$85 7060 "Choke AFR Enrichment at startup"

[1BadAction]

Table looks like as follows under the AFR section.

5.50
5.20
4.80
4.50
4.00
3.00
3.00
3.00
3.00
2.50
2.00
2.00
2.00
2.00
2.00
2.00
2.00

My question is, is this a percentage or AFR point added to the fueling? Target AFR? or something else? My goal is to get a little less fuel during a warm or cold start. Right now it is so rich, it's fouling plugs at a warm or cold startup.

[EagleMark]

The choke is usually short term... I looked at the $85 HAC_BAMW.src and found Open Loop AFR and this adder which may be the issue?

;---------------------------------------------
; OPEN LOOP AFR vs VAC for COLD ENGINE
; AFR = SUM L84C1 + L8484
;
; Dissassemby of BAMW LINES = 9
;
; TBL = 10 * AFR
;---------------------------------------------
ORG $0484 ;
L8484 FCB 8 ; 9 LINE TBL
ORG $0485 ; AFR Kpa VAC
;---------------------------------
L8485 FCB 30 ; 3.0 80
L8486 FCB 30 ; 3.0 70
L8487 FCB 30 ; 3.0 60
L8488 FCB 30 ; 3.0 50
L8489 FCB 25 ; 2.5 40
L848A FCB 25 ; 2.5 30
L848B FCB 20 ; 2.0 20
L848C FCB 10 ; 1.0 10
L848D FCB 0 ; 0.0 0
;---------------------------------------------


Remember everything is an adjustment off VE tables, so this may fix the issue at hand it may come back to bite you in the butt.

[1BadAction]

Remember everything is an adjustment off VE tables, so this may fix the issue at hand it may come back to bite you in the butt.

This is what I'm grappling with. Should I mess with this now to temp fix it, or wait until I get the VE hammered out? I can't imagine the VE is that far off because once it was warm and idling it seemed to be ok (only a little rich) in open loop but I suppose I could be wrong. Here's my BIN file, I've tweaked the VE in the idle areas just a hair because this is just to get me started up and logging... without killing my fresh engine in raw fuel.

[EagleMark]

You know all Axxx.bin were superceeded to Bxxx.bin? AWAW is now BAMT.

I don't know this mask well enough, I've only had a couple of these trucks hands on one day each, but when I do this I'm emulating so changes can be quick, I'd lean out one table for now
"Open Loop Air Fuel Ratio Vs. Coolant Temp."

When warm your probably Closed Loop and getting fueling correction is why it's better.

What's the cam specs @.050 ? What is MAP when this is happening? I see you had Idle up a bit, depending on cam it may need a lot less VE at idle and some more spark.

[1BadAction]

You know all Axxx.bin were superceeded to Bxxx.bin? AWAW is now BAMT.

I don't know this mask well enough, I've only had a couple of these trucks hands on one day each, but when I do this I'm emulating so changes can be quick, I'd lean out one table for now
"Open Loop Air Fuel Ratio Vs. Coolant Temp."

When warm your probably Closed Loop and getting fueling correction is why it's better.

What's the cam specs @.050 ? What is MAP when this is happening? I see you had Idle up a bit, depending on cam it may need a lot less VE at idle and some more spark.

OK, I'll use the BAMT. Had no idea the original was superceeded, thanks for letting me know I'd rather work from the latest. My truck has AWAW in it stock, so it's what I went with. I will be Emulating/RTT also with the APU1 and associated hardware. In the tune I bumped up the idle timing areas 4 degrees and smoothed them into the stock table, along with the increased idle. I think this thing will end up idling nicely at stock RPM but I'll work my way down...

Here is the cam card from comp cams. It's pretty mild.

http://imageshack.us/a/img29/9589/capturekua.jpg

[1BadAction]

Kpa was 60 if I recall correctly but I was just looking at it through a solus scan tool, I didn't have my computer or software to log anything. First fire was with the chip dead stock just to get a feel for it before I came back home. Friday and this weekend I'll have my logging/tuning equipment so I will know more for sure then.

[EagleMark]

60 MAP is a horrible idle. But it looks like you did get an extra 4 degrees timing in that area and through smoothing the VE got a little less fuel... but idle does look stock, add 100-150 RPM till you get to work on tune, this will bring MAP way down in VE table to way less fuel. Should be able to get that cam to idle nice at 800 with some work.

