help vortec 350 tbi programming

[tamperedchevy]

I have an 89 chevy 1500 350 gmail goodwrench engine
With these upgrades:
-vortec heads 185cc runners 2.02 valves
-Comp cams nostalgia 211/218exh. Duration@.50
420/426int lift
-Trick flow chromoly 7.75" pushrods
-Scorpion narrow body 1.5 full roller rockers
-Longtube headers to 2.5 duals,x-over, no cats
-Extreme EFI 50mm TBI
-Dual plane high rise air gap intake(summit)
-New stock injectors with 18psi
-3 wire o2 sensor
-No egr
-Custom starter chip

I have moates stand alone software to burn, tunerpro to adjust and winaldl to log. Burn2 unit and g2 adapter to use the better chips.

My idle BLM is 80. From 90 to115 while driving. And I have a bad hesitation after it warms up but only from a low rpm or stopped throttle smash. 21" vacuum but the cam is only .20 over stock(does this sound good?) no vacuum leaks unless it's in the brake booster.

I lowered my BPW by 30 and in Egr. From.71 to. 52 off someone's recommendation. It didn't do much of anything is there somewhere else to adjust this. Where should I go from here?

Timing is at 4* advanced with that spark wire unplugged
I've read lots online on this but after weeks learning and days logging and programming I figure I need to figure this out. So here I am

[EagleMark]

Sounds like you have a good start on equipment! :thumbsup:

What ECM/PCM? Mask ID?

No reason to run ancient WinALDL when you already have TunerPro RT, it will do a more detailed data log.

Not sure who told you to change BPW in EGR? You don't even have EGR? Make sure you have disabled the EGR properly in the bin because there is no data in $42 to tell if it's on or off... but still changes fuel and spark when it thinks it's on.

First thing I'd do is search the site for the Vortec Head timing tables Dave W did for us in a spreadsheet and get it in your bin. With that and maybe a few more degrees at idle area, you don't need the extra 4* at distributor.

Here's a greaqt writeup on how to adjust your fueling from BLM data.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1024-1227747-42-VE1-VE2-Fuel-Tables

21" of vacuum is great at idle! The hesitation is due to the Vortec headsw as well, will get better with proper advance but still needs sometimes 200% more AE to get rid of the hesitation when accelerating.

That should get you going... :rockon:

[tamperedchevy]

7747 $42
So is the're only one place adjust bpw? It was 135 I dropped.it down to 108 using the spreadsheet calc. Dave w.
And I have the spreadsheet for blm ve table corrections. Is it time for that. I don't like my idle having 80 for blm. Thought I should. Fix this b4 I move to ve corrections.

[tamperedchevy]

Good thread link. I forgot about that one. I've read so Many.
Ok. This is my game plan
I'll add my ve2 to ve1 put them 30-95 then go for a long log tomorrow and adjust my blm with the VE corrections spreadsheet add them in smooth out my table and go for another long log. Sound good? It's on unless it doesn't sound good

[EagleMark]

Yes there is only one setting for the BPW/BPC in $42. It's calcualted by fuel pressure and injectro size.

There's a lot of controversy on it's use in tuning and can be fudged a bit. But it is a set it and forget it calibration number that goes into the bin and is now part of the fueling calculation.

A lower number does come out to be leaner.

Here's a recent quote:

Everything you've read and stated is true. But you can set up a stock 5.7L to run 22 PSI with these calculations and it will run just the same, no added fuel? When BPW/BPC number gets lower it will fire Sync fueling to higher RPM without going static/100% IDC. Like BPW of 135 goes static at about 3600 RPM.., this is why Cop Cars had bigger injectors and lower BPW... but with a WB on it's still getting enough fuel to keep AFR to 5000 RPM because it goes Async fueling and the calculation changes.

Want my secret information for tuning with higher pressure after I learned and figured out all this stuff? Just raise pressure, leave settings alone and you will have more fuel available and tune VE! :thumbsup:

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?2559-Increasing-TBI-fuel-pressure

[Fast355]

Yes there is only one setting for the BPW/BPC in $42. It's calcualted by fuel pressure and injectro size.

