controlling 4l60e

[Rodeo]

I have a 01 isuzu rodeo, it factory has a delco ecm and runs a gm 4l30e transmission. The stock trans is very weak and begining to slip, with my current lift and 33s its life span wont be long. Ide like to swap in a 4l60e, I have the mounting etc. All figured out, the only problem is controlling it. I dont want to spend the 600$+ on a standalone controller and was hoping to run it off the stock ecm. Is it possiable to remove the 4l30e files and replace with 60e? They are controlled diffrently so im not sure if something like that is possiable. My second thought was can a ecm be programed to run as a stand alone? I could add a second tps, vss etc, and just use it to shift the trans? I dont have much knowledge in tuning or ecm mods so im sorry if anything about my question is stupid. Thanks

[dave w]

The quick answer is the 16197427 PCM can be set up to run a "stand alone" 4L60E.

The required signal are as you describe, Tachometer, VSS, TPS, Battery "+ / -" and Ignition On / Start. The original TPS you have could work if it's 0V ~ 5v, might even be able to splice wires in the TPS you have.

dave w

[steveo]

there's a guy on this forum working on a very affordable standalone controller, but i think it might be a ways off of being ready?

[lionelhutz]

Share your PCM p/n.

What would be the advantage of adding a second controller for the transmission vs using a single PCM for engine and transmission?

[Rodeo]

I figured she cond controllor because I was told by a tuner Icouldnt replace 30 files with 60e because of how difffrently controlled they are ie number of solenoids etc.but would love to use one ecm if possiable.

I think I know the member your refering to, pmed him on another forum but said his controller is aways from being done.

Ill grab the p/n when I get home from work

[Fast355]

I do not suggest trying to use a 4L60E for a bandaid for lack of proper gearing. My neighbor towed a rather large/heavy boat with his Rodeo with the same transmission. It was rebuilt by a competent shop and had a shift kit installed to help give it the line pressure it needed to handle the abuse. Assuming your V6 has the 60*V6 bellhousing pattern the only 4L60E you can use would be for a F-car and they are 2wd. You would have to convert it to a 4 wheel drive output shaft and tailhousing.

That being said with proper gearing you can actually put less stress on your transmission than it had stock, assuming a stock engine.

That being said the 60*V6 4L60E is not that much better of a transmission.

[Rodeo]

The 30e is finicky, finding someone who can rebuild it without issue can be a bit troublesome tho not impossiable, the shidt kits and "upgraded" parts available are considered questionable by much of the isuzu community. There is more than just the fcar trans as a option also the 4l60e has a bolt on bell housing so I can use any 60e with the gm metric fwd housing bolted on, I will be using the bell housing from a 2.2 s10 on a chevy colorado 4l60e and tcase because it uses an isuzu case that is p/s drop and has a clearanced pan and valve body for the front shaft. The 30e seems to be disliked by most every isuzu user and bmw owner ive seen on forums. The 60 has alot more aftermaket and upgradable parts, comes from the factory rated for more torque and my personal favorite a dipstick the 30e dosent. also its embaresing to have a vehicle that shares a trans with a mail truck lol.

[Rodeo]

Also I have limited gear options being that the front diff is an isuzu 10 bolt I can go from my current 4.10s to 4.30s, maybe track down some 4.56s from an older trooper, the nearly impossiable to find 4.77s or the long out of production and prone to failure 5.38s, also the 2 best options would mean I couldnt go above 40 mphwith out the engine screaming. I wish I could regear to correct for tires and may but at the moment just want a trans I dont have to be always worried about. Sorry too rant lol just I have thought this through a bit. By the way you guys are geniuses, idk how you guys know all the ins and out of these ecms lol

[Six_Shooter]

You need to be sure of the year of 4L60E you are using to have proper control. Not all 4L60Es are the same when it comes to that. I don't recall all the details, but I do know there were changes in the '90s where control is concerned, and swapping one way to the other causes transmission damage, while going the other works, though not ideal.

There were 4L60Es that did not have removable bellhousings as well.