Base timing in this mask is 3.87 at distributor.

[chevmasta]

I've recently tuned my virtually stock 454....way better than before with this 7060 $85

I can actually do a burnout with my 33" tall tires! Never before could it even think of doing a burnout on the stock bin.

attached is my current bin on a stock truck other than jba headers and 16psi of fuel pressure. You can see what I've changed vs my stock banc.bin
mine has a 4l80e transmission

[chevmasta]

I had way better luck removing VE from the high map 400rpm tables than I did with the choke afr enrichment at startup table.

I chased a small puff of black smoke (probably due to the increase in fuel pressure) for awhile. Reducing the VE table caused it to go away.

Your truck should have some really good torque with that cam and compression ratio!

I'm excited to see someone else using this PCM

[1BadAction]

Thank you Mark, I was surprised to see the timing at 3.87 degrees base instead of the normal zero, but that jives perfectly with the timing procedure in the alldata manual, which is what we used. Tons of new info to chew on here, should be a productive few days of tuning.


I had way better luck removing VE from the high map 400rpm tables than I did with the choke afr enrichment at startup table.

I chased a small puff of black smoke (probably due to the increase in fuel pressure) for awhile. Reducing the VE table caused it to go away.

Your truck should have some really good torque with that cam and compression ratio!

I'm excited to see someone else using this PCM

Thanks for the bins! I'll take a look and compare them to my current BAMT, it should help me pinpoint what needs to be changed a bit faster. Sounds like you have a similar ride. My burb also has the 80E, which will be something else to tune but I already have a lot of experience in that aspect. I'm mainly aiming to get it drivable this weekend so I can bring it home, then I can really spend some time with it.

Tq is what I was aiming for, even as it sits it feels very powerful off-idle. 3.73 rear doesn't hurt any in that respect either. :rockon: I'll be sure to keep every one posted

[EagleMark]

It's an excellent PCM and came in some very cool trucks. Problem is just a couple years... and most of those trucks survived or were used commercially, wore out and died, so not a lot of conversions. I've been seeing more of them pop up recently for tuning help. In the 4x4 the trans and transfer case is a sought after unit.

[chevmasta]

Thank you Mark, I was surprised to see the timing at 3.87 degrees base instead of the normal zero, but that jives perfectly with the timing procedure in the alldata manual, which is what we used. Tons of new info to chew on here, should be a productive few days of tuning.



Thanks for the bins! I'll take a look and compare them to my current BAMT, it should help me pinpoint what needs to be changed a bit faster. Sounds like you have a similar ride. My burb also has the 80E, which will be something else to tune but I already have a lot of experience in that aspect. I'm mainly aiming to get it drivable this weekend so I can bring it home, then I can really spend some time with it.

Tq is what I was aiming for, even as it sits it feels very powerful off-idle. 3.73 rear doesn't hurt any in that respect either. :rockon: I'll be sure to keep every one posted


Yeah in my bin above it has alters transmission shift points!
I paid TBIChips for a "towmaster" bin and it didn't work at all for my truck....detonated so much the KS started over after 255 counts!
So I bought everything to tune it myself. I bought the HDR1 to read his bin and then I copied all his trans parameters he changed over to my bin. I really liked the way the trans shifted with his bin. This is the bin I use as my "tow/haul" mode :)
I have changed some of the values in the shift "time vs tps" because I have a transgo shift kit and it shifted way too hard in second gear with the TBIChips tables.

My other bins don't have the trans parameters....they are stock. So I switch to them with my Moates EX switch when the truck is unloaded.

I also have a high idle map that I can switch to when using my winch.

Dont worry, I Velcro'd the switch tight. lol

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/modaddict/dash.jpg

[chevmasta]

Just as an FYI, I'm not done with the VE map with that bin. You'll see it's maxxed out up top. Even as it's maxxed out I was only seeing about a 132 on the BLM with those 99.x values. So I'm really close!

I need to change BPC to 150 and re-tune the VE map and see where that leaves me up top.

[1BadAction]

Your truck must be a 92? My 80E I think was a dealer replacement, they had issues with them the first year and replaced, or paid to replace quite a few. I still have the notices with my window sticker and dealer paperwork. I'm very picky about my auto trans tunes, usually that is where I spend a good 70% of the time working with them. I might end up going with the EX switch myself. I take it that you like it?

