0411 5.3 cam tuning.

[Playtoy_18]

Anybody have any tips for getting a base tune close before it goes in?
This will be a stock 2001 5.3 with .617/.624 lift,231/239 duration on 113 lsa.
Also has a 75mm TB,which I don't believe is stock. Zero emissions,manual trans for th400 with no VSS.
I know alot of it can be calculated to get it close,but best place to start?

I'm looking for stock TB size,from there I figure I will calculate the percentage increase over stock and scale the airflow tables accordingly?
I always referred back to my cam tuning thread and pm's from mondax,ed wright gave some excellent advice in there.

What's the best way to pencil whip this thing before we start it up so it's close?

[Playtoy_18]

This is the rough draft i'm working on for it,if somebody wants a .bin I can get one as well.
And from searching looks like the 75mm is stock for the 5.3,so just need some direction on the cam.

[Fast355]

This is the rough draft i'm working on for it,if somebody wants a .bin I can get one as well.
And from searching looks like the 75mm is stock for the 5.3,so just need some direction on the cam.

For starters I would add a vss to that TH400. Other than that, first thing to do is raise and flatten y our idle timing and slightly raise the idle speed. On my cammed L31, I adjusted the throttle body minimu air rate screw to bring the IAC down to factory specs.

[delcowizzid]

a lot of people are playing with end of injection settings in the fuel tables for good idle with cams to make up for the change in inlet valve opening times

[delcowizzid]

end of injection spreadsheet incase you need it.they are injecting fuel after the exhaust valve has closed on overlap camshafts to stop the fuel smell out the exhaust and gain torque and economy

[Fast355]

end of injection spreadsheet incase you need it.they are injecting fuel after the exhaust valve has closed on overlap camshafts to stop the fuel smell out the exhaust and gain torque and economy

I will have to check this out if its applicable to my L31 0411 application.

[Playtoy_18]

For starters I would add a vss to that TH400. Other than that, first thing to do is raise and flatten y our idle timing and slightly raise the idle speed. On my cammed L31, I adjusted the throttle body minimu air rate screw to bring the IAC down to factory specs.

Idle RPM is around 525-550 at idle currently,going up as temp goes down.
Should I start around 200rpm higher idle across the board?

for idle spark,I need to adjust timing at idle via base spark advance vs load vs rpm (closed throttle In P/N and drive) right?
and again just blanket timing add in the lower cells <800 / <.48 gm/s .
Not the idle overspeed/underspeed spark advance correction vs rpm.

After starting need to adjust the screw till I get IAC reading within range? Sound correct?

Should I line out the idle before the VE/MAF?

Thanks delco,i'll check out end of injection timing as well.

[EagleMark]

For now just set idle to 800 in all idle tables.

Same for spark, all tables.

This will get you started and running easier then can figure out which table is working since there's no VSS and I don't know if there is a Park/Neutral wire?

If the IAC counts will be high until full warm up. But I would turn off key to adjust throttle blade. Then key on should set TPS to 0%. No need for it to think it's off idle after adjustment and put you in different tables.

It's nice to have some idle quality to warm up and be able to drive, then work on VE. This is all of course after things are calibrated for injectors and throttle body changes or?

[Playtoy_18]

I did run a P/N wire,it will be going to the BM shifter. Though i'm still not positive if I should run the P/N or cpp circuit since I'm programming as a manual.Currently it is pinned into P/N,and will only take a minute to swap the pin since they are right next to each other.


Could you elaborate a bit on same spark for all tables?
So reset all the MBT,hi/lo octane and base spark maps to a single constant? Makes sense to eliminate variables a bit.
What would you suggest? 25 or 30 across the board?

[EagleMark]

I'd have to open your tun and look, it was just general advice. But no! Not same spark on entire table. Just idle cells, add 5 to make it start and run at idle with cam. Don't have time right now to open you tune, but think there High Octane, Low Octane and Idle in Park and Idle in gear? Hit all four at idle for now, should be idle depending on P/N wire... see what I mean? We're not sure what tables you'll be in with no VSS and P/N wire not determined to work yet?

