converting a Chrysler 383 big block to GM injection

[Chadly B]

I have done a lot of research on transplanting ls motors in to Chevy's that didn't have them, and I'm not going to lie, If I don't have to show my face around my mopar buddies, I would seriously consider just dropping a 5.3 Chevy in this Volare wagon of mine.....but, here's my thought, a 6.0 is approximately a 370 cubic inch motor, I'm thinking of cabbaging the harness, sensors and inectors, and coils off of a 6.0 and modifying an intake to make this 383 think it's a gm......is this going to be a total pain in the rear, or more doable than I'd like to think? I know the crank trigger and the cam sensor will be fun right off the bat, but otherwise I'm thinking it could work?

[EagleMark]

I've done several 383 and 413 and 440 engines but used a TBI system. I also take the top half of the GM distributor and bottom half of the Mopar distributor and machine the two together so you have a fuel and spark system.

[Six_Shooter]

Totally do-able.

Depending on the dizzy you use, you might be able to get away with just using the GM ICM, and not need to do a bunch of machine work.

It sounds like however, you're thinking of using an OBD2 system, that would be more of a pain that you need to get into.

I use OBD1 GM systems currently without issue.

FWIW, I have a 1227749 running my Nissan 2.8L in my 1973 Datsun 240Z. I also have a 16197427 PCM running a crossfire injection manifold and 4L60E in my Grandfather's '71 Chev pick, up, a 1227730 in a friends 1967 Chev pick up running a 409 style engine with custom MPFI intake, and a few other conversions. ;)

[dave w]

As six-shooter said, depending on the distributor the OBDII system could work. One of my current projects, is converting a LS 0411 PCM to an old school chevy V8. The LS 0411 PCM needs a crank trigger and cam position sensor. GM designed the cam position sensor into the distributor. The pics below are my solution to the crank position sensor. Because I'm using a GM engine, I can use a GM distributor that has a cam position sensor.

dave w

[Chadly B]

so, in theory, could I machine something smaller, yet similar on the top of a 383 distributor for the cam sensor signal, if I do this, I'd prefer to run the 8 coils like the ls as well, instead of like an hei coil?

[Chadly B]

I just realized what I asked....oops....so, what distributor would I need from a chebbie to have the cam sensor?

[EagleMark]

There's one Caddilac EFI distributor with cam sensor that can be machined onto your distributor... or there's what Dave is making. I know MSD has a cam/Crank sensor kit as well but have never used one...

[Chadly B]

Dave, I'm wondering, since most LS motors use either a 24 tooth or 58 tooth reluctor wheel, how do you make this work with (forgive me, very green) 4 teeth? I originally thought I'd just buy a crank reluctor wheel and adapt it to the front of the engine, and perhaps an msd distributor for the cam sensor signal.....

[dave w]

Dave, I'm wondering, since most LS motors use either a 24 tooth or 58 tooth reluctor wheel, how do you make this work with (forgive me, very green) 4 teeth? I originally thought I'd just buy a crank reluctor wheel and adapt it to the front of the engine, and perhaps an msd distributor for the cam sensor signal.....

GM used the 4 tooth Vortec reluctor wheel and the '0411 PCM on the 2001 ~ 2002 Express Van 5.7 liter Vortec engine. The Express Van used the L31 5.7 liter Vortec distributor with the cam position sensor in the distributor. The Express Van .bin file could be modified for the Chrysler 383.


dave w

[Chadly B]

Very cool, can the dizzy be modded to work with the 383 as well? I'm guessing mate the top of the L31 dizzy on to the 383 dizzy.....I'm feeling more comfy with this all the time.....

[dave w]

Very cool, can the dizzy be modded to work with the 383 as well? I'm guessing mate the top of the L31 dizzy on to the 383 dizzy.....I'm feeling more comfy with this all the time.....

Maybe an aftermarket distributor (about $60) could be made to work? The factory distributors are made of a plastic kind of material.

dave w

[EagleMark]

Look at the FAQ for Marlo who does the machine work for the distributors I started about ten years ago if you need a machinist.