I too was going to try TBIChips as a baseline but decided to just say screw it and got everything I needed right off the bat. I've done it with EFILive in more than a few LSx vehicles, the APU1, G1, HDR, Tunerpro, etc is a bargain compared to what I'm used to. There is a slight learning curve compared to what I'm used to but I always like to learn new stuff.

[1BadAction]

I may even be able to rock the patina... Seems like the lazy way out though. :D

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/3091/2012021715314967.jpg

[EagleMark]

Well you dodged a bullet there as chevmasta found out. I think he put a 454 SS Spark advance table in it, didn't work well with a cabover camper towing a trailer. The last TBIchip.com truck I fixed, beside never ran right, had a 1994 trans bin in a 1995 Trans. The TCC is PWM and completely different in 1995. His truck runs fine now and he is having his brand new transmission inspected because the TCC issues that developed.

Here's some recent threads on TBI-Disaster-chips.com

Here's some recent TBIChips.com threads.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...50-vortec-swap

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...-proram-issues

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...ble-truck-soon

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/g...chips-com.html

[1BadAction]

Just as an FYI, I'm not done with the VE map with that bin. You'll see it's maxxed out up top. Even as it's maxxed out I was only seeing about a 132 on the BLM with those 99.x values. So I'm really close!

I need to change BPC to 150 and re-tune the VE map and see where that leaves me up top.

Which BPW calculator are you using? Can you post it here? Ordering a 16PSI spring now, should put me up around 92 lb/hr

[Nasty-Z]

Ordering a 16PSI spring now, should put me up around 92 lb/hr

Might consider going external with the regulator , much easier to adjust and if you don't already have the capibility it does Vaccum reference . That cam will tend to idle a tad on the rich side with your combo .

4415


P/N 13107 Aeromotive .

Good to see you over here and glad its up and running :rockon:

TOM

[1BadAction]

I take it you gut the factory FPR and add that inline?

[EagleMark]

Which BPW calculator are you using? Can you post it here? Ordering a 16PSI spring now, should put me up around 92 lb/hrHere's the GearHead-EFI.com version of a Calculator!

Open Office and MS Excel

[Nasty-Z]

I take it you gut the factory FPR and add that inline?

Yessir , Use an old regulator diagaphram , cut the center out of it and fashon a plate to block off the factory unit .

I also "mod" the fuel passages slightly in the hosuing itself , but thats another story .......

Good luck with the project .

TOM

[1BadAction]

Here's the GearHead-EFI.com version of a Calculator!

Open Office and MS Excel
This. Is. AWESOME.


One question. Can I duplicate the $OD wideband tab, lop off the 5200 to 6400rpm tables and use it for the wideband correction in my $85? Is the math the same?

[EagleMark]

If the RPM and MAP are lined up the same? Just use it without extra RPM. It's set for Lambda, not AFR.

[chevmasta]

Your truck must be a 92? My 80E I think was a dealer replacement, they had issues with them the first year and replaced, or paid to replace quite a few. I still have the notices with my window sticker and dealer paperwork. I'm very picky about my auto trans tunes, usually that is where I spend a good 70% of the time working with them. I might end up going with the EX switch myself. I take it that you like it?

I too was going to try TBIChips as a baseline but decided to just say screw it and got everything I needed right off the bat. I've done it with EFILive in more than a few LSx vehicles, the APU1, G1, HDR, Tunerpro, etc is a bargain compared to what I'm used to. There is a slight learning curve compared to what I'm used to but I always like to learn new stuff.

My truck is a 93. I think a real early build 93. The trans has been rebuilt 2x with 216k on the truck. One time the rear output shaft seal went out, puked all the fluid into the t-case and smoked the tranny (the last time). an external cooler was added and my dad (who had the truck before me) hasn't had a problem since.
I've always fought trans cooling issues. I had it at 240* once and several times at 235* when towing my camper/jeep or boat. From hot temps 100+ to 40*.
I even have the derale deep trans pan with the cooling tubes that adds 4 qts to the system.
The fix?
I just installed the long tru-cool 40,000 GVW cooler and took the lines out of the radiator too. So the lines are run just trans to cooler and back.
I also found the electric fan up front wasn't working. So I replaced it and wired it to a switch instead of the factory coolant switch at 225*.