Leave MBT alone.

[Playtoy_18]

Made the changes,but they have been slow finishing trans install and other various stuff.
I've been pretty sick the past couple days,tried to work on it today but his shop is much hotter than mine I found out and it was killing me since i'm still pretty sick.
The idle spark was 18 iirc,I raised it 5* as suggested as well as raising idle rpm.
I didn't have a chance to check trans for factory VSS,doubt it is there but going to track one down. He said he thought it came from an early 90's truck,so might have one. He wouldn't know what to look for.
I still need to tie the wires into cab and run appropriate hot/batt+ to the fusebox as well as cab.

Anyway,hopefully start it up this weekend if they can finish up their work. I was afraid I was slowing them down being sick but now not so worried since it doesn't look like they've done much.

[Lextech]

End Of Injection Timing spreadsheet. They are injecting fuel after the exhaust valve has closed on overlap camshafts to stop the fuel smell out the exhaust and gain torque and economy.

Can you explain how to use this spreadsheet? It looks like a good tool and I don't know how to use it.

Jeff

[delcowizzid]

it has been bought to my attention that the spreadsheet is probably of no use anyway read edit in the link it could be changed to work ide say but i can hardly use a spreadsheet let alone write or modify one LOL threads a good read http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?18549-Please-Help-Define-Injector-Timing&p=243936&viewfull=1#post243936

[Playtoy_18]

The main wrench behind this build was called out of town for awhile for work,so it will be sent to another local guy's place to finish up the fuel cell,fuel pump,etc.. (Basically the trans has been installed,that's it.)

I could do it all in my shop and would prefer to,but trying to keep my liability on this build to wiring and tuning. He's a good kid but he basically copied down a build sheet from a forum (so longer ago he couldn't say where) and bought it all.
With zero planning behind this build i'm just helping out where I can so it comes together and is safe,I don't have the time to take the project over.

Good news is I think the trans has a VSS already,bad news is I climbed underneath several times today and each time forgot to verify. It will still be several days before it runs at least,but I need to verify and run the VSS. So also need to jack the rear and see what gear ratio is in it. He bought a narrowed ford 9in for it but hasn't a clue what gears are in it.

I did get the wiring almost wrapped up today. The cab/chassis/engine wiring was horrible,it had been the victim of more than a few swaps and splices.
I'm still cutting crap out randomly here and there. I'll be honest i'm not even getting paid for the cab tie-in stuff. Since it is my first major harness rebuild for someone local (i get no love from all the cars I repaired half the harnesses on) I want it to be nice since I know the people that will be looking at it.

I'll get some pics up,I hope this thing will start in the next few days-then back to tuning.
Thanks so far everyone.

[Playtoy_18]

I realize the shop is a bit of a mess,I was in the middle of some remodel stuff. The blaster is getting a room built and i'm tossing stuff out and need to hit the scrapyard. Wasn't expecting to be working from it for several days.


http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/1969LM7/30cb3cf2af4cfa0e0841291ae9d86b65_zpsfd23ec25.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/1969LM7/20130815_231856_zps1a58c343.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/1969LM7/20130815_231850_zpsd30522a5.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/1969LM7/20130815_231843_zps96f7ff44.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/1969LM7/20130815_231838_zps10c67bf2.jpg

[Playtoy_18]