One problem I see with that distributor that Dave is mentioning is it looks very large circufirence. The first hybrid distributor I did for a 383/413/440 Mopar was to short and it was a small car EFI and hit the head when we dropped it in. Next one was an inch higher. So double check your clearence before deciding on a height! :thumbsup:

[Chadly B]

So, if I just went the msd route, would I be ok?

[EagleMark]

MSD 6 has a tach output that is the proper square wave signal needed by the ECM without buring it up. But this makes it a fuel only system, no ECM spark curve.

[dave w]

So, if I just went the msd route, would I be ok?

If your still planning on the LS computer? If MSD distributor, offers a 1x cam position sensor for the distributor? The GM disitributor is 1x, but the reluctor plate is split 175 / 185 degrees. The extra 5 degree split might be for the "Crank Position Learn"?

dave w

[Six_Shooter]

Has there been a decision on the ECM that is going to be used?

Using an OBD1 ECM, could mean that a Chryco dizzy could be much the same way I used a Nissan Dizzy on my Nissan L28 for a while.

Even if an OBD2 system is going to be used, I can't see why a Chryco dizzy couldn't be slightly modified to work, without trying to swap heads of dizzys.

Remember K.I.S.S.

[Chadly B]

no, ecm hasn't been decided for sure, and I do want to keep it simple....but this 0411 sounds like a decent deal, and I'm a long way off, the trick is I don't have a dizzy with this motor, so I have to buy one anyway.....just trying to compile info in my head......

[EagleMark]

411 is awesome! But it is not the simple solution!

[Chadly B]

I suspect there isn't a simple solution.....would I be smarter to use a megasquirt system, or just a different ecm, I definitely want it to be multi-port, especially if I decide to move up to turbocharging down the road.....

[Six_Shooter]

There are OBD1 GM (Delco) ECMs that will run MPFI.

I currently have a 1227749 running my Turbocharged Nissan L28 (2.8L I6), without issue.

If it was me in your shoes I would look at the 1227730/1227749 family of ECMs. Many different engine configurations have been run with these ECMs, from N/A 4 cyl to turbo V8s, and anything in between.

[Chadly B]

so, if I'm going to start an ebay search, do i search by those numbers, or is there a list of vehicles I need to be looking for?

[Chadly B]

I am willing to look in to some of those ecms, wondering what vehicles to find them on. The big reason I was trying to go the LS route was because I have a friend that has the hptuners software.....but apparently, there's plenty of software out there for this type of thing.....

[Six_Shooter]

The 1227730 came in a lot og GM cars between 1988 and 1994. Cavaliers, Berettas, '90 to '93 F-bodies, and other cars that I can't think of right now.

The 1227749 was used in the Turbo Sunbird, Grand Am, Syclone and Typhoon, and at least some Quad 4 equipped Berettas.

The difference between a '7749 and a '7730 is one has two injector drivers ('7749), and the other has an extra Quad driver ('7730). In many applications they can be used in pace of the other without affecting the way the car runs. I haven't found which applications use the extra quad driver, though I suspect it has to do with emissions equipment.

The 1227730 (and replacements) will likely be the easier one to find of the two.

I would likely search by actual service number, you will likely come across some replacement service numbers that usually start with 1619____, as well.

I would stay away from the 1227165, because it is a MAF system, and I find them to be more difficult to tune than Speed Density. It also adds considerable cost by adding the MAF sensor, which can also affect installation ease as well.

[EagleMark]

I am willing to look in to some of those ecms, wondering what vehicles to find them on. The big reason I was trying to go the LS route was because I have a friend that has the hptuners software.....but apparently, there's plenty of software out there for this type of thing.....
TunerPro is free to try. I think $39 to buy and you get rid of the nag screen when opening. For $39. it has brought me a lot of fun. So customizable too. All the XDF and ADX are available for free. We have more here in the phot gallerey thanks to Robert then TunerPro has on their website as he would rather concentrate on TunerPro Software. And no per vehicle license fees! Buy one tunerPro and do 1000's of cars.