All I wanted from my trans tune was to lean on the convertor a bit, and have it shift later in each gear. The transgo kit took care of the hydraulic problems in the trans and added the shift firmness and pressures it needs.

I would definitely recommend the G3 adapter, Ex switch and f090 chips. Gives you the ability to have 16 maps...although for me, probably 4 will get used at the most.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/modaddict/image.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/modaddict/grillfan.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/modaddict/photo4.jpg

[chevmasta]

Well you dodged a bullet there as chevmasta found out. I think he put a 454 SS Spark advance table in it, didn't work well with a cabover camper towing a trailer. The last TBIchip.com truck I fixed, beside never ran right, had a 1994 trans bin in a 1995 Trans. The TCC is PWM and completely different in 1995. His truck runs fine now and he is having his brand new transmission inspected because the TCC issues that developed.

Here's some recent threads on TBI-Disaster-chips.com

Here's some recent TBIChips.com threads.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...50-vortec-swap

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...-proram-issues

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...ble-truck-soon

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/g...chips-com.html


Yes, as I've posted before the TBIChips spark map for his 'towmaster' chip was nearly identical to the 454SS map (454SS has our same engine). But it hated my truck. Hated that map. He did add a LITTLE fuel but my truck has wanted WAY more fuel than the OEM bin.

I have his bin file.

I'm not going to rag on him. He has tuned some awesome vehicles. His stuff didn't work for me. And now I've found, donated, and need to donate again.....to this awesome website.


Which BPW calculator are you using? Can you post it here? Ordering a 16PSI spring now, should put me up around 92 lb/hr

Please please please, one thing I've learned is do not trust the BPW/BPC calculation as it has not been entirely figured out yet. EagleMark knows this and we have found out lots of stuff on this over the last month.

The lower the BPW/BPC value the more headroom it has up top for higher RPM's.

The higher the BPW/BPC value the less headroom it has up top for higher RPM's.

Our big blocks spin low rpms relatively. My oil pressure is only 35psi. So I don't go over 3500 rpms generally. For me, this equates to a higher BPW/BPC value (and probably the need for relatively less fuel pressure).

Just keep an eye on your IDC's that is now a new feature in the .adx.

[chevmasta]

One question. Can I duplicate the $OD wideband tab, lop off the 5200 to 6400rpm tables and use it for the wideband correction in my $85? Is the math the same?

If you can duplicate this....can you help me out with this?

I posted this thread because I want to add a wideband into my datalogging:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1642-How-To-0-5V-input-your-wideband-to-datalog-with-TunerPro

LMK if your thoughts above work.

Just as an FYI I'm clueless as to what you were saying above. LOL

[chevmasta]

Which BPW calculator are you using? Can you post it here? Ordering a 16PSI spring now, should put me up around 92 lb/hr

I'm able to get 16psi from the stock spring. I'm getting very close to maxing out the stock adjustment screw.

Your setup will need above 16psi though. Probably around 18-20 would be my guess. I would atleast start off at 18psi.....If you don't start with enough....you know the game. You'll be redoing the VE table again.

What is your maxium RPM you intend to run this at?

[1BadAction]

You're setup is a bit different than mine. I'm not going to have a heavy load on it all the time, usually it's just going to be my boat and it weighs around 2k, trailer and all. Eventually, I'm going to tune the VE from empty up to about 6000lbs with the stock timing and see how much of the table I can cover then go from there, making a heavy load chip and a normal one, similar to what you've done.


I'm able to get 16psi from the stock spring. I'm getting very close to maxing out the stock adjustment screw.

Your setup will need above 16psi though. Probably around 18-20 would be my guess. I would atleast start off at 18psi.....If you don't start with enough....you know the game. You'll be redoing the VE table again.

What is your maxium RPM you intend to run this at?
Do these have an adjustment on them stock? I believe the heavier spring is 16-22psi. My goal for this weekend is to just get it drivable under idle and normal conditions so I can bring it up here with me without it puking raw fuel in my fresh engine. Wouldn't bother me if I need to re-do the VE table once I get it here and install the new parts. If this thing makes the power I think it will, I'll probably end up needing a vac referenced regulator at 18psi base pressure, but that remains to be seen. It's only a guess as to what the compression did to the BSFC of this engine.