I don't have completed pics with loom on and harnesses tacked yet,still adjusting and messing with stuff.
I cut alot of wiring from that fusebox area and coming out of the firewall connector. There was 14g wire (4x) going from under the dash/spliced into N/S and Rev switches out the firewall,down the tranny tunnel,under the truck and then thru a hole drilled in the tunnel below seat and then terminated with spade connectors (wouldn't fit thru hole).
All this,instead of running a 12" wire from where they spliced to where they ended up-inside the truck.
I have a pretty good pile of wire,basically everything I dealt with I cut out and started new if not stock.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/1969LM7/20130815_231830_zps3d65d907.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/1969LM7/20130815_231907_zps1d336e41.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/1969LM7/20130827_150533_zps7945c3e3.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/1969LM7/20130819_182331_zpsc883a988.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/1969LM7/20130827_150452_zpsfecad215.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/1969LM7/20130827_150541_zpsa172cc7b.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/1969LM7/20130827_150416_zps1389fdb7.jpg

[Playtoy_18]

Well,i've had this truck the past week or so messing with it slowly.When it came back the only thing that had been done is seats installed,fuel pump mounted to frame,headers mounted and some fuel hose ran.
So I just started fixing stuff that needed fixing.
Got the nitrous installed,got the cables ran for remote battery,rewired/installed the remote door kit,installed the tranny lines,a ps loop (till we get proper fittings) and a host of other stuff.
Finally got it to a startable condition,just to let it idle for awhile. Got it fired up a couple times then it just stopped trying.
Checked codes,got a P0342 and P0343.
Kinda wierd cause it means low voltage and high voltage circuit errors on CMP. Broke out meter and doublechecked circuit (I had already triplechecked everything) but all is good. CMP looks good,going to try a different pcm that I know is good and if it passes find a known good cmp to try.
After that guess i'll be pulling a valve cover and checking the work on the cam install.
I'll take some more pics,starting to look a little cleaner.

[Caleditor]

Try this tune. You may need to make changes to the Idle parameters, but it should start and run. I think this car had a cam and T-Body.

[Playtoy_18]

Thanks AJ,i'll give it a try.Fired it up for the first time yesterday,but seems to be flooding itself trying to start.
I can crank in "clear flood" mode for a minute and get it to start eventually but seems to have too much fuel.
I finally noticed (after 30 times in and out from under truck) that they have the wrong 02's and they aren't even plugged in. So I need to run to the parts store and get the proper ones.


I did get it started though,and the idle seemed okay for a minute. I killed it though because of the 02 issue,no sense running it without proper components.
I'll need to reduce the crank fueling i'm guessing,i'll open up tunercat and give it a look shortly.

[Playtoy_18]

Well,got this thing fired up again and idling yesterday,but have been having an issue with first crank/fire.I attributed it to the 02 sensors,but got them installed and now i'm pretty sure I need to swap out the plugs and do something about the open exhaust.
The plugs are ACDelco copper (#6) and the headers are open.
Going to swap plugs out for correct platinums and see if it fixes my long cold crank.


Learning to get EFIlive setup at the same time,going to play with it for a little before I install LM1.
My 02's don't look to be bouncing correctly,one bank is lean (150-300mv) while the other is sticking close to switchpoint.
Not sure if that is due to open header sucking in air or a lean bank,of course this is all at cold start.

[Playtoy_18]

Found my hard start issues,wierd too because it wasn't missing or even running badly when it idled.Something went wrong when they installed the cam,I checked compression when I found cyl 4 and 7 dead and both were down.
I had noticed some clatter around #7 so pulled the valve covers.
All the exhaust pushrod guides were dug out and 4/7 pushrods were bent to hell.
Stopped to give him the bad news,his response was " well I guess now we can quit f'in around and make some real power."
At least this time I know it will be done right.

[Playtoy_18]

Here's what I found,all exhaust pushrods look the same.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/1969LM7/38f6a8d43fe425f2135160c3cc546acc_zpsb9d3f831.jpg

Nanu-nanu
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/1969LM7/f556f94536c6033f7f166b6ae0dcd3bd_zpsc221252c.jpg

The 5.3 swap is on the left,on the right is an S10 project i'm finishing up for another customer.
A buddy of mine built the engine,I did the intake and header coating and now the belt setup,complete wiring/guages etc.. It will be street legal.
There is a rivalry here as well,and a $1k bill to the winner when it's all said and done. (S10 is about 450-500hp on motor,and setup to run a 200+ N20 shot.)
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/1969LM7/0c342a6e42412270c0828d2080ecdf07_zps85b85e03.jpg

[Lextech]

That pic of the S10 makes it look like a Stubby Beast. How about a side and rear shot of the S10?