[steveo]

i think it's TCC signal that's the big deal; later ones are PWM and if you use early code it'll fry the TCC or something.

[Fast355]

i think it's TCC signal that's the big deal; later ones are PWM and if you use early code it'll fry the TCC or something.

Also changes to the 3-2 downshift solenoid as well. Also have to get the right input shaft, pump and converter. I have not seen a removeable bellhousing for a 60*V6.

[Fast355]

Also I have limited gear options being that the front diff is an isuzu 10 bolt I can go from my current 4.10s to 4.30s, maybe track down some 4.56s from an older trooper, the nearly impossiable to find 4.77s or the long out of production and prone to failure 5.38s, also the 2 best options would mean I couldnt go above 40 mphwith out the engine screaming. I wish I could regear to correct for tires and may but at the moment just want a trans I dont have to be always worried about. Sorry too rant lol just I have thought this through a bit. By the way you guys are geniuses, idk how you guys know all the ins and out of these ecms lol

No problem man.....I went to an 80E in my application where the 60E and 65E spec replacement were not adequate for my abuse. I can totally relate. My 2006 Ram Hemi truck went through 6 transmissions in 70K too. If I had kept it, I would have swapped in an AMG spec NAG1.

[Six_Shooter]

The 2.2 in the later S-series appears to have a removable bellhousing, and has the same small corporate bell housing that the 60* V6 uses.

[Fast355]

The 2.2 in the later S-series appears to have a removable bellhousing, and has the same small corporate bell housing that the 60* V6 uses.

Nice! Keep in mind the FWD corporate bellhousing transmissions use a smaller input shaft with fewer splines so not just every transmission will work. If the colorado shares the same converter and input shaft as the 4.2 trailblazer it will not work with the 2.2 bellhousing.

[Rodeo]

Nice! Keep in mind the FWD corporate bellhousing transmissions use a smaller input shaft with fewer splines so not just every transmission will work. If the colorado shares the same converter and input shaft as the 4.2 trailblazer it will not work with the 2.2 bellhousing.

Because the convertor wint fit in the housing or? Hadnet hearded this so just wondering so I can look out for it. Thanks

[Rodeo]

http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv113/gar70614/20140323_153635.jpg

http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv113/gar70614/20140323_153651.jpg

[Fast355]

Because the convertor wint fit in the housing or? Hadnet hearded this so just wondering so I can look out for it. Thanks

The newer LS style engines have a longer, larger diameter input shaft and the V8 converters are much larger in diameter. My old 2.8 had like a 9.5" converter and my 350 was atleast 12". The newer stuff is atleast 11". If the colorado and trailblazer share converters it likely will not even fit in the 2.2 bellhousing.

[Fast355]

http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv113/gar70614/20140323_153651.jpg

Looks like an 0411 style PCM.

[buddrow]

i think it's TCC signal that's the big deal; later ones are PWM and if you use early code it'll fry the TCC or something.
93-94 were non-pwm TCC apply whereas the 95 and up are all pwm. I usually eliminate the pwm function and revert back to a simple on-off TCC. The pwm TCC was instituted for a few reasons such as converter lock-up feel especially with different tcc clutch lining materials used for different vehicles with different holding capacity. Depending on the application you can eliminate the pwm function without worry of anything more than a firmer tcc lockup.

[buddrow]

Also changes to the 3-2 downshift solenoid as well. Also have to get the right input shaft, pump and converter. I have not seen a removeable bellhousing for a 60*V6.

Pretty much all 4L60E's from '99-up have removable bellhousing. The 97ish-up 3.4 f-body trans should work. Will have correct bell, converter, etc. It will have to be a package deal as the input shaft and converter must match the 60*v6.

[buddrow]

there's a guy on this forum working on a very affordable standalone controller, but i think it might be a ways off of being ready?

Ya, I'm still working on the controller. Need to line out a few more items before its ready for the road and time is not my friend at the moment. Still waiting on Steveo to send me the updated code for review. Anywho, here's the thread on my controller project if you're interested or just curious.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?2931-Stand-alone-tranmission-controller

Buddrow

[Rodeo]

Pretty much all 4L60E's from '99-up have removable bellhousing. The 97ish-up 3.4 f-body trans should work. Will have correct bell, converter, etc. It will have to be a package deal as the input shaft and converter must match the 60*v6.

