another cable question

[greggbruceauto]

Frustrated: I don't know enough to figure this out --so now I'm asking for someone who knows more than I: will I be able to make these two work with Tunerpro? or do I just need to buy a new cable with the FTDI chip in it?
I have tried almost every combination of settings I can think of, even tried installing the FTDI drivers just for giggles, and tunerpro still won't recognize the cable

http://www.iogear.com/product/GUC232A/

http://www.aldlcables.com/sc/details.asp?item=aldlobd1

[EagleMark]

A long long time ago, when laptops stopped serial ports and went USB, there were many issues with serial to USB converter cables, some worked, some did not. Seems like the ones that worked had installation CD with drivers?

The one on Moates site is USA-19HS

Here's some drivers for that...
http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtModelID=3914

[RobertISaar]

to deal with GM OBD1 8192 baud communications reliably, you NEED a FT232R to do the work of converting data back and forth. 8192 isn't a standard data rate, which is why it's so unsupported.

[greggbruceauto]

A long long time ago, when laptops stopped serial ports and went USB, there were many issues with serial to USB converter cables, some worked, some did not. Seems like the ones that worked had installation CD with drivers?

The one on Moates site is USA-19HS

Here's some drivers for that...
http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtModelID=3914

yep, have the install cd, bought the cable brand new. I will try these drivers, tho.

[greggbruceauto]

to deal with GM OBD1 8192 baud communications reliably, you NEED a FT232R to do the work of converting data back and forth. 8192 isn't a standard data rate, which is why it's so unsupported.

Sooooooooo -- does that mean my cable (RS232) definitely will NOT work -- and I need one that says FT232R ? Is that a 'type' of serial interface?

[RobertISaar]

the FT232R is an IC that will directly convert UART/TTL to USB. it could be paired with other circuits if needed to convert to RS232, but it's more complexity than necessary unless you already have a nice RS232 interface that you don't want to replace.

[greggbruceauto]

Sooooooooo -- does that mean my cable (RS232) definitely will NOT work -- and I need one that says FT232R ? Is that a 'type' of serial interface?
so is that yes, or no?

[greggbruceauto]

I guess my real dilemma :mad1: is whether or not to get another adapter
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/FTDI/CHIPI-X10/?qs=m5ogiX/X43nzRp8XLQeQIA==
or
http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtModelID=3914

that makes my old cable
http://aldlcable.com/sc/details.asp?item=aldlobd1

work, or take it in the ass :rolleye: for this shit I have already purchased, scrap it all and buy a whole new all in one ALDL to USB already made cable....

http://aldlcable.com/sc/details.asp?item=aldlobd1u

[bobdec]

Just for drill, does you PC recognize either of the cables in device manager - com ports . I assume you have good cig lighter +12volts for the 2nd cable (ALDL/RS232) you listed, that's a known good one.

[greggbruceauto]

Just for drill, does you PC recognize either of the cables in device manager - com ports . I assume you have good cig lighter +12volts for the 2nd cable (ALDL/RS232) you listed, that's a known good one.

Yes, the cig lighter has good power and ground, it will run my snap on scanner and get data from the car just fine.

yeah, windows recognizes the serial to usb 'bridge' it calls it. It changes com ports depending on which usb port I plug it into.... but still can't get tunerpro to pass the cable test, no matter what settings I put into tunerpro.
I check in device manager to find what com port it is and set that in tunerpro... it always says 'cable not found or not functioning -- tested at 8192 baud' , even if it is not hooked up to the vehicle, (as mentioned on another post -- says it will fail if hooked up to the car) and the yellow message is at the bottom of tunerpro "DA not connected" message shows.

I have even tried unchecking the box for 'use 16550 compatible UART' in device manager properties for the com port to see if that makes a difference.

It's now set at 9600 baud because there's no 8192 option -- wonder if I set it slower if that would work? -- haven't had a chance over the last few days to even get close to the car.

The usb adapter cable has an led on it -- I'm assuming to indicate data flowing, but is on solid if the 12v on the aldl cable is plugged in-- not sure if that's any good for it or not.
The guy at micro-center said there are only 3 serial to usb chips made -- no matter what brand cable you buy it will have one of those in it -- this one matches the specs of the tripplite keyscan usa19hs but he said there's no way he knows to tell which chip it has in it.... (they don't stock the tripplite) ( dunno if he knows what he's talking about or not, but he seemed confident in what he knew)

The aldl cable itself will put the car into diagnostic mode with the jumper set one way( check engine light flashes with lean/rich O2 crosscounts with engine running, or will flash code 12 with key off (no codes stored) ) and with the jumper set the other way, the engine dies. That's without the serial to usb adapter hooked up. and also with the 12v cigarette adapter either plugged in or not -- doesn't make a difference)

The FTDI CHIPI-X10 is only 15 bucks -- the newer aldl to usb complete cables are around 60..... I'd rather spend the 15 if I knew it would work......


