TPI Transplant has not run right in three years?

[EagleMark]

This sweet 69 ElCamino get's worked on every spring and never get's running right by end of summer? So the guy dropped it off with me and does not want it back till it's fixed!

Chip is done by a company who works with FAST TPI intakes. They used a Memcal from a 16197427 BJLF $0D. Since that chip is set for a 64k file and $8D is 32K... they stacked it.

It's been to a shop his freind owns and he said if it was a stock car? There's nothing wrong, been throughb everything with a fine tooth comb. I looked it over and found some conversion EFI harness way to close to spark plug wires and moved them.

Don't know what kind of injectors these are so that may be an issue? Will call Fast Monday to see what they used.

Back to chip... data log was showing up to 50* timing at cruise??? That's what is programmed in chip...

[dave w]

Let me know if you want to borrow an original V8 Memcal to troubleshoot with?

Attached is Log File Analyzer developed by 84Elky:thumbsup: from Thridgen.org http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-prom/667053-log-file-analyzer-program.html

I'll be up your way early in August, I can provide some Log File Analyzer tutorial time with you if you want? Log File Analyzer is AWESOME!

dave w

[Six_Shooter]

Did they do the MPFI mods to the '7427?

[EagleMark]

Did they do the MPFI mods to the '7427?Nope, it's a 7730!

Wondering how the 7427 Memcal is affecting this?

Yes Dave, I think I'd like to see if a different/correct Memcal has any effect if you'd like to mail it? Maybe by the time I get it I will know for sure how this 7427 Memcal works as a replacement... if not I have to make one from a V6 till I can buy a correct one... or...

There's some issues with bin other then spark advance. I'm not going to stack bins, going to use a G1 adapter and 27FS512 chip.

[steveo]

man i've never seen those injectors before, i thought i'd seen every mpfi injector! must be some weird old discontinued denso or siemens technology. good luck with that one

very nice engine bay, always had a soft spot for shiny tpi intakes.

[EagleMark]

You should see the rest of the car!

I hate tuning around injector data... sometimes it's not so bad but sometimes it's just an impossible dream...

[dave w]

I tried a '7427 Memcal in a '7730 ... was wondering if the '7427 Memcal would set the '7730 cylinder select for TBI Mode. I'm thinking the '7730 is seeing the wrong cylinder select voltage for TPI Mode with the '7427 Memcal installed. I've also been thinking a V8 '7427 Memcal & V8 7730 Memcal would have a identical Knock Filter circuits. Maybe a V6 CPI '7427 Memcal has the correct cylinder select voltage for a V8 TPI '7730?

dave w

[EagleMark]

That's what I'm worried about, Cylinder Select! Yes the error code was turned off in this chip that came with it. But what does that do to fueling? Remember what I went through with the Toyota...

The knock sensor part is a good thing! :thumbsup:

Maybe I'd be better off running a jumper on this V8 truck Memcal? But here we go again... which ones?

I should just start looking for correct Memcal. I know the price is up there but a mere bag of shells compared to what's in this car already!

[Six_Shooter]

That's what I'm worried about, Cylinder Select! Yes the error code was turned off in this chip that came with it. But what does that do to fueling? Remember what I went through with the Toyota...

The knock sensor part is a good thing! :thumbsup:

Maybe I'd be better off running a jumper on this V8 truck Memcal? But here we go again... which ones?

I should just start looking for correct Memcal. I know the price is up there but a mere bag of shells compared to what's in this car already!

You would jumper the same pins as modifying a V6 PFI MEMCAL, and I'm sure this is a large part of the problem. TBI cylinder select voltage is very different than 8 cyl PFI mode cylinder select voltage. In the TBI, the cylinder select voltage is the same regardless of actual cylinder count. The cylinder count gets set by software only, at least that's how it seems to be from what I've been able to research. It's the ECM that determines which pins do what on the MEMCAL, even so, AFAIK the layout is the same for all MEMCAL based ECM/PCM, as far as function of each MEMCAL pin.

[EagleMark]

I'd have to look it up... but the same as if I were taking a V6 Memcal making it to V8?


Here's a picture of front of ElCamino! :laugh:

[Six_Shooter]

Yes, just pretend it's a PFI V6 MEMCAL and jumper the appropriate pins.

