adapter, zif socket and chips along with the correct xdf and adx files.
Also a stand alone wide band AFR gauge is needed (in my book)
Make a copy of you existing bin file then start cutting your teeth.

I have a 1992 7.4 / 4L80E in a RV chassis that is now running better than I thought it could without any internal mods.
It just take a lot of time and tweaking and many chip burns, test drive and data logs.

Put in the time and labor (most of it mental) there is no magic bullet just baby steps.

My engine is bone stock where as yours is not,.........YMMV[/QUOTE

Dean,

Thanks for the reply... My curiosity at this point is how much torque the old TBI can support once it is tuned. This engine should easily make 500 LBS/ft of torque... I don't plan to rev over 5K. If it can support these numbers I will continue to work on this system. There are other options but at significant expense. I already have the Innovate wide band AFR gauge... just need to install it. First priority...

Ed Tatios

[myburb]

I have 454 with 500 lift, ported heads and ported aluminum intake with headers and 3.5 exhaust. My stock torque was about 400 and it now pulls a huge amount better than when it was stock so I'm not sure if I have 500 torque but it must be getting close. I redline at 4200 and do hard hill pulls at 35-3700. All that with a 7.4 tbi with the late model smaller injecters at 35 psi. So I would guess tbi would be fine for you as a towing motor and at the edge for a high preformance street motor.

[tatios]

Myburb,

Thanks for the info... What ECU are your running? I assume it is tuned? Are you running stock TBI fuel pump? I know the later TBI ran higher fuel pressure. Early injectors or late injectors?

Ed Tatios

[myburb]

I use 6395 and 7427 and get the same results from both. My fuel pump is a 94/95 big block which is higher pressure than all the others. I am currently using 94/95 big block injectors at 35 psi. I have fooled with low pressure injectors at 20/25 psi. I have done lots of tuning through tuner pro and for the last several years have only run open loop with auto IAT correction. I don't run any heat in my intake. Your motor should pull real well if your cam isn't too radical. With my 500 cam it idles super smooth at 650 rpm and about 10 counts of IAC in neutral.

[tatios]

Just ordered the works from Moates.net to see if I can get this beast running properly

[tatios]

I got the Moates stuff on Friday and have been working on familiarizing myself with the setup...today was the first opportunity to work on it... when I opened up my ecu I found that it had a Jet Power Chip in it and a G1 style adapter to use the factory MEMCAL. I pulled the chip from the adapter and read it with the Burn 2 and then down loaded the BWAP bin and have been comparing them using TunerPro V5. Not convinced that the Jet chip is appropriate for the truck. I decided to burn the BWAP bin on to a chip to test things out... it worked and I drove the truck around using the chip. I have started to modify the timing portion of the chip as I felt the numbers were too high for a tow vehicle with high compression. now I have to get more fuel... I am not sure I understand what the best way yo do that is. I am already running 35psi pressure.

[myburb]

I would think the most fuel you would get with a gm tbi would be early 454 80# injectors at 35 psi. That should flow about 130+ each which should be good for about 425 hp. What mask are you using. The bwap bin sounds like it would be a later from $31 or $OE. I like to start with a bin that most closely matches the transmission I am using and mod the fuel and ignition as required.

[tatios]

I am using the original 91 injectors with the high pressure... the ECU in the truck appears to be the original one. The truck has a 4L80E... and I agree about using the .bin that matches the early transmission. I googled the PCM number 16147060 and on this web site I got a listing for a number of .bins... the truck came with AWAM and from what I was reading the thought was that all of the .bins for 16147060 have been superseded to "BXXX" versions. So I am trying to use BWAP as it will be more appropriate to my final build of the truck which will have a 4:10 gear set. I am using a $8D mask this i believe is appropriate for the BXXX series... it seems if I use the AXXX version I should use the $85 mask. Does this sound correct?

[myburb]

Years ago I had a 7060-bamm and found it hard to work with which was partly the fact I didn't know much. I have since switched everything to later red/blue ecms and $OE so can't help much with your setup. My opinion is the $OE is worth the switch but that's just my two bits.

