Performance tuning the 4L60E and 4L80E Transmission VIA PCM

[EagleMark]

Well you guys know I'm into my first 16197427 PCM but it's a manual... BUT i have a 16188051 PCM in my LT1 with 4L60E that I am starting to play with... :rolleye:

Before I waste a perfectly good, inspected and serviced with synthetic trans I thought I better get some experience before I go to far.

First thing I found out was the 1995 Cadillac LT1 with towing package RPO V4P was a drastic improvement in shifting from factory! Can you believe a Cadillac had better shift points then an Impala SS? Well it does. So I found the V4P bin file and did a lot of comparing and liked the looks of it.

Driving my 1994 RoadmaSSter, that has the towing package, but same shift points as Impala SS was much better, higher shift points more performance oriented and just felt better.

The only other thing I have done to tranny is changed was "Shift Time (sec) Vs. %TPS Vs. Shift, Normal Mode, Low Alt. and High Alt". I cut the shift time in half from approx .60 to .30 and they do seem firmer.

The only reason I touched them was there is another table "Shift Time (sec) Vs. %TPS Vs. Shift, Performance, Low Alt. and High Alt" and these are all set to "0.00 But have no idea what makes the PCM go from "Normal" to "Performance" mode. I'm guessing I will find a TPS parameter somewhere. But both tables are the same TPS readings? So maybe it's switched by a MAP reading?

So what else can be done? Lots of questions on line pressures? Better question is what should NOT be done.

[1project2many]

I don't usually increase LP substantially on an old or unknown trans. a 10% increase is usually enough to notice. I will decrease desired shift times, adjust the up and downshift speed vs tps, and change the TCC lockup. GM did a nice job of making power with the stock LT1 IMO. The trick is to make the car feel like an SS should feel.

[EagleMark]

There's so many places to change line pressure I didn't even touch them yet. Main/max line pressure is 90 would increasing this be an overall increase?

I did change shift times, a few times and ended up with 0s like in the performance shift time table. Still not sure what paremeter changes to performance mode? Was much better. Biggest and easiest change beleive it or not was the Caddilac V4P Towing package. My car has towing package but tranny paremeters are same for Caprice, 9C1, Impala SS and Roadmaster. Only the caddy got better tranny shift points. Big improvement. Only changed shift times and a few MPH settings from it. Drives nice now, stays in gears longer and actually has a feel, rather then 123 slush 4 slush all day! :laugh:

Was wet yesterday and I floored it at about 10 mph and when it shifted to 2nd the tire just lit up. Need posi!

Your right about LT1 power from factory. I did play with WOT fuel, used a WOT locker program that does something to bin and locks WOT BLM to 128. From there it was easy to add fuel to WOT and watch O2 sensor readings go up and hoover at .890 to .920 when I got 20% more in. I run 93 NO ethonal fuel and added timing 2 degrees at a time from 1400 RPM 45 MAP up. No knock till I got 6 degrees in then only mid range slight knock retard, on a cool humid rainy day. So it would probably be fine all year long but I took out the last 2 degrees.

Data maaster is way cool too! I still have not got TunerPro EE.ADX file to work so I am on trail datamaster. Used the 1/4 mile times from stock tune and got 15.8 second quater mile. Now I am at 14.3 quater mile. Big touque increase on the Datamaster Dyno too. I think I'll have to buy it! :happy:

[1project2many]

For overall changes in LP I'd use the two main LP vs speed tables. Max pressure of 90, ok, make sure nothing goes above that. Well, maybe 92 psi, just cause ya can't leave it stock. :) Then attempt to dial in gear changes by desired shift time. Watch desired times vs actual on scantool, and use the modifier tables to make spot increases in LP if the trans is having trouble achieving desired shift times. Remember, as you increase main LP, the garage shift LP may need to be reduced to keep trans from slamming into gear. This trick is good for engines with lumpy cam.

Performance shift tables are never used in a stock Impy SS. Only used in the the T/A with the installed "performance / normal" shift button. Similar button can be installed in B-body. Here's some helpful info with a copy of Scott Mueller's original button install writeup for the ImpalaSS forum.
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/ca ... 07975.html (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-forum/t-107975.html)

Datamaster software is nice. I don't mess with other stuff very often anymore. Not sure if we can buy non-ethanol fuel here. Seems strange to offer E10 only in a climate as humid as ours. All sorts of small engine problems from that combination. And I'm hearing about more rusty tanks and sending units, too. Can't wait to see what happens to the lead and tin coated fuel parts in my '36 Plymouth when I get it on the road.