There's a lot of controversy on it's use in tuning and can be fudged a bit. But it is a set it and forget it calibration number that goes into the bin and is now part of the fueling calculation.

A lower number does come out to be leaner.

Here's a recent quote:


http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?2559-Increasing-TBI-fuel-pressure


Actually if you are using EGR there is a whole table for BPC in $42.

That being said I would set the ignition timing at the distributor to 10* BTDC and set the initial constant in the .bin to 10* BTDC. This will help a cammed/vortec head engine start easier and run better if it ever goes into limp home mode.

[tamperedchevy]

Alright, got my blm around 110-130, got some fine tuning still but was wondering, when should I do AE? And what do I move to next? Spark tables? Maybe can I get a list of things to do in order. That could help other noobs like myself. Like when to do AE, PE or when to do spark tables and I guess hiway lean cruise would be last?

And I'll throw a log and some blm data up here in a couple days so I can get a few more eyes on it for approval to make me feel better lol

[tamperedchevy]

Haven't got around to a log yet but my blm are around 117 for the neutral idle 135 for gear idle and between 122-130 for all other driving. I'd say that's nice.

[EagleMark]

It is and no reason to go nuts trying to get numbers absolute! They will just change with weather, temp, humidity etc... The magic of EFI working it's wonders...

You can dial it in further if you want but won't notice a difference. It's well within the ballpark, actually infield! When fueling is that close the only thing I like to do is visually check VE fueling table for smoothness. Then a final data log in case the smoothing was out of line somewhere?

Smoothing does not have to end up perfect. But it should not have any big dips, spikes etc... remember the number in the cell is interpolated with all surrounding numbers to come up with what ECM finally uses. These old ECM are slow enough that I don't want it to have to work real hard at math.

Have you seen this?
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1024-1227747-42-VE1-VE2-Fuel-Tables

[tamperedchevy]

They looked good yesterday but I gave em one last adjustment now they look great! And yes I did see that post and added them together. Lows are 30's high is 92 on the VE.

[tamperedchevy]

Looking at the two AE tables on this thread at the second post, Dave has two tables up. His AE-tps table his goes to 50 percent tps mine only goe to 25 percent. If I used his tables as a starting point do I use his numbers up to the 25 percent tps-usec?

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?2873-bog-off-the-line&highlight=tables+vortec

[tamperedchevy]

Is there any good AE threads out there?

[tamperedchevy]

i used the map and tps AE tables dave w posted in the second here http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...=tables+vortec (http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...=tables+vortec) and it made my hesitation better. right after i did althought it ran better it died once when i put it in gear.

[tamperedchevy]

going back to VE tables. i had big ve spikes to keep my idle in the right spot. and with a huge upward spike and a huge lower spike and it was still rick in neutral and lean in gear. so i redid the tables. man are they annoying. if i do a run and correct the table it just turns into a spike pit. maybe it was a bad day to drive. I want a carburator. could my spark tables be messing with me. Im not sure whrn i should tune this

accidently deleted log so ill make another tomorrow
can anyone see if this bins spark looks weird.

[EagleMark]

Your spark advance table does not look weird. But IMO that's way to much spark for your engine in a truck and if you add up spark, PE and adders you've got about 40* at WOT? But not enough spark advance at idle and the area you flattened probably does not match where your idling with that cam. Need to see a data log to check this and other things.

In your first post you had a Custom Starter Chip, shouldn't they be helping you?

Need at least another 100 RPM for idle for now.

Also said no EGR? The EGR patch is not done and I don't think it's off the way you set it up?.

There's a mistake in your MAP AE.

Also several Parameters for an engine build like this need some adjustment and I'm not sure why you changed some things?

Let's see a data log to see how your really doing! :rockon:

[tamperedchevy]

hahaha tbi chips.com. i thought i could just use his chip as a starter chip and adjust from there i was hoping just his fueling was off. almost seems better off just throwing that one away.
I seen two spots to shut egr off in tunerpro definitions so i set both of them the way it said to disable it.