[tatios]

Would changing to a later PCM require rewiring the engine and transmission? There was another post that the earlier transmission is not compatible with the later PCM so that doesn't not sound like the direction I want to go... since the trans was rebuilt less than 500 miles ago.

[myburb]

If I remember on my first swap ( 93 7060 bamm to 94 6395 ) all I did was change the force motor and repin the connecter. My trans already had the newer style connector plug. They are available as an upgrade, not too expensive. I put about 10000 on that setup and then it was sold for a hotrod swap. On the internet you will hear some say it is fine, others say the sky will fall if you mismatch anything. I will leave that to you. Also would be interested to have a look at the bin BWAP. Where did you get your copy?

[tatios]

If I remember on my first swap ( 93 7060 bamm to 94 6395 ) all I did was change the force motor and repin the connecter. My trans already had the newer style connector plug. They are available as an upgrade, not too expensive. I put about 10000 on that setup and then it was sold for a hotrod swap. On the internet you will hear some say it is fine, others say the sky will fall if you mismatch anything. I will leave that to you. Also would be interested to have a look at the bin BWAP. Where did you get your copy?

myburb,

I got the .bin from this site... I used the search function and just plugged in the PCM number 16147060 The title of the thread was 16147060 $85 superseded to $D8. I actually have a newer 4L80E but want to use the older one since it was just rebuilt... last thing I want to do is burn up the trans on a 2500 mile tow to Florida. Once i get more familiarity with the vehicle I might experiment but right now I want to get it reliable and working properly... I have tuned Bosch systems but this GM speed density stuff is different... no fuel tables to work with. I can certainly experiment but with rather get some advise from someone that has been there.

[myburb]

I looked through that thread twice but couldn't find a BWAP. Do you remenber what page it was.

[tatios]

myburb,

I am an idiot... i used BAMP.bin I was writing from memory originally and continued making the mistake. Sorry. I have compared this to the original .bin file AWAM.bin and have found it to be very similar. The only place i saw a difference was in DFCO.

ET

[dktool]

Mine is a 1991, 7.4L, 4L80E, 7060 with a BAMS bin / $D8 mask
This is in a P37 chassis and is a very conservative tune, if you would like a copy of the "as stock" bin let me know.

[tatios]

Get the Moates Burn2, Tuner ProV5, G1 adapter, zif socket and chips along with the correct xdf and adx files.
Also a stand alone wide band AFR gauge is needed (in my book)
Make a copy of you existing bin file then start cutting your teeth.

I have a 1992 7.4 / 4L80E in a RV chassis that is now running better than I thought it could without any internal mods.
It just take a lot of time and tweaking and many chip burns, test drive and data logs.

Put in the time and labor (most of it mental) there is no magic bullet just baby steps.

My engine is bone stock where as yours is not,.........YMMV

Dean,

Would you share your tune? I would love to compare it to a stock tune. I know it wouldn't be right for my beast but I would like to see the areas that you worked to make it run better. I wrote this as you as you posted your offer. Thanks.


ET

[dktool]

Dean,

Would you share your tune? I would love to compare it to a stock tune. I know it wouldn't be right for my beast but I would like to see the areas that you worked to make it run better. I wrote this as you as you posted your offer. Thanks.


ET

In short, no...(for the reason you stated)....but I will offer tips on a few key areas that I found lacking / causing drive-ability issues.

[tatios]

I do have the Ostrich 2 emulator so I am planning to use the street dyno to figure some of this out... hints would be greatly appreciated. I am trying to tap into the accumulated knowledge of the group...

[myburb]

Thanks, I didn't think the second character W fit the time line and made me curious.

[myburb]

Although as I have said before I only run open loop cause it makes the motor happy. I start off with the block 20-70 map and idle-2500 rpm and data log data log data log with history. I then fix it cell by cell until it runs exactly how you want. Then branch to more rpm and map. For timing I have found with my mod motor it didn't like having a lot of knock retard capability. So I stopped letting it and ended up actually adding timing in the high map/high rpm area. Once again data log and history for knock.