[Cadride]

Looking to make some tuning changes to my tranny before I take it out for rebuild this winter. The tranny has a stock tune, stock converter, Trans-go HD2 shift kit and Corvette servos. By spring that will be a different story:jfj:. I am just starting to use TunerPro and I was comparing the attached V4P tune to mine and noticed that the tables are completely different (the numbers in the tables are very erratic), is that because I am using Advanced $0D TP5 v250.xdf for my truck and not the one for the Cadillac? For starters, do I need to copy all the tranny info from the V4P bin to mine as far as the 4L60E settings go?

[EagleMark]

I'm not sure about taking settings from one bin to another, let alone one mask to another, then there are differences in 94 to 95 trans.

To see the values in the Caddy VP4 bin you need to use the mask for that PCM which is $EE. So correct $0D won't work.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?335-16188051-and-16181333-PCM-Information-EE-EEB

There's also a lot of differant tables and changing one can effect others.

[PJG1173]

Looking to make some tuning changes to my tranny before I take it out for rebuild this winter. The tranny has a stock tune, stock converter, Trans-go HD2 shift kit and Corvette servos. By spring that will be a different story:jfj:. I am just starting to use TunerPro and I was comparing the attached V4P tune to mine and noticed that the tables are completely different (the numbers in the tables are very erratic), is that because I am using Advanced $0D TP5 v250.xdf for my truck and not the one for the Cadillac? For starters, do I need to copy all the tranny info from the V4P bin to mine as far as the 4L60E settings go?

if its built right there will no need to modify anything but the shift points. a good shift kit and valve body modification will increase line pressure. according the the transmission guy that built mine, tuning for more on top of what the kit is doing for you could cause problems. I have harsh/fast shifts in all 4 gears with no tuning except the shift points.

[Cadride]

Thanks guys for the info. I have a lot of learning to do.

Mark thanks for the mask file; definitely a lot different than the $OD mask. I have started a spread sheet listing the differences in the two masks for trans controls for curiosity purposes. I will do some playing around and let you know what I learn.

[EagleMark]

The trans cal of the Caddy V4P towing pakage is a sweet setup from factory. Really makes driving a B body more performance oriented. Would be nice in a truck, I think! But trucks are way better then a B body to begin with. So far 0 shift times have been a great improvement to a stock 4l60E trans in truck my old RoadMaster and my 98 Vortec Silverado, although this truck has had the best trans driving I have seen stock!

Since the Caddy tow package bin is a 1994, I'm not sure how it would work in a 1995? 94 to 95 4l60E are differant as the 95 has a PWM TCC! There is also an extra wire on the harness from PCM to trans!

There's also a way to run one wire to a switch for the Performance table to be used in B bodies. The switch only came in one car, the Trans Am I beleive.

Right now I'm playing with TCC lock up times for the driving I do. Seems they want to kick in at speed limit and then I speed up... so I slow down and the TCC unlocks. Got it all dialed in and when Cruise Control is on they are differant? Look in the mask for a 1998 and there's another table for when in Cruise.

Guess my point was there are so many differant tables you can screw things up! Once I had 1 of the 3 speedo scalers off in the LT1 $EE and the trans shifter 3-4-3-4-3-4-3-4 at 75 MPH and my tranny got hot before I noticed it! CEL for hot trans.

Idea for a spreadsheet would be to enter values from all tables and change one so others change correctly. There is a Speedo Calculater in the $EE thread! OBDII TunerCat and EFI live have them built in and can have 600 changes for tire or gear change.

[Cadride]

My truck is a 94, but after comparing the tables between $0D and $EE I'm getting in way over my head. I was hoping that I could use just the info from the performance tables, but like you said what I don't know could kill my tranny.

Did you put 0 for shift times in the "desired shift time vs TPS" mine is currently 1st 875, 2nd 1000, and 3rd 800 at WOT. I have read from different forums that changing line pressure or changing shift times can have the same affect. I would personally think the way you have gone changing the time would be the easiest on the drivetrain components. I changed the MPH that it shifts at under different conditions mostly for the gearing change that I made.

Thanks for the prewarning on the TCC lock up at this point I don't plan to make changes there.

[EagleMark]

I looked in a bin for $0D and I beleive those settings should be .850 and IIRC I did end up at 0 or .100. Sneak up on them, cut in half and see how it feels. RInse and repeat.

When I was plsying with shift times I did lots of data and tranny temps went down a little with short or 0 shift times compared to stock/sluuuuuuussssssshhhhhhhh

[Glen Koenig]

In the thread title you mention 4L80E, and that is why I came in here, to find information about tuning for a 4L80E behind an LT1. However, it looks to me that most of the information is about tuning for a 4L60E. Am I missing something?

I don't want to hijack your thread. Do you know if the 4L60E tables parameters are basically the same as what I would need for a 4L80E?

[EagleMark]

We are trying to get the tips and trick in one thread so good hijack! What are you looking to do? Although transmiossions are differant the paremeters to adjust are similar.