I wish I knew where/what to read to understand this stuff, but when typing in rs232 to usb or anything like that, all I get is links to buy some part. If I could learn how this stuff works, then I could figure it out myself.

[RobertISaar]

the CHIPI is a USB to RS232 converter... while it could be used, it would be much simpler to use a USB to TTL/UART converter.

http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Cables/USBTTLSerial.htm

if you're into FTDI sourced stuff, that page would be very useful. you'll want one with 5V signaling.

[EagleMark]

Have you ever checked the driver?

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1557-Cable-Installation-to-TunerPro-RT

[greggbruceauto]

Have you ever checked the driver?

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1557-Cable-Installation-to-TunerPro-RT

yep, already did that -- found that post a week or so ago....

[greggbruceauto]

the CHIPI is a USB to RS232 converter... while it could be used, it would be much simpler to use a USB to TTL/UART converter.

http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/Cables/USBTTLSerial.htm

if you're into FTDI sourced stuff, that page would be very useful. you'll want one with 5V signaling.

ummmmm, don't see any serial DB9 plugs on that page....
and no, it doesn't have to be FTDI,

IT JUST HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT WORKS

[RobertISaar]

with what you want to do, you're not going to find many ready-made solutions... reason being that almost everything using a DB9 connector is going to be a RS232 implimentation.... assuming the end of your cable that already exists is just a cable(no MAX232 circuit or something similar in it to convert RS232 to TTL/UART), then a RS232 converter won't work and would likely damage the PCM if it were attempted to be used.

[greggbruceauto]

with what you want to do, you're not going to find many ready-made solutions... reason being that almost everything using a DB9 connector is going to be a RS232 implimentation.... assuming the end of your cable that already exists is just a cable(no MAX232 circuit or something similar in it to convert RS232 to TTL/UART), then a RS232 converter won't work and would likely damage the PCM if it were attempted to be used.

what is MAX 232 -- this is the first it has been brought up.... I thought you said 'FT232' -- how does that differ from RS232?
I posted the links at the beginning of the thread -- the aldl cable I have was the standard when laptops still had serial ports. It was specifically made to use with OBD1 -- I find it difficult to believe it is such a rare bird now (and they still sell it brand new) since usb has become so popular .....that was the cable 'they' all said to use at the time --- how can it be it is so difficult to make that data enter into a newer computer -- they all still use windows, and they all still only understand 1's and 0's --- and it's STILL the same stream of data it was 14 years ago..... today's computers still understand touchtone phone sounds.... those have been around since the 70's .....and now they even have USB record players....

[jim_in_dorris]

I think what you really want is a OBD1 to usb cable. Robert is being modest, he builds and sells one on this forum at a very reasonable price.

[EagleMark]

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1592-Support-The-Forum-Buy-ALDL-Cables!

and helps the more electronic type geeks build them from cheap china parts...

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?719-Uber-easy-DIY-USB-ALDL-Cable

On the home page of ALDL cables it says "If you have an ancient laptop that does not have a USB interface, buy our Serial ALDL Cable"

Just as you would buy 8 tracks if that was the media player you had...

There's tons of parallel cables at thrift stores too! But nothing left to use them on... I even see floppy disks brand new for sale, whens the last time you saw a computer with that?

I remember having one of those cables and when I got a newer laptop used at a garage sale because it was old... it didn't have serial, so I got a converter cable like yours and spent WAY to many hours and bought WAY to many other adapters but did get it to work, I think it was my first windows 98 PC, wish I could remember how, that was so long ago, before gray hair! :innocent2:

From the prices of USB to serial adapters with FTDI chip your almost at buying price of a new USB cable.

Buy a cable and get on with life and your car! Sell the old serial one on eBay as a very rare antique collectible Tuner cable!

