another Ford converting

[derbydad276]

ok Im hooked on doing this
67 f 100
71 (335) series 400 engine 9/1 compression from a galaxie 500 C6 trans mission

my cousin owns a wrecking yard I have my choice between a 91 1500 pick up and 93 1500 conversion van to pull the wiring from
both have 350 engines

I plan on using a plug and play distributor http://www.ebay.com/itm/Big-Block-Ford-HEI-Distributor-Red-Cap-50K-Volt-Coil-351C-351M-400-429-460-BBF-/200833799385?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ec2a094d9&vxp=mtr

that uses a GM big cap will this work?

is are the injectors from a 350 big enough? or will I need larger ones?

my fuel tank does not have a return line Im going to have to get creative suggestions please
will I need to run 2 ox sensor's ?

my guess is that trans is no issue? speed sensor off cable to speedo

what am I missing?

[dave w]

I think I would convert a Ford distributor to the GM 7 pin HEI Module. The Car Craft link ( http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/1311_convert_a_ford_or_chrysler_ignition_to_gm_hei/ ) shows a Ford distributor converted to a GM 4 pin HEI module. The same procedure is used to convert to the GM 7 Pin HEI module.



The Ebay distributor won't work.

dave w

[derbydad276]

the dizzy I have now is points so by the time I find a 460 dura spark used for 25 to 40 bucks plus the cost of the gm module Im at the cost of the ebay dizzy

it already uses the same module

[dave w]

I understand what your saying. I was thinking the junkyards would have everything you need, GM and Ford parts for budget prices? Maybe not?

The ebay distributor is set up for plug and play use on an engine with a carburetor, it's not plug and play ready for a TBI fuel injection system. The ebay distributor uses the 4 Pin HEI Module with a vacuum advance. The ebay distributor would need to be converted to the 7 Pin HEI Module. The ebay distributor will need the vacuum advanced and springs removed along with the advance plates welded.

dave w

[gregs78cam]

It sounds like Dave can get you straightened out on the distributor side of things. I would recommend going with the '93 harness and PCM. For fuel pump/tank in a conversion, I have done this on 3 vehicles so far and it works very well.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gm-ecm-pcm-conversion/in-tank-fuel-pump-conversion.html

[dave w]

I would recommend going with the '93 harness and PCM. For fuel pump/tank in a conversion, I have done this on 3 vehicles so far and it works very well.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gm-ecm-pcm-conversion/in-tank-fuel-pump-conversion.html

I would also recommend the 93 ~ 95 TBI PCM, but usually requires a Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS). The budget choice would be the 1991, which can be budget setup to operate without a VSS.

dave w

[derbydad276]

It sounds like Dave can get you straightened out on the distributor side of things. I would recommend going with the '93 harness and PCM. For fuel pump/tank in a conversion, I have done this on 3 vehicles so far and it works very well.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gm-ecm-pcm-conversion/in-tank-fuel-pump-conversion.html


now that is a cool idea

the standard F100 tank is behind the seat Im thinking of relocating behind the rear axel by using a early 80's f150 rear tank

can some one explain how the computerized distributor advances?

[dave w]

can some one explain how the computerized distributor advances?

The quick answer (not 100% complete) is the computerized distributor does not advance / retard the timing, the computer uses a spark table to advance / retard timing. In my way of thinking, it's like advancing / delaying when the coil actually sends spark to the spark plug. There are better explanations, but that how it works in a nutshell.

dave w

[derbydad276]

ok now Im catching on!!!
here is what Ill do

If you can't machine or don't have the time, ship the distributors to:
Mail with check for $150 to:
Trueline
2244 W. Lundy Blvd.
Post Falls, Idaho
83854

Ph# 877-777-5343
208-755-3876

Attention Marlo


also I found http://mail.affordable-fuel-injection.com/ and they are about 25 miles from me and at $265 for a stand alone harness I think it will be the way I go
and Howell EFI sells adapter plates for $95


I can add a bung to my existing fuel tank and run and in line pump the easiest
can I use my existing supply as a return line?

get new knock sensor , coolant sensor, does it matter what VSS ?

[dave w]

ok now Im catching on!!!
here is what Ill do

If you can't machine or don't have the time, ship the distributors to:
Mail with check for $150 to:
Trueline
2244 W. Lundy Blvd.
Post Falls, Idaho
83854

Ph# 877-777-5343
208-755-3876

Attention Marlo


also I found http://mail.affordable-fuel-injection.com/ and they are about 25 miles from me and at $265 for a stand alone harness I think it will be the way I go
and Howell EFI sells adapter plates for $95


I can add a bung to my existing fuel tank and run and in line pump the easiest
can I use my existing supply as a return line?

get new knock sensor , coolant sensor, does it matter what VSS ?