[Glen Koenig]

We are trying to get the tips and trick in one thread so good hijack! What are you looking to do? Although transmiossions are differant the paremeters to adjust are similar.

Sure, I'll explain it all here.

I have been running a 4L80E with a PCS TCU-2000 behind an LT1 (still controlled by the stock PCM (16188051)), in an Impala SS. Conventional wisdom at that time was that an external TCU was the only option for controlling a 4L80E back when I installed the 4l80e. A lot has changed since then, and now I want to go back to the stock PCM for controlling the trans.

I used Tunercat with the CE version of EEB.tdf to switch the solenoid settings in the constants table, and re-pinned the trans connector. It seems to work fine on a short drive around the block. However, I'm very concerned that I not make a mistake by using incorrect line pressure settings, as well as other key controlling tables, in order to avoid burning it up after a few blasts down the 1320. I have a friend that did the swap using TC and he burned up 2nd gear. After looking at his bin file, it looks like he bumped up the line pressure significantly. Might have been his undoing.

Oh I just got a response from Bryan Herter, who said that he uses the same parameters for the 4L80E as he's been using with the 4L60E. So I guess I have my answer, unless you think otherwise?

Thank you,
Glen Koenig

[RobertISaar]

from a control standpoint, there isn't much difference between the 60 and 80, the biggest two things i can come up with are gear ratios differ a bit, so slip calculated would be off without correction, and that the 80 only uses a single TCC related solenoid (PWM) while the 60 uses a PWM and discrete solenoid.

the 80 has the advantage of an input shaft speed sensor, so slip can be calculated better.

the main calibration difference would be the table used for determining what duty cycle to run the PCS at based on desired pressure and trans temp.



other than that, i can't think of much that would need changed. once the trans temp gets high enough, the line pressure is ran closed-loop to help prevent slippage, which is one of the advantages of a PCS equipped transmission.

[EagleMark]

That's good info that 60 and 80 can use same settings!

Here's some info to think about. No need to use EEB, just flash with EE, it's worked for me many times. 4L60E from 94 which is only one early in year $EEB to 95 $EE trans is 95 has PWM TCC, there's an exrta wire from PCM to trans and I would guess some bin file changes? I just stick to keeping a bin year to trans. If there's any mechanical mods to trans then line pressures should not be touched as they have already been modified.

Use TunerPro RT to datalog transmission! It is a seperate data logging connection from motor data, this will keep an eye on what's happening like shifts and more importantly tempretures! Can see how MPH and shifts line up, does TC do gear change calcs in bin? this could very well be the biggest issue. There's three speed related settings in bin, start from a stock bin and make the overall changes. I know that TC OBDII does this overall and can bee 100s of changes to all the tables! Have any of these wrong and all sorts of shifting issues and heat can occur.

[Blazer3664]

I'd be curious to hear more about this and how it works........

There's also a way to run one wire to a switch for the Performance table to be used in B bodies. The switch only came in one car, the Trans Am (http://rd.bizrate.com/rd?t=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.genesisautoparts.com%2Fprodu ct%2Fall46355x9101aa.htm&mid=197435&cat_id=22000200&atom=10681&prod_id=&oid=2516230605&pos=1&b_id=18&bid_type=0&bamt=295d11ad54194830&cobrand=1&rf=af1&af_assettype_id=10&af_creative_id=6&af_id=6784) I beleive.

One setting for cruising, and another labeled "GET IT!!".

Doesn't really apply for what I am doing, but still interesting.

Jim

[one92rs]

hey eaglemark not sure if the settings from hp tuners is about the same as the tbi pcm. i raised line pressure 10% across. i did not do any more unless i had a corvette servo and a shift kit. in the obd2 system if you went to much more it would start to slip in second. ( band apply ) upon installing a shift kit all pressures were left to stock. do not go to 0 on shift times with the early models of the 60e as i would see clutch bind. what i was able to do with mine in hp tuners which i loved was set it to tps position. mine was a built tranny and shifted really hard. so i would go to tps and from 0 to 25% i would leave the timing around 4.69 or 4.00. that was in milli's. from 25% to 50% i would change the shift time to 2. something. usually 2.00. after 50% with an early model i would bring it to .75 to .60 on shift timing. when i went to later model 80e my shift timing was 0. not sure what the ecm you have will alloow but i was great. this was on a built tranny though. made it much nicer. loved the fact i could could keep a soft hit cruising and have her hit hard when i wanted it to. MAN I MISS THAT TRUCK. the 80E swap was the s**t. would do it again in a heartbeat. except i would go with an older 80E do to the cooling fittings are both in front on older ones. on the newer ones there was a crossover tube that carried it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/02denali/MVC-383S.jpg

[helo]

Coolest thing I've done with my 4l80e is enable 2nd gear TCC lockup. It's freaking sweet. It really shines when pulling hard up a hill in D2, esp if towing...