Ill get a log on here tomorrow for sure.

[BLG355]

hahaha tbi chips.com. i thought i could just use his chip as a starter chip and adjust from there i was hoping just his fueling was off. almost seems better off just throwing that one away.
I seen two spots to shut egr off in tunerpro definitions so i set both of them the way it said to disable it.

Ill get a log on here tomorrow for sure.

I have been there! :mad1:

[EagleMark]

hahaha tbi chips.com.


I have been there! :mad1:

Unfortunately we see a lot of you guys here! Wish we could see you first rather then last...

[tamperedchevy]

well everybody would rather pay 270 than 550. but then just pay over 550 trying to figure out your. Tbichips chip is junk.

i Messed up a few things on that chip the other night when i was half asleep. i changed something wrong besides the map AE and my idle started jumping around like crazy. so i used my VE tables made up and took the spark from his chip because it works better than the stock setup.

heres the bin(ARJT adjusted) and some logs:

[EagleMark]

I only charge half that to tune and have done a lot of re-tunes to tbichips.com... it's be a lot easier on me if they came here first and I did not have to deal with pissed off skeptical people from the start. :rolleye:

[EagleMark]

Did you save the data log from TunerPro in .xdl format so we can use it in TunerPro RT? I don't do WinALDL logs, just does not show me what I need, well it's half of what you need in a much harder to figure out format.

[tamperedchevy]

Did I seem pissed off?


Tunerpro datalogs?

[EagleMark]

Did I seem pissed off?No. That was a general statement and was not referring to you... But some get really mad when I re-tune them and they run right...

Yeah TunerPro RT logs. Are you still using WinALDL? Get TunerPro RT from:
http://www.tunerpro.net/downloadApp.htm
It's free to use and you should donate the suggested $39. so he keeps interest in making updates. This software does the tuning and Data logging and so many things together. Even burn your chip to Moates Burn 2, or Emulate with Auoprom and Ostrich, does other Ford and Nissian stuff too! Just like the $800+ OBDII tuning software.

Then get the ADX file to datalog your ECM, you need $42-1227747-V5.2.adx here:http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?304-1227747-ECM-Information-42

Have you read the tutorial?
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?466-TunerPro-starter-Tutorial!-New-users-this-is-a-must-read!-)

Cable installation:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1557-Cable-Installation-to-TunerPro-RT

[dave w]

Tunerpro datalogs?

Attached is a TunerPro RT data log from a '7747 ECM. TunerPro RT ... The BEST DATA LOGGING SOFTWARE ON PLANET EARTH!:thumbsup: http://tunerpro.net/downloadApp.htm

I counted ... only 15 mouse clicks to get TunerPro RT functional.:wtg:

dave w

[EagleMark]

Looked at your antique data logs. When doing logs for adjusting the Fueling VE tables you want an engine warmed up. Your log only got to 170*f IIRC. At your warmest point your pretty rich all over.

Also knock counts just keep going? Do you have the knock sensor and ESC wired in? Hope that's not all knock...

[tamperedchevy]

i dont want to pay someone to do this. I want to learn it myself so i can change later with more/less mods engine swap or whatever i do.
it seems so hard to get answers...like pulling teeth. I've read everything i can find. FSC, gearhead, third gen, diyefi,and many other places.


is there any good AE tuning,Ive really only found one good thread to help with this.
my understanding is (Example) if i double both AE tables(tps and Map) I should cut AE-CTS in half.
Is there more to this or do i just keep playing with these three tables?

Also is there an order to do things. heres how i assume it should be done in list form
sart with
BPW-
VE tables-added them together for tuning then split them back up when close
Spark- added warm bias in to tune then tookit back out no knocks as of now
AE?- this one seems to be the hardest so far not sure what to do here
PE-can i lower this delay to essentially replace AE? like bring rpm threshold down?
dont know what comes next.