Jeff

[Playtoy_18]

I can take some more,but it is in the back of my shop so they won't be great. Took that pic while rolling the 69 out to roll the S10 behind it.
The bed/front clip is easily removable so I told him to leave that crap at the house since I don't have to have it. (plus it had exhaust done on the trip to my shop so easier).
Makes it look very stubby :)
The only drawback I see is the rear suspension(stock leafs with modded trac bars),I don't like it but that's not my area.

[Playtoy_18]

Here's some "before" pics I took. I'll take the after pics when i'm done with it before it leaves shop (goes from here straight to paint for satin black/flat clear)http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/377ciS10/7439ea9ca3a5be3ad49c7c231b03d166_zpsc03ca391.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/377ciS10/b5b94f67fe709f142c45488bdb6e64d7_zps0cbee04b.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/377ciS10/f5ae9acf4c39ad81fbc8842e1831c68c_zpsfd7ed2a1.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/377ciS10/94a12a56466d1e13aee2f25a6a8bf4ad_zps31e4b2c1.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/377ciS10/13a8461b020330e2227aa89004cb9515_zps11e38b23.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p275/edwinleahy/Full%20Throttle%20Tuning/377ciS10/6e0b066b9f83a355b88969734cd4ac14_zps09ced7df.jpg

[Playtoy_18]

Finally got the 5.3 rebuilt,dented every piston and bent every exhaust pushrod.
Also had daylight thru every exhaust valve.
I ported the heads,put a double roller timing set on it and degreed the cam. Also did new cam and rod bearings and ceramic coated them as well as all the valves and the intake runners.
Can't remember everything,but she rumbles like a beast now.
http://youtu.be/DaYLQSbaIh8

[EagleMark]

I hate when that happens! :laugh:

I did that on my first big cam install to a 327 Chevy I put in a 67 Nova back in 1977... just bent all the pushrods though, no other damage. Learned a lot about building engines that year...

[Playtoy_18]

To clarify,I didn't do the first cam install that was 4 teeth off!
I did the rebuild with new floating rods/pistons and rebuilt heads etc..
My work so far is cherry,truck finally outta here thursday.

Now gotta pull in wifes car,yank powertrain and prep for 88fiero.
While i'm doing that,picked up a $300 5.3 to rebuild for my 4.8 shop truck,rebuild 4.8 to go in my 48.
One of those LS's is getting a turbo (prob my truck) and the other is getting discussed now.
Other will likely get something stupid like twin M90's for the look since I got some laying around shop.

[Playtoy_18]

Well,truck is gone but still needs tuned.
Way too loud to mess with here,I told him I need exhaust put on it so he had straight pipes put on...
It's parked in his barn now,needing tuned badly.
Good news is I have gotten much more familiar with efilive scantool.
Gonna try and get it idling today if I can make it to his house. He lives on top of a big hill/mountain on a curve and right now be lucky to drive well on flat surface with all the ice.
Figure I should be able to get it idling though.
Played with it a little to try and see if I can figure out with .bin I did,but gonna go ahead and drop AJ's file in and start with it as my baseline.
Biggest issue right now seems to be airflow at idle,and rpm swings high/low idling when in gear at idle and generally dies when hits low.
My logs so far not worth anything,pipe extension didn't seem to work great.

[Playtoy_18]

Well,dropped AJ's file in as a baseline and was sure as hell closer than what i've been playing with.
Now just having issues playing with software (efilive)
Got my LM1 hooked up and reading on bank 1,but when trying to use the maps to tune VE I can't get the cells/corrections over to the VE table.
Got plenty of counts,but when I try to copy with labels/multiply with labels it just puts on the corresponding cells to (500.00).
Checking the cells averages in the map and just shows (25.00) in all the logged cells.