You have to find all of the relevant tables and do some hacking to make it work comfortably/properly. It took me a long time to figure out why I was getting harsh lockups with light throttle, and it ended up being some tables absent from $0d XDF that needed modification. $0d has 2 tables to control rate of PWM TCC lockup, and then a 4-value array of pointers to these tables (pointer for each gear). The 2nd gear pointer needs to be set, otherwise PCM does instant lockup instead of gradual PWM increase for smooth TCC apply.

Another aggravating issue I had was loosing lockup in manual D2, it was a similar issue. There was a set of arrays somewhere that needed pointers set so the TCC lock/unlock table would be used in D2. There were quite a few of these arrays back to back.

I have some more extensive/detailed notes accumulating on a laptop that I'll post up another day.

To use 4l80e with $0d (4l60e bins), you have to change a few things. Here's a link to FSC with details and some PWM TCC trickery I came up with.
4l80e + $0d_maf (http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/general-discussion/performance/tbi-tuning-87-95-obd-i-ecm-pcm/474759-4l80e-0d_maf.html)

In case that link ever breaks, I had to do 3 essential things:
1) Gear ratio table. switch the values: s/C3D7 6854 4000 2CCC/9ED9 5ED9 4000 3000/
2) Shift points
3) TCC PWM output pin E11 0x31337-haxory:

For $0d, at 0xc38f, I replaced 13 bytes so that pin E11 functions correctly for a 4l80e. Using E10 (on/off TCC pin for 700r4/4l60e) will result in harsh lockups, rumor has it doing ON/OFF instead of PWM lockup can break input shafts under the right conditions (454's, I'd assume)

s/
fc 01 24 1a b3 69 1b 23 07 13 86 04 03/ <-- original code @ 0xc38f in BJYM 0D_95GMC.bin
4f 5f 13 86 04 0A 01 01 01 01 fc 01 24/ <-- my elite PWM hack.

(In the sourcecode, this is just after LC383 and before LC39F.) Read my FSC thread for full explanation/comments/etc..

[91ss]

Noticed in the L99's bin, the shift time tables are all zero except for the 1 -> 2 shift column. Does any one know if the 0's are really that, or does that just then default to the value of the previous populated column. (in the L99's case, it would have the same for all three shifts)

For reference, the 9c1, ss and caddy v4p(IIRC) had non zero values in the 1->2 and 2->3 columns, but then zero's for the 3->4 column.


On a side note, it seems the downshift columns are what make the L99 feel like a slug. When i compared them to the points a bauman control offers as default, I could see why (use one on my mustang).

The up / down shift points are much closer for each %TPS value. Where as in the stock bins, once it up shifts, it takes nearly WOT to get it to down shift again. I adopted the bauman points and feels like it's almost 500 pounds lighter in driving around town. It's upshifts are a little higher and it downshifts more readily.

[1BadAction]

Old thread, but this may help some of you tuning shift points.

[Fast355]

Noticed in the L99's bin, the shift time tables are all zero except for the 1 -> 2 shift column. Does any one know if the 0's are really that, or does that just then default to the value of the previous populated column. (in the L99's case, it would have the same for all three shifts)

For reference, the 9c1, ss and caddy v4p(IIRC) had non zero values in the 1->2 and 2->3 columns, but then zero's for the 3->4 column.


On a side note, it seems the downshift columns are what make the L99 feel like a slug. When i compared them to the points a bauman control offers as default, I could see why (use one on my mustang).

The up / down shift points are much closer for each %TPS value. Where as in the stock bins, once it up shifts, it takes nearly WOT to get it to down shift again. I adopted the bauman points and feels like it's almost 500 pounds lighter in driving around town. It's upshifts are a little higher and it downshifts more readily.

From what little I looked at the L99 calibration (mainly as a point of spark advance reference for a 305 with 305 vortec heads on it) the Upshifts and TCC lockup happen too quickly and are held too long. The 3" stroke motor needs to rev a little to make useabl power for the heavy car.

[95stroker]

Hello,
I have a Golen Built 540 HP -495t dyno numbers we put a 2800-3200 rpm stall converter in a pro built (8yrs ago) 4l60e. Ie Shift kit ect . my issue is that i have issues with the 3-4 shift wanting to slip umless I go WOT . my tuner has my TCC enable off as well as the PN switch . Im not worried about the second . but , I am conserned with the TCC lock up being off on an electrically shifted and controlled tranny. Could this be my issue ? I have zero knowledge on the pcm side of the performance of the trans . i have done all the wrench stuff , pan drop filter change . no codes , the filter flush cleaned it up for a couple runs, adjusted the throttle cable and tps and that helped for a few runs . it could be the 3-4 clutches . But , I need to know if the TCC being off is a problem
thank you all for any help to a novice pcm guy ,
GOD bless,
Rob