Also while playing with AE i ended up with a rough idle.smooth when really cold smooth when hot(above 170) and rough when its almost warm? any ideas


I am on the laptop everyday(literally) everyday constantly searching forums and burning chips doing many calculations using the most of my knowledge and how things work to get this done. doing this in the morning before work, during my breaks, after work to before i go to bed for over two months. and I am NOT exaggerating. It makes me want to sell my truck (that has been my dream truck since i was a little kid) or get a carburator, or other unspeakable things. I really want to keep the tbi system because its the stock system and i feel better fuel mileage can be acheived with it.

[Buzz]

Getting upset won't help you. If you have endless time for this project, you will probably figure it out. If you require it to be completed sooner rather than later, retaining the services of a professional tuner becomes a reasonable option.

I went from carbs to flash memory systems (OBD2) - never bothered with chip systems - so I am not trying to sell you anything, merely offering a voice of reason.

Learning how to tune takes a great deal of time and effort. Learning how to tune well, takes even more of both. I own just about every book ever published, with respect to OBD2 systems and tuning, and have invested thousands of hours in developing competency.

You don't become a decent tuner overnight. Some never get that far.

[EagleMark]

i dont want to pay someone to do this. I want to learn it myself so i can change later with more/less mods engine swap or whatever i do.
it seems so hard to get answers...like pulling teeth. I gave you answers! Get your data logs in TunerPro RT, Also told you how to data log properly with warmed up engine, questioned all your knock counts and that is where we left off... never heard anything back? So what's this pulling teeth crap about?

Maybe one question at a time and we can go over them to learn? You don't think your going to master this overnight do you? Each area you tune is a process. Your order of things seems correct. I don't know where to send you on AE? Do you have an AE problem? The correct way to tune AE is with a Wide Band O2 sensor... but driving it and noticing feedback from the butt dyno works and what most guys do.

Not sure where you got cutting AE CTS in half from? That's not something I normally touch.

AE should not have any effect on idle. If your fueling is off far enough to cause AE at idle? Well it's a Fuel VE issue, not AE.

There's usually 2 AE settings in each mask/definition.
1. AE TPS which is more fuel to compensate for throttle blades opening. This is a very short amount of AE.
2. AE MAP This is a longer amount of extra fuel to finish the transition.

AE and PE are two differant things. If your tune is pig rich then you won't notice AE being short because of all the extra fuel.

Not sure why you added Warm Spark Bias to spark advance? Maybe you need some more learning of what the bias does. In the masks that have a lot of work done to them, the bias is already compensated in Spark Advance table. Meaning what you see is actual Spark Advance. Others that have not had this feature included shows a spark advance off by the amount of bias.


I've read everything i can find. FSC, gearhead, third gen, diyefi,and many other places.

I am on the laptop everyday(literally) everyday constantly searching forums and burning chips doing many calculations using the most of my knowledge and how things work to get this done. doing this in the morning before work, during my breaks, after work to before i go to bed for over two months. and I am NOT exaggerating. It makes me want to sell my truck (that has been my dream truck since i was a little kid) or get a carburator, or other unspeakable things. I really want to keep the tbi system because its the stock system and i feel better fuel mileage can be acheived with it.Well your doing what we have all done, then apply what we learn, test and see how it does, rinse and repeat all you think you have learned a few hundred times... moving one thing may effect another and you don't catch it right away, so now you've made several changes and have no idea what you did wrong? Back to your stock bin and start over.

The learning process never ends! After a few hundred tunes and years of studying and applying you think you know it all? Nope, you never stop learning!

When I have nothing to do I still want to learn and practice what I know. So I'll through a stock bin in a vehicle and tune it while I drive that day. Then compare it to the last one that data shows it as perfect and I have no complaints of anything and see how close I was...

[dave w]

I use data ... for tuning. I thing the more you know about what the engine is doing (data), the better the tune. To me data is a tool. I'm 100% on board with TunerPro RT, which provides excellent data. The attached screen shots show how I use the TunerPro RT data log, and exported log file to tune AE. In my thinking, the only accurate way to adjust AE is with a Wide Band O2 sensor (WBO2). The screen shots show when AE is active, and the WBO2 reading. Hands Down ... Flat Out its the best way to Tune AE!:thumbsup:

dave w

[tamperedchevy]

I'm upset??