If your shopping for a NEW Universal TBI Harness, I'd like to toss my hat into the ring of options. Below is a link to my Ebay auction for a NEW TBI Universal Wiring Harnessn ... Buy it Now or Best Offer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321263218588?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

dave w

[EagleMark]

Daves has a knock sensor, AFI will not...

[lionelhutz]

If your shopping for a NEW Universal TBI Harness, I'd like to toss my hat into the ring of options. Below is a link to my Ebay auction for a NEW TBI Universal Wiring Harnessn ... Buy it Now or Best Offer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321263218588?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

dave w


That's a nice looking harness. It should lay out over the engine with everything coming out of the harness in the correct area where it needs to be connected. You've also already got the firewall pass-through plug and then it hides all the other parts inside the passenger compartment. The only complaint I would have is the use of an unheated O2 sensor.

The EFI-connection harness has a common harness and then little wire harnesses for each connector all split off at the same time. I can't see that installing as nicely. Also, no firewall pass-through plug and if you did pass that main harness part through the firewall then the OBDI plug would be in the engine compartment. It also looks to use a single wire O2.

Just mentioning the single wire O2 because many people doing TBI swaps are using headers which don't play well with a 1-wire O2. Having a heated sensor already in the harness saves having to add the wires. At least the wires would be there, even if they require extending for some applications.

[dave w]

Adding heated O2 is simple and low cost. Available add on kit conversion, see pics, or install into to the harness before shipping. It always a challenge to sell an aftermarket product ... cost vs. features. Most potential buyers look at the price first, then the features.

dave w

[lionelhutz]

Very nice. Just have to ask.

[derbydad276]

If your shopping for a NEW Universal TBI Harness, I'd like to toss my hat into the ring of options. Below is a link to my Ebay auction for a NEW TBI Universal Wiring Harnessn ... Buy it Now or Best Offer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321263218588?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

dave w


we have a winner its starting to look like Ill be able to do this for less than I thought Ill pm you when Im ready and leave ebay out of it

I wont be using headers so I don't think I need to worry about a heated o2 sensor

next question ****
will using this on a engine 50 CI larger affect the ecm? will I need a chip from the beginning?
Im not looking for high performance Im looking for easy starting and economy
also with dual exhaust will I need 2 o2 sensors?

[mmigacz]

we have a winner its starting to look like Ill be able to do this for less than I thought Ill pm you when Im ready and leave ebay out of it

I wont be using headers so I don't think I need to worry about a heated o2 sensor

next question ****
will using this on a engine 50 CI larger affect the ecm? will I need a chip from the beginning?
Im not looking for high performance Im looking for easy starting and economy
also with dual exhaust will I need 2 o2 sensors?

The only reason I could see needing two o2 sensors is if you wanted to toggle between passenger and drive side of the engine (for troubleshooting problems). Someone please correct me if im wrong, but the ecm only gets feedback from one o2 sensor on a obd1 fuel injection system. Choose a side that makes wiring easier.

If your interested, I can post pictures on how I routed the wiring harness on my 351W? Its in a boat, but the routing on the engine could be dupicated.

[dave w]

next question ****
will using this on a engine 50 CI larger affect the ecm? will I need a chip from the beginning?
Im not looking for high performance Im looking for easy starting and economy
also with dual exhaust will I need 2 o2 sensors?

The 1227747 ECM was used on engines ranging from 4.3 liters to 7.4 liters, so any displacement between 4.3 liters to 7.4 liters is well within the factory design.
If you have an engine is different from a factory displacement, 4.3, 5.0, 5.7 or 7.4 liters you will need a custom programmed chip.
Only one O2 sensor is needed for the 1227747 ECM.

dave w

[lionelhutz]

The larger engine will require tuning to set it up correctly. If you did install injectors that could flow about 15% more fuel then that would somewhat compensate for the larger displacement. It wouldn't be setup right in the computer, but it would likely allow you to get it running.

The computer only supports 1 O2 sensor so you pick a bank and install it.

[delcowizzid]

when i setup conversions i fit O2 bungs in both banks and swap my wideband from side to side and find the leanest side of the engine and then run that side for all tuning monitoring.

[derbydad276]

would this work to convert this distributor to work with tbi instead of
machining 2 distributors?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-84665/applications/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-351-351C-429-460-CLEVELAND-HEI-DISTRIBUTOR-6506-R-/330883252381?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d0a2dc09d&vxp=mtr

[dave w]

would this work to convert this distributor to work with tbi instead of
machining 2 distributors?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-84665/applications/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-351-351C-429-460-CLEVELAND-HEI-DISTRIBUTOR-6506-R-/330883252381?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d0a2dc09d&vxp=mtr

The quick short answer is NO, those parts won't work.