So the 60° its own style input shaft?




Also can I swap the 60e sruff into my stock ecm or is that not doable?

[RobertISaar]

Pretty much all 4L60E's from '99-up have removable bellhousing. The 97ish-up 3.4 f-body trans should work. Will have correct bell, converter, etc. It will have to be a package deal as the input shaft and converter must match the 60*v6.

you mean the 3800 F-bodies?

[buddrow]

you mean the 3800 F-bodies?

Ya, I forget they went to 3800. Friend has a '95 Bird 3.4, that's what i was thinking about but it's a one piece bell.

[buddrow]

So the 60° its own style input shaft?




Also can I swap the 60e sruff into my stock ecm or is that not doable?

Yes the 60* v6 input shaft and converter, is all its own, similar to the 2.2L 4 cyl stuff.

As for the 60E stuff into your pcm, its doubful it will be easy to accomplish. As mentioned earlier, I am working on a controller for the 60E as well as the 80E. It is in development currently with no determined time to market. May be 2 weeks, may be 2 months. If you can stand the wait, hang out and follow my thread and we will get you going with the 60E. Bear in mind that the 60E is marginal as an off-road trans without some internal upgrades.

if you are in a hurry you might check out the Megashift controller from the guys at Megasquirt.
Buddrow

[Six_Shooter]

You might also be able to find an ECM that will controll the 60E and the engine and swap that in place of your current ECM.

[Rodeo]

awesome, I can wait a couple months, I know the 60e isnt the best option but the 30s worse lol the 60 atleast has the aftermarket support. Looks like ill be looking into making the colo 60 into 60° bell housing a little further. Ill prob be getting a 2.2 trans not just housing so may just swap the input shaft over, not simple but very doable

[buddrow]

If you get the 2.2L trans you shouldn't have to swap input shafts. The I6/L5 trailblazer/colorado bellhousings and converters are specific to those engines so I would look for either the 2.2 or V6 bell/converter setup. The trans is going to have to be gone through to change the output shaft for a 4wd unless you find a 2.2L 4wd S-10 trans. And you will have to procure the t-case adapter from the colorado trans if you're wanting to use the isuzu tcase. You might also look at Isuzu Hombre trucks for trans. may have just the setup you're looking for.

Buddrow

[Rodeo]

The hombre is the sameas a s10, just diffrent grill. I want to use the colorado trans because it has a diffrent valve body and pan that create clearance for the front drive shaft, if I swap tail shafts and use the s10 trans the front shaft will hit the pan. I esentially need to use the colorado trans with the 60° inpur shaft, bell housing and tourque converter. I needed to get both trannys ayway so its just a little more work than expected to adapt it

[buddrow]

You won't need the Colo valvebidy just the pan and filter. The bell is gonna have to be from a 60* v6 or 4cylinder. The I5 and L6 engines are different than the v6. The L6 has the starter hump in a different location and I assume the I5 does as well not to mention the bolt pattern to block is different.

Buddrow

[Rodeo]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/jeep-hardcore-tech/1079139-4l60e-colorado-tranny-pan-conversion.htmlQUOTE=buddrow;38382]You won't



need the Colo valvebidy just the pan and filter. The bell is gonna have to be from a 60* v6 or 4cylinder. The I5 and L6 engines are different than the v6. The L6 has the starter hump in a different location and I assume the I5 does as well not to mention the bolt pattern to block is different.

Buddrow[/QUOTE]
This thread shows how the valve body is diffrent.

[lionelhutz]

You might also be able to find an ECM that will controll the 60E and the engine and swap that in place of your current ECM.

That's what I was hinting at doing. Get the wiring diagrams and figure out what PCM can be used as a swap so the PCM will control both.

[Rodeo]

I think im going to either wat for the member on here to coneoit with a standalone or try to use the pcm mentioned. Efore with the necessary inputs.