[tamperedchevy]

ive burned a couple tanks of gas and burned over 50 or alot more chips in the last week, and started over with stock ones many times,ARJT or AFCB starters. and read many things over and over and some new things ive found. something is going on in closed loop. opem loop was always great feeling and looks better on the o2 sensor. i can even mash the pedal and waste the tires in open loop. when it hits closed loop all goes to hell and o2 jumps up to .8 areas. my cams not that big but im thinking open loop tune? and shut down closed loop maybe, maybe not guess ill just test that

oh yeah learned not to mess with ae-cts

[dave w]

I'm upset??

I'm not here to upset people. I like to help.

Maybe we need to get together with network meeting? Free software, like Teamviewer http://www.teamviewer.com/en/index.aspx, is one option I can think of to help with your tuning?

We can talk on the phone, and we can work on the computer at the same time.

dave w

[EagleMark]

My favorite starter chip is ASDU and in it is a hint as to why it is better in CL then the other bins.

Or you could post your bin again and I'll take a peak as to why your having CL issues?

Do you have headers? Where is O2 sensor mounted?

[tamperedchevy]

Ha I just made an Asdu starter yesterday. It's weird as soon as I put it in gear it drops out of closed loop.

Yes headers. W/ heated o2 sensor in collector

[EagleMark]

You have a data log from TunerPro RT yet? Post it up.

Haven't seen a recent bin? If I could see what your doing I could give you some pointers.

[Fast355]

My favorite starter chip is ASDU and in it is a hint as to why it is better in CL then the other bins.

Or you could post your bin again and I'll take a peak as to why your having CL issues?

Do you have headers? Where is O2 sensor mounted?

I did not like ASDU when I ran it.....I had better luck with ARHT or ARJT from a fullsize G-Van and even better luck with the 299 ECM and AWLD. The newer 93+ TBI stuff was even better. I also had very good luck with a 92 Astro 4.3 HO bin with a cylinder select change and BPW recalculation....ASYNC only

[tamperedchevy]

You have a data log from TunerPro RT yet? Post it up.



Haven't seen a recent bin? If I could see what your doing I could give you some pointers.

Well I don't really have anything right now don't know which bin to restart with, messed up the others plugging in different combos of AE yesterday, way below stock=pig rich, way way way above stock=pig rich, so that's when I went to asdu. Haven't got anywhere else with that yet. I also lost my CEL, shows codes when attached to laptop, but not on dash(even with stock bin)

Also I've had my blm almost dead on 128 before, neutral idle is always 108, even with all blms running lean around 130-140,

[EagleMark]

Light on the dash has got to work so you know your chip or emulator is working. With key on it should come on, blink and stay on till engine is started then go off.

[tamperedchevy]

yeah it stopped doing that bout three four days ago

[tamperedchevy]

just fto rt log working. injector duty cycle idle is at 180 percent?!

[EagleMark]

Injector Duty Cycle will only work if you have applied the BPW Patch to your bin before the data log...

[EagleMark]

Your data log has a Error 51 Prom. So got to fix that before data is any good, you may be in Limp Home Mode...

[tamperedchevy]

CEL light was burnt out with three other lights in the instrument panel.

about the injector duty cycle....Gotcha thanks

and on the 51 prom error, is that because i started it without a chip right before that log(that measely log was with a chip tho)just to see if if would. probally stupid but curiosity got the best of me.

[tamperedchevy]

will put an actual log on here tomorrow after work wanted to get that check light going again it was buggin me.

[EagleMark]

and on the 51 prom error, is that because i started it without a chip right before that log.That would set an error 51.

But stored errors can effect logs. After your running and connected just look at Item List and go to Error Codes and make sure all is well. If not clear codes.

[tamperedchevy]

wow winaldl showed very little knocks. like ! in a few cells

[EagleMark]

Wow! TunerPro showed Knock Counts like the Energizer Bunny! They just kept going and going! Not sure what you were doing in the log at 5 MPH for a long time at 2400 RPM, but knock counts never stopped at that point!