I recommend getting in touch with Dave's Small Body HEI's. http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com/ He does good work. He has done several Ford TBI distributor conversions. Maybe he will do the TBI conversion to the ebay distributor?

I am not the Dave at Dave's Small Body HEI's.

dave w

[EagleMark]

would this work to convert this distributor to work with tbi instead of
machining 2 distributors?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-84665/applications/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-351-351C-429-460-CLEVELAND-HEI-DISTRIBUTOR-6506-R-/330883252381?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d0a2dc09d&vxp=mtrFind a drop in Duraspark distributor and use those wires to hook up to an external mounted EST module.

6087

[lionelhutz]

You won't find a drop-in large cap HEI that you can use with the fuel injection or the parts to bolt-in modify one. You can use that distributor if you are willing to modify it. You would need to lock out the mechanical advance. I would lock the mechanical at about 1/2 way through it's travel.

You also have to disable the vacuum advance. Not connecting it would do it or fix the plate in position or use one of these things.

http://www.summitracing.com/dom/parts/dui-333333/overview/

You also have to change to a 7-pin module from the 4-pin module.

Take a look at this thread, start part way through post 4 for a description of modifying the distributor.

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?p=607510#post607510


Here is a post with the wiring for the small cap module. I believe your harness will have the connector for that module so I'd be tempted to cut out the side of the distributor for that module. That diagram shows a coil + and - terminal . The large cap connects + to the terminal behind the Bat terminal and - to the terminal on the opposite side behind where the tach wire connects. Make sure you run a wire to the middle terminal and ground it.

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/ignition-sytem-howell-tbi-1062727/#post9733166

[JeepsAndGuns]

Find a drop in Duraspark distributor and use those wires to hook up to an external mounted EST module.

6087

This is what I did. My 79 Jeep cherokee with a AMC V8 came from the factory with a motocraft distributor/ignition. I simply locked out the mechanical advance, unhooked the vac advance and uses a 8 pin hei module mounted to a heat sink just like the diagram mark posted.
I'm thinking this would be the quickest, cheapest, and easyist way to do this.

[derbydad276]

Find a drop in Duraspark distributor and use those wires to hook up to an external mounted EST module.

6087

duh ok hit me in the head with a hammer !!!!

[derbydad276]

ok 1 more stupid question

speed sensor?????

will I find it on the trans? or the speedometer ?

[mmigacz]

This is what I did. My 79 Jeep cherokee with a AMC V8 came from the factory with a motocraft distributor/ignition. I simply locked out the mechanical advance, unhooked the vac advance and uses a 8 pin hei module mounted to a heat sink just like the diagram mark posted.
I'm thinking this would be the quickest, cheapest, and easyist way to do this.

I also went this route with my 351W.

609160926093

[lionelhutz]

duh ok hit me in the head with a hammer !!!!

So, going with what Dave posted in the first response then? :laugh:

You'll have to buy a speed sensor to connect inline with the speedometer cable, assuming you haven't done an electronic speedometer conversion.

[derbydad276]

will this work ?

painless wiring #60115 ? $137.00

anybody know of a cheaper one?

[dave w]

will this work ?

painless wiring #60115 ? $137.00

anybody know of a cheaper one?

Yes, http://www.jagsthatrun.com/SpeedSensors_Order.html

dave w

[derbydad276]

Yes, http://www.jagsthatrun.com/SpeedSensors_Order.html

dave w
thanks $85 bucks is a lot better

[dave w]

thanks $85 bucks is a lot better

Rule #1 for EFI...The more you know about EFI the Less Money you pay for EFI! Good thing you found this site with many member who know EFI that are willing help you save MONEY!

dave w

[mmigacz]

I don't need a wiring harness, but I am curious about how painless wiring comes. Does it come with x amount of wire and you cut it to length?

[dave w]

I don't need a wiring harness, but I am curious about how painless wiring comes. Does it come with x amount of wire and you cut it to length?
The Painless sensor is the exact same part as JTR sensor ( same manufacture ... different box). The Painless Box is really expensive for just a box! The Painless sensor does NOT include any additional items / wiring. Only the sensor is shipped inside the Painless Box, nothing less / nothing more.

dave w

[ericjon262]

you'll definately need a chip, or you can get an EBL, which I think is a much better option.

http://www.dynamicefi.com/

if I hadn't gone obdII on my fiero, I'd be running an EBL again. very user friendly, and great customer support.


as far as your injectors go, you can increase the fuel pressure to compensate for lack of injector. the TBI systems only operate at 13 or so PSI

[Stngrmn]

Hello. Please forgive my incorrect use of the forum. Very new to it all. You referenced Trueline in Idaho in one of your posts. I tried to call him but the numbers were no longer in use. Would you have another number that is current? Thank you.