Downloading and reinstalling efilive now,seem to have lost all my pid list files somehow.
About to restart,gonna try again in a few and hopefully get somewhere.

[Playtoy_18]

Here's the tune file and a log.
Seems to be logging from W02AFR2 instead of W02AFR1,not sure how to change that.
That is likely my issue since that pid is staying at 25.00 *solved this problem I think.

I can post as a .bin or .cal if needed.

*Trying to get log file up,can't post an .efi or .csv file so gonna try and export to .txt

[Playtoy_18]

Okay,figured out the issue with wideband.
A couple things I notice offhand are the fuel seems to look okay,but i'm not getting anything as far as fuel trims.
I checked the file,and unless i'm missing something (likely) the fuel trims are enabled.
I've disabled the MAF while logging the above log,and have also made a file that have the trims disabled to use today.
The wideband is installed in bank 1,but I also had him install a bung in bank 2 and I will move the sensor there and verify that bank is running okay also.
On a log yesterday I noticed that B2S1 was pretty flat on stoich it looked,so might need to check wiring or possibly even sensor (new).

[EagleMark]

.efi logs are now on attachment list.

[Playtoy_18]

Anybody know why i'm not getting any fuel trim corrections?
I've been trying to get the VE tuned,so the maf signal is pulled but i'm not showing any short or long term corrections and don't know why.

[EagleMark]

You have the stock bin or .tun to compare with?

If you can't find something wrong when it should be CL and getting fuel trims? Lean it out and see if you can get the O2 warmed up?

I opened this in EFI Live and found these warnings!
Out of Range calibration summary: 06:40:05 pm, Monday Jan 20, 2014

Engine Calibration.Fuel.DFCO
{B3308} DFCO M6 Enable Temp, was out of range when loaded.

Engine Calibration.Fuel.Mixture
{B3614} Hot PE Mode Coolant Temp Threshold, was out of range when loaded.

Engine Calibration.Fuel.Lean Cruise
{B3636} Vehicle Speed Lean Cruise Enable, was out of range when loaded.

Engine Calibration.Fuel.Trim
{B3803} Maximum Coolant Temp to Enable LTFT, was out of range when loaded.

Engine Calibration.Torque Limiting
{B6615} Max Torque, Front Axle, was out of range when loaded.
{B6616} Max Torque, Rear Axle, was out of range when loaded.
{B6617} Max Torque, Front Prop Shaft, was out of range when loaded.
{B6618} Max Torque, Rear Prop Shaft, was out of range when loaded.

[EagleMark]

Bank 1 Sensor 1 is pretty rich in .900 range while Bank 2 Sensor 1 is in .400 range. So Bank 1 seems rich along with PO355 Coil 5 Inginition Circuit MIL?

[Playtoy_18]

I might have gotten my logs mixed up,had a coil issue that we solved earlier.
I did compare with a stock bin,but didn't see anything that woud shut trims off.
I'll goover it again and look.
funny,I didn't get any warnings from efilive about calibration stuff out of limits.
i'll look over the compare again.

[Playtoy_18]

I found my compare file,i'll post it here.
I haven't ran a compare of it now,mainly cause I didn't make many changes besides fans,trans,ve and spark I think along with a couple codes.
Looking over the compare file,I want to start back over with a stock file though.
There are alot of changes in there,and not sure that any of it applies to mine so think it might be the easiest way.
I will load up the one I made and first want to see if trims kick in and sensors read correctly. Hoping I don't have a wiring issue.
First need to verify that cyl5 isn't missing and the 02's are working correctly though.
(The Teddy4log was the latest one,I didn't mean to post because it was short but forgot which is which till checked timestamp. It doesn't show any DTC's so must've been after I fixed coil issue and got rid of uneeded fan2 and alt dtc's)