When I get back I'll give a better look over of the log.

[tamperedchevy]

Speedo is way off. Like 70mph shows as 9 or 10mph. 55 mph shows as 5mph.

Edit- Looks like the knocks didn't go crazy until after I left gas station. Something must have wiggled out. The drive to the gas station was fine, but not after, and the truck stayed idling while I was there.

[EagleMark]

or some really bad gas?

[tamperedchevy]

Only got breakfast there, no gas

[brian617]

Only got breakfast there, no gas

They're somewhat related :laugh:

[tamperedchevy]

In tunerpro RT, theres 9 tables for knock, which one do i use? running sample count?
and theres 9 tables for BLM history. use running average?

Also i use 93 octane, and i thought my spark advance was semi conservative.

[tamperedchevy]

Time: 6:30-6:50pm central time
Temperature: 75 fehrenheit
Humidity:40 percent
a darn good time to log i recon.:jfj:(i dont know what this green guys doin but i like it...)

Heres a much better log than this morning.
edit---And because of the knock i went back to ARJT from ASDU(didnt help)and the knocks showed up in that area before and i lowered the spark and it went away. i think the warmer day and the actually being warmed up all the way brought it back. so i lowered it a little more for this log. It may even be somehting rattling at that rpm vibration? maybe not

[EagleMark]

Only got breakfast there, no gasSo you had no gas after breakfast? That's good right? :laugh:

You were plenty warmed up and knock counts shouldn't have started... (well maybe if you left idling and got hot) but should not have continued. I'm curious now and have to look at that part of log and see what happened.

[EagleMark]

In tunerpro RT, theres 9 tables for knock, which one do i use? running sample count?
and theres 9 tables for BLM history. use running average?

Also i use 93 octane, and i thought my spark advance was semi conservative.This ECM is hard to use knock counts as a tool. Use Most recent Sample and when you see a knock count increase, the actual number means nothing, when it is increasing does mean something/knock counts! Pause the data log and use key controls to go 1 frame forward at a time. Shift + [ for one step back and Shift + ] for one step forward. Your's was pretty obvious as it just kept going!

If you use the method I described along with Data Tracing and the SPark Advance table open you will see the exact area that is causing the knock counts. It usually takes 3-4 degrees less in that area to safely remove knock counts. There is a borderline where to much spark advance is not helping power, but also not causing knock counts. It does cause heat in piston and stress on wrist pin and rod bearing along with oil temperature rise!

[EagleMark]

Time: 6:30-6:50pm central time
Temperature: 75 fehrenheit
Humidity:40 percent
a darn good time to log i recon.:jfj:(i dont know what this green guys doin but i like it...)

Heres a much better log than this morning.
edit---And because of the knock i went back to ARJT from ASDU(didnt help)and the knocks showed up in that area before and i lowered the spark and it went away. i think the warmer day and the actually being warmed up all the way brought it back. so i lowered it a little more for this log. It may even be somehting rattling at that rpm vibration? maybe notYes intake air temp increase will cause knock if that close to the border. Do you have a cold air intake? Open element air filters are not your freind!

I do love that little green guy too! He makes me happy! :jfj:

[tamperedchevy]

nope no gas after breakfast


They're somewhat related :laugh:
ha fuel that turns into gas......related indeed:laugh: (had to get in on this on the ground laughter)

P.s. thanks mark and dave for making me get RT thats amazing I like the monitors area ahahaha GREAT Stuff, albeit a little confusing at first. you can really see some stuff. much better than visualizing winaldl text. definitely going to donate the 39 doll hairs its well worth it, plus itll get rid of that 10 second delay. i's just a little skeptical at first

[tamperedchevy]

I think I'm only advanced around 26-30 degrees with that 2400 cruising rpm knock, that couldn't be to high, could it

[tamperedchevy]

Of the MAP AE and TPS AE which one fuels the initial pedal smash and which one carries through as you keep it floored?

[EagleMark]

I'm still not up to helping much past AE !!

TPS AE is a short blast while throttle blades open.

MAP AE is the longer AE to finish the transition...