[dave w]

Amazon shows a new AXXB 305 Memcal for about $90. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref%3Dnb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=16163062

dave w

[EagleMark]

Yes, just pretend it's a PFI V6 MEMCAL and jumper the appropriate pins.Gladn we have a Collage Electroics person to edumacateus da right way! :rockon:


Amazon shows a new AXXB 305 Memcal for about $90. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref%3Dnb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=16163062
dave wBut the 305 would be wrong Knock Module? I'd need the more rare (read... expensive) 5.7L... did the F car ever have a 5.7L or just the Corvette?


Hey, I just thought of something! Didn't these come with large Cap HEI Distributars? This has a small cap so there's another adjustment!

[Six_Shooter]

F-body had the 5.7 TPI, but would have only been backed by an auto.

[1BadAction]

Sounds like you have plenty of time to figure out injector data while you search for a memcal :laugh: You know as well as anyone, without knowing what they are you're pissin up a rope. Or did they tell you what the flow was "supposed" to be? :happy: Good luck with it, I sure wish I had access to what we have now back when I was fooling with the 400ci TPI in my 6-speed IROC...

[RobertISaar]

i think you're going to end up starting over with a new, factory BIN rather than trying to figure out how to unscrew the current calibration that has been generated based on hardware that is acting differently than what a multi-port MEMCAL(or at least converted to MPFI) will do.

[EagleMark]

Already started a new bin, not going to try and fix a turd!

Just got done soldering the V8 Truck TBI memcal. Seems like the best route with a G1 adapter on it!

[Fast355]

Gladn we have a Collage Electroics person to edumacateus da right way! :rockon:

But the 305 would be wrong Knock Module? I'd need the more rare (read... expensive) 5.7L... did the F car ever have a 5.7L or just the Corvette?


Hey, I just thought of something! Didn't these come with large Cap HEI Distributars? This has a small cap so there's another adjustment!

Mark,

All I have ever used on the 305 and 350 in my G20 van was an AXXB or AXXC memcal and only used a 305 knock sensor on both. Never bothered trying to find the 350 memcal or knock sensor. Not worth my time or effort since I turn all but 2* of knock retard off in the calibration anyway.

[EagleMark]

Well fired it up today on the truck TBI Memcal, G1 adapter and a new bin off the AutoProm. Runs great! Hoping for no rain tomorrow to do some data logging!

Found out the injectors are 25LB 2004-2005 For Crown Victoria? How am I supposed to get data from them.

[1project2many]

Websites seem to indicate they're 24# Cobra injectors. Crown vic seems to use orange or grey injectors.
http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/99-04/290691-what-type-injectors-these.html

Might have to open a factory calibration to get Ford data then use magic to convert to GM data entry cells.
http://support.moates.net/ford-tuning-injectors/

I seem to remember some discussion on Greg Banish's site about the relationship between Ford slope and breakpoint to to GM values. There are spreadsheets around IIRC but I don't have any. DSTech says he posted a locked spreadsheet on hptuners. This thread has info but you're likely to need help from a math guy. http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?45810-Theorical-Injectors-Fuel-Rate-and-Offsets

If no solution is offered by tonight I'll see what I can do.

[EagleMark]

I got a couple hours into the math and all I got was a headache! :rolleye:

[1project2many]

Sorry... kids decided they wanted to make mom's life miserable last night. Dad to the rescue...

[EagleMark]

Super Dad! :thumbsup:

Moms back still acting up? I remember my back issues and surgeries when Jesse was young... man it's hard enough to keep up let alone with back pain! :mad1:

[1project2many]

Yep... Mom's often sore. It's muscles. MRI shown nothing wrong in spine. I double checked the doctor. ;)

[steveo]

you know the flow benching machines that some injector shops have, and i've seen that with a practiced operator, they can be used to extrapolate voltage offsets and everything.. they just vary the voltage coming in, check the difference in flow rate at a few points, then build a curve.

one of us needs to build such a machine, then do injector analysis on the cheap (ex. mail an injector and $20 to this address, and get back a real-world data sheet in a day or two)

if nobody else is up for it, i'll attempt it, but i'm in canada so it'd be inconvient as a service for you guys

even the mfr's original data may be skewed from the age of the injector; and pulling from a stock cal is sketchy too, hell EE has three different offset tables for the stock 24lb injectors! who knows which one would be close

[1project2many]

Mark... Here's some data to look at. Found it while trying to locate OEM calibration data.
http://carprogrammer.com/Z28/PCM/Injector/injectors.htm