[Playtoy_18]

This is the file i'm going to put in and see if I maybe the trims and 02's will work.
Not sure if maybe i'm running into an issue like you guy's described from the case ground sensors so figured this would rule that out if nothing else.
I don't know which OS uses what,but remember I did use case ground sensors and this should be the correct file from my searching back when.
I did put in the VE and spark tables as well from the last VE log,figure they're closer than the stock was.
Also I changed PE to eq. ratio 1.00 so I wouldn't need to worry about it altering values.
I'm added a disconnect to the MAF signal wire,I have been disconnecting it to fail the sensor for tuning.
Hopefully head out there shortly.

[Playtoy_18]

Only had a little bit of time today with it,first loaded up the file I made and then fired it up.
Still no trims,and temp gun showed me cyl5 wasn't hitting,so I started diag.
Found a short to ground on the bank1 ignition low reference circuit that traced back to the pcm pin.
i've got a spare 0411 but didn't have time to swap it in.
Gonna diag the bank 2 02 sensor tomorrow and see why it's stuck at switchpoint.

[Playtoy_18]

Ok,fixed the 02 sensor issue. I pinned a wire for B2S1 into B2S2 by mistake,checked and now working okay and getting trims looks like.

Can't figure out coil issue though.
P0355 coil control circuit
checked and replaced plug,ohm'ed out new wire,swapped coil in.
Have good ground to coil,have 12v on both power and control circuit. Low reference is open/grounded with keyon.
Checked against the other bank and all seems okay.
Swapped out for two different pcm's and still no change.
I'm going to try swapping another coil onto it but not holding my breath.
my buddy is a gm tech,and he was going to double check for me but thought that the low reference circuit was a 5v ref.
Low ref signals splice together for each bank and go back to a single low ref circuit to C2(red) pin 60.
That pin is grounded to case,but also grounded on the other pcm's I tried so assuming it is as it should be. (waiting for buddy to confirm).

I need help or suggestions.
about to go spend a couple hours at my part time @ AZ and hopefully have time to find and go thru a complete system description for Gm ignition.
Any ideas please post up,so tired of messing with this thing.

[EagleMark]

I just had a Low Ref Pink/Black wire through me for a loop last week, it was supposed to be 0 volt. It was for Cam Position Sensor...

Could have swapped coils and see if it moved.

[Playtoy_18]

I swapped in what should have been a good coil,but can't be for sure so i'll go ahead and swap it across banks tomorrow.
Also the low ref is apparently a ground,not a 5v ref.
Buddy suggested checking with a test light instead of a meter so it will put some load on the circuit.
He also suggested the wire could be broken but still showing no resistance,apparently he's ran across the issue before where wire is touching enough to ohm out but then fail.
I've had wires broken inside insulation before but they didn't ohm out and showed open.(neutral safety,damn plug on 4l60-pretty much have to pull on the wires to get it off)
So have a few suggestions to try tomorrow,gonna try to get an early start on it.

[Playtoy_18]

Swapped coil across banks,ran an overlay on the control circuit and neither worked.
Re-ohmed all the wires again,checked with test light and meter and nothing.
Decided to swap coil harness since only ran overlay to the coil harness connector.
Found harness pinched when i pulled it,swapped to other bank and problem gone.
So swapped in a different coil harness and all is good now.
Had to bail cause it was 25* in his shop and had some stuff to do,tomorrow i'll get back on tuning it.
Thanks for suggestions mark.

[Playtoy_18]

Well,got the VE about as well as I can get it without being able to drive it much.
Went ahead and enabled closed loop and started logging for MAF correction.
This is the current tune and the log I ran for MAF as well as the final log I did for VE.
Really need to get a lower tstat on it,this high temp stock stuff ain't working for me.
I just need it safe enough he won't blow it up till I can drive it down the road longer.
These logs were mainly done pulling out of his driveway and up or down the hill in front of his house and driving about a block and back.