[tamperedchevy]

Just wanted to see you write that again because I saw on another thread the other way around. Wasn't sure if you "typoed" but thanks for the reply

Edit- what do you mean not helping much past AE

[dave w]

Just wanted to see you write that again because I saw on another thread the other way around. Wasn't sure if you "typoed" but thanks for the reply

Edit- what do you mean not helping much past AE

I think Mark is still recuperating from his recent surgery.

dave

[EagleMark]

Edit- what do you mean not helping much past AEBrain is still not ready to help much past AE.


Just wanted to see you write that again because I saw on another thread the other way around. Wasn't sure if you "typoed" but thanks for the reply
So did I leave a typo somewhere that needs to be fixed?

Differant masks may have differant ways of commanding AE, there may be more, less, same?

But
AE TPS = short.
MAP TPS = Long. is correct.

[tamperedchevy]

No you did not make a typo, that was just a verification question.

[tamperedchevy]

another question for anyone. would i be abe to get a screenshot or numbers to make this graph i attached, i would like to see some curves to compare mine to. ah yes, and one of the map-AE would be great. Im wondering if curves shoot up more toward the end or a steady climb would works best.

I'm wanting to get this AE just slightly close so i can have fun still while headed toward getting that wideband(which is a ways down the road) as ive also traded my choppy for a 69 manx beach buggy project and im juggling between the two since the truck is almost complete, besides the painting a this tune.

and also from what im experiences the MAP-AE that carries the extra fuel through should be less than the TPS-AE, am i correct in this?

and mark, sounds like it was a crazy surgery, hope it brushes off not so bad.:thumbsup:

edit/ posted the wrong pic first, dont know how to delete that one, but the example one is the AE one that is my current one

[brian617]

I experimented with changing the curve and didn't really notice much difference, but maybe the rest of my tune wasn't close enough yet. I did have a fuel pressure fluctuation problem that is now resolved. Currently i'm using the stock curve with actually 20% less across the curve TPS AE. Once I got more than enough fuel the stock numbers were surprisingly too much. Without the wide band it might be tough to see if the hesitation is rich or lean.

[tamperedchevy]

thanks alot brian, I was wondering if anyone had to go below the stock AE, and yes it is hard to tell if its a rich or lean hesitation.

scenario- sitting at stop sign, i mash the peddal it hesitates, I keep it mashed and it continues til it dies. then its hard to start, because its flooded(thats what it feels like)

I've been starting with the stock AE and moving up from there. I'm gonna start with less than stock and see where it takes me.

Also, another question for someone. i unplug the battery every time i change the chip, do i have to wait for it to learn before I see my changes from my prom?I know the VE tables show the changes right away. what about the AE, are those changes immediate?

[brian617]

Make 10% or 20% changes at a time, learned that the hard way lol. Had mine so pig rich on AE TPS that it would stall and hard start like your describing too.

[tamperedchevy]

dang now my o2 sensors going out. well guess ill just get a wideband o2. is there one that i can put in in place of mine? that my ecm will read?

[tamperedchevy]

I also think it may be a spark problem on that hesitation, i changed it before the o2 sensor went downhill and it helped alot. my low rpm WOT spark was to high i believe and my idle spark to low, but itll have to wait til the wideband comes in. does that SLC DIY 7 sound good? it says it has narrowband simulator for the ecm

[Hog]

Which Vortec heads are you using that have 185cc intake ports? CPP Vortec Bowtie Smallports? I hear these heads work well in the largeport 225cc runner volume, not much info about teh small port 185cc units.

peace
Hog

[BLG355]

Which Vortec heads are you using that have 185cc intake ports? CPP Vortec Bowtie Smallports? I hear these heads work well in the largeport 225cc runner volume, not much info about teh small port 185cc units.

peace
Hog

I used the large port ones on a race motor, based on ET and mph, the engine made about 542hp. not bad for a 350.