[RobertISaar]

i went and reread this thread....

since you already have the ALDL to RS232 cable, you'll want a USB to RS232 adapter that uses a FT232R chip to do that conversion. the first one that comes to mind that i know works is the Parallax 28030/28031, i used quite a few of those with excellent results before i jumped up to USB to TTL/UART converters.

note that the 28030/28031 is just the populated board, there is no enclosure of any kind. i think the cheapest source i ever found was directly from parallax.

as far as something that is mostly essentially self-contained, there is this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-FTDI-FT232RL-FT232BL-RS232-Serial-DB9-Converter-Cable-Win7-64-Mac-/370761532032?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA% 252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D151033 109463%26ps%3D54

it looks to be what you're looking for.

[Six_Shooter]

what is MAX 232 -- this is the first it has been brought up.... I thought you said 'FT232' -- how does that differ from RS232?
I posted the links at the beginning of the thread -- the aldl cable I have was the standard when laptops still had serial ports. It was specifically made to use with OBD1 -- I find it difficult to believe it is such a rare bird now (and they still sell it brand new) since usb has become so popular .....that was the cable 'they' all said to use at the time --- how can it be it is so difficult to make that data enter into a newer computer -- they all still use windows, and they all still only understand 1's and 0's --- and it's STILL the same stream of data it was 14 years ago..... today's computers still understand touchtone phone sounds.... those have been around since the 70's .....and now they even have USB record players....

The problem is not the ALDL cable, or even necessarily the USB to serial cable, it's the way Windoze enumerates the port, and sets com speed (baud rates). The PC is looking for a certain rate of data exchange. With the non-standard buad rate of the GM ECM, trying to communicate with the USB to serial converter, sometimes packets get missed in either direction, and a loss of communication happens.

The only way to almost guarantee that the ALDL cable you have works is usually to buy a very expensive USB to serial adapter, which will be almost as much if not as much as buying a new USB ALDL cable.

There are other ways, as Robert is suggesting, to find specific converter chips, that you may be able to find at cheaper prices, but then you still have extra connections, as in the adapters, the power port plug, etc.

I am also part of the group that tried to make a serial ALDL cable work with a USB converter, without success. I made a MAX232 based ALDL cable years ago, that works with any native serial connection, in fact I still use it frequently with my test bench, since my desktop PCs have had native serial connections for a while now, or through the use of a PCI serial card. I gave up pretty quickly, and just bought the moates ALDL Xtreme about 8 years ago, and have never had an issue with it. I have used it on MANY cars over the years without issue, at least no issues that weren't user created. ;)

[greggbruceauto]

I think what you really want is a OBD1 to usb cable. Robert is being modest, he builds and sells one on this forum at a very reasonable price.
yeah, asked him -- says he is waiting on parts

[greggbruceauto]

From the prices of USB to serial adapters with FTDI chip your almost at buying price of a new USB cable.

Buy a cable and get on with life and your car! Sell the old serial one on eBay as a very rare antique collectible Tuner cable!

That's the direction I'm leaning towards now.....

[greggbruceauto]

:rockon:A BIG thank you to




http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-FTDI-FT232RL-FT232BL-RS232-Serial-DB9-Converter-Cable-Win7-64-Mac-/370761532032?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA% 252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D151033 109463%26ps%3D54

it looks to be what you're looking for.:jfj::jfj::jfj::jfj:
for that link, I got it in the mail yesterday, and finally after figuring out the 12v cig lighter adapter on the cable has to be plugged in, and the 10k jumper has to be set, I FINALLY got a datastream !!! Without the 10k, it gets data, but all the values cycle from min to max over and over, and it gets errors, and sometimes the "DA Connected" turns red....

I just captured about 15 second stream in the driveway, I'm going to open it up and fiddle through it, and then get a whole trip (30 min or so) this weekend maybe...

Looks like I'm on to the next steps...

Thanks again to all for the help -- I know this is a learning process, I'm glad I have all you teachers out there....

[EagleMark]

:wtg:

Don't think you ever told us what ECM/vehicle/mask? But some just need 10K to start data flow...

[greggbruceauto]

:wtg:

Don't think you ever told us what ECM/vehicle/mask? But some just need 10K to start data flow...

sorry, it's a $6E, 1227165 89 F body TPI

[EagleMark]

Pretty sure that is just 10k to start.

Also beware that ECM is known for loosing a connection... :mad1:

[greggbruceauto]

Pretty sure that is just 10k to start.

Also beware that ECM is known for loosing a connection... :mad1:

yeah, I think I noticed that, every few seconds or so all the data would max/min out --- you can see it in graph mode....

I just hope it's not going to be the case from now on...

this car is for my non -gear head middle son, as long as it drives, he don't care.

If it was a car of my own I was going to keep and continue to modify, it looks like from your response, I would look at changing to something different?