Hey Six Shooter! What is the differance for a injector driver and a quad driver? I know what the injector driver does...

[Six_Shooter]

A Quad driver is used for controlling things like the fuel pump relay, air injection, CCP, A/C compressor clutch, shift light and other similar devices.

[EagleMark]

Thanks Six!

You know the simplest way to do a distributor is a duraspark conversion in the disrtributor, lock out advance and use an externel EST mounted on an aluminum plate.

[Six_Shooter]

Thanks Six!

You know the simplest way to do a distributor is a duraspark conversion in the disrtributor, lock out advance and use an externel EST mounted on an aluminum plate.

Quite like how I did in my Datsun, for the first few months I had it injected. ;)

I think I kinda described that earlier in this thread. :P

[Chadly B]

And I can still make use of the 8 ls coils, correct?

[EagleMark]

No I don't think so... Duraspark just gives the proper signal to the EST. When you install it you add the relector and phase it about 8 degrees advance so when the ECM adds spark it goes to the correct cylnder.

Still cap and rotor and wires.

[Chadly B]

Well, that wasn't the exact answer I was looking for, but, I can live with it........am I limited, then in choice of throttle body, or can I use the ls cable driven throttle body?

[Six_Shooter]

You can use any cable driven throttle body.

You can also use DIS, but it is a bit involved to set-up.

I would first get the engine running on a dizzy, then swap to the DIS, just due to some of the code changes and mechanicals that are needed.

[Chadly B]

Yeah, that's what I thought I'd do.....I got a quote on the megasquirt stuff, and It's a little (a lot for now on my budget) more than I want to spend at the moment, so, so far this is my most viable option.....anybody done business with a-1 cardone? I found a couple 7749 ECMs (refurbed) for around 80 bucks, then I still have to dig a harness out of one of the cars, but, one thing at a time.... ;)

[EagleMark]

You know somewhere I read you can do DIS with a 7747 but it's no better timing than a distributor.

LS has cable and Drive By Wire.

Your just trying to combine several systems and it can probably be done... but mans that a lot of re inventing the wheel...

[Chadly B]

please don't mistake this for arguing, but, what should I do differently to make a good mpfi system for this engine, the only reason I was thinking an ls throttle body was they are pretty easy to find....if there's a better/cheaper option, I'm all ears....I haven't figured out for sure what injectors I'll be using yet either, I figured I'd try to buy a set of those new...just to be safe...but if there is a reliable option otherwise, i'm open to that too, I really don't want to make this extremely complicated, I just really want it to be mpfi rather than tbi for ease of turbo charging down the road....

[EagleMark]

Well first there is not a MPFI intake made for your engine. So that is expensive and complicated.

TBI will do all your engine needs.

Turbo is a story one of the other guys will have to inform you on. But first you would have to build another engine with forged pistons and turbo cam (probably not made for that engine either) and hope the head gaskets hold up. Theres a guy on Pirate that built a turbo IH engine and did not get 100 miles and blew a head gasket. It's all for sale... and I know for a fact the IH engine is stronger than a Mopar.
http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/show ... hp?t=16404 (http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/showthread.php?t=16404)

[Chadly B]

Yes, I do know that I'll have to build the motor with good forged pistons, rods and crank.....at the moment, as it sits, it needs rebuilt anyway, so, I'd build a good foundation to start, but, the more digging I do, the more I think I'm going to by a 5.9 magnum complete.....I'll be time ahead at least...

[EagleMark]

Since I just rebuilt an international engine, properly but no added expences and it cost $1800. parts, $800. in machine work and at least another $200 in incedentals... then my time, shop and tools? I would say it would be cheaper to buy a newer motor, trans and get the harness and ECM. Is cheaper and easier.

And I haven't even injected it yet? got 90% of parts...

I priced a Complete Votec motor, trans, harness ECM, guarenteed, I think 32k miles for $1500. from Spaldings.