[Fast355]

Which Vortec heads are you using that have 185cc intake ports? CPP Vortec Bowtie Smallports? I hear these heads work well in the largeport 225cc runner volume, not much info about teh small port 185cc units.

peace
Hog

I looked at many different options and after lots of searches and builds that had been dyno'd, I chose the Edebrock ETec170s. Slapped them on untouched out of the box, onto my 350 with a .028" compressed head gasket. The factory L31 pistons were about .020" in the hole. I know I sacrificed a little quench for a better seal with the thicker multi layer gasket. I could not be happier with the way it is running, other than my 17 year old, 85K mile GM fuel pump is currently maxed at 5,000 rpm.

[tamperedchevy]

finally got a wideband 02 sensor. its the innovate mtx-l. seemed great, got rid of the hesitation in just a few runs and it was a beast. but now everything is acting weird.
just to check,.. I hooked it to the lambda analog wire for it to signal the computer. my7747 comp does use lambda correct? the other analog wire it came with is 0volts=7.35 afr and 5v=22.39 and of course the lambda analog is 1.1=14afr and .1v=15afr. thats what the book that came with it said so i hooked it to the lambda one, as it seemed to run what looked right to me on the laptops sensor projections. Is this correct using the lambda analog wire?

[EagleMark]

Haven't seen anyone get the simulated signal (Lambda) work right, seems to throw everything off. Better off tuning Open Loop off the WB or my favorite on a mild motor is still run the NB too!

[Fast355]

Haven't seen anyone get the simulated signal (Lambda) work right, seems to throw everything off. Better off tuning Open Loop off the WB or my favorite on a mild motor is still run the NB too!

I ALWAYS used simulated narrow band on my OBD1 stuff. From the time I had a wideband, I ditched the narrowband and put the wideband in its place.

[EagleMark]

Well I can get my LC-1 programmmed to work for awile but soon it throws an error code... can't get cross counts out of it.

So what WB you have that works and what did you do to program it?

[Fast355]

Well I can get my LC-1 programmmed to work for awile but soon it throws an error code... can't get cross counts out of it.

So what WB you have that works and what did you do to program it?

PLX out of the box and all I did was change the proportional gains and durations to help compensate for the quicker o2 readings. Also you can adjust the target 02 voltage to match where you want your air/fuel ratio to fall. I had controlled amd maintained closed loop afr values from 14:1 at idle, 16:1 at light throttle to 13:1 at heavy part throttle, in closed loop.

[tamperedchevy]

Haven't seen anyone get the simulated signal (Lambda) work right, seems to throw everything off. Better off tuning Open Loop off the WB or my favorite on a mild motor is still run the NB too!

My mtx-l seems to work great with the simulated signal. for many days at least.

but now a new problem has risen. I had lots of tire ripping power for days after wideband ae adjustment. Then all of a sudden if it gets hot past 200 degrees it starts surging and running lean with bursts of richness(surging) changed injectors and a new tbi kit new fuel pump and filter again.(only tbi kit and filter had to be bought)

heres two tunerpro logs to show. it didnt do it until the end on the "to oreilly log".

[tamperedchevy]

made an open loop tune. runs great, going to tune on that for a while. so its definetely a closed loop thing. might be the o2 sensor simulator confusing things. I'll have the shop throw my new o2 bung in there and get a new heated o2 sensor, then I'll know for sure if the wideband is messing with it.

I just have been watching the wideband and adjusting fuel to that. got it around 14.7:1 - 15.3:1 while driving, still sdjusting idle fuel, changed PE and highway lean to kik in when i want. all seems to get me around with power and the fuel ratios i want. at least til i get the new heated o2 bung in.

[dave w]

I've been thinking, fuel with 10% Ethanol has a Stoichiometric AFR of about 14.2 : 1.

dave w

[tamperedchevy]

can someone point me towards a good wideband tuning AE post or thread?
i got my bungs in now for both narrow and wideband, tuned to the wideband and the thing rips tires, but then a few minutes later it will seem lean again on pedal smash.then back to ripping tires and then back to lean again. blms are great and getting good gas mileage(for what it is) and it drives great, but i do not like smashing the pedal from a stop and having a 50 percent chance of it peeling out or sputtering out of the hole.