I'm thinking a shift at 5200 WOT, but it could be less or a bit more, depending on what the engine wants.

[1BadAction]

Our big blocks spin low rpms relatively. My oil pressure is only 35psi. So I don't go over 3500 rpms generally. For me, this equates to a higher BPW/BPC value (and probably the need for relatively less fuel pressure).

Just keep an eye on your IDC's that is now a new feature in the .adx.

Mine OP is 35psi hot at idle with 10-30 oil, but jumps up past 50 when revved slightly. I will switch to 20w50 synthetic once I pass 10k miles on this build.

[chevmasta]

You're setup is a bit different than mine. I'm not going to have a heavy load on it all the time, usually it's just going to be my boat and it weighs around 2k, trailer and all. Eventually, I'm going to tune the VE from empty up to about 6000lbs with the stock timing and see how much of the table I can cover then go from there, making a heavy load chip and a normal one, similar to what you've done.


Do these have an adjustment on them stock? I believe the heavier spring is 16-22psi. My goal for this weekend is to just get it drivable under idle and normal conditions so I can bring it up here with me without it puking raw fuel in my fresh engine. Wouldn't bother me if I need to re-do the VE table once I get it here and install the new parts. If this thing makes the power I think it will, I'll probably end up needing a vac referenced regulator at 18psi base pressure, but that remains to be seen. It's only a guess as to what the compression did to the BSFC of this engine.

I'm thinking a shift at 5200 WOT, but it could be less or a bit more, depending on what the engine wants.

I modified my pressure regulator using this thread:
http://gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/doc/TBI-AFPR.pdf

But the stock adjustment screw (that was brazed) is just about out of adjustment.


Mine OP is 35psi hot at idle with 10-30 oil, but jumps up past 50 when revved slightly. I will switch to 20w50 synthetic once I pass 10k miles on this build.

I'd love to have that amount of oil pressure so I could have a lil more usable RPM. Right now I just pull the steep hills at 45mph in second gear about 3300-3500 rpm. I have more peddle, more go juice....just not enough oil pressure to make me comfortable.

[chevmasta]

You know all Axxx.bin were superceeded to Bxxx.bin? AWAW is now BAMT.


Mark,
noOB question...
How do you know which bin supersedes to another? I've seen you post this to several people with various bins....

Is it just a matter of the BCC find? How do you correlate each of these superseded bins together?




Back on topic...
Today my truck didn't like itself on hot startup....twice. IDK why.....I can tell it was running rich again on startup. But it does it randomly. I think I still need to remove some more fuel from the VE table on startup.....and/or maybe I have an injector leaking down? Might be a hard one to chase down.

[EagleMark]

I have a few SnapOn books that I double check TunerCat CalData program for bins.

Cold start is a tough one, only get one chance a day to test. Mechanical issues just can't be tuned out without messing something else up. One thing that does affect TBI cold start is throttle blades not open enough. After a drive watch your data, always do idle data at end of log. What are IAC counts? If under 20 your good. If higher it may be cold start and other issues. As TBI wears the blades close. Fuel does not mix with air as well and all air is coming through IAC.

[1BadAction]

Mark, can you tell me if a 7060 ECM with a BDPK EEPROM will be ok to use instead of my AWAW? It is from a 4L80e truck and I'll be using my BAMT bin. Thx.

[EagleMark]

That's a 5.7L Memcal. Not sure how the knock filter will react, there's been lots of discussion but I never saw a clear cut answer. I don't mix stuff like that...

[1BadAction]

That's a 5.7L Memcal. Not sure how the knock filter will react, there's been lots of discussion but I never saw a clear cut answer. I don't mix stuff like that...

Good enough reason for me Mark, thanks. I'll see if I can find an AWAW for a reasonable price.

[EagleMark]

Since your doing the chip part I would use any Memcal for the 7.4L, the knock filter in it will match the knock sensor in motor which matches the engine size.

Three parts of a Memcal, chip, Netres and Knock filter. Netres is easy and the 5.7L would work, CHip you've got covered. Now knock filter?

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we ever came up with clear cut answers on Memcal Knock filters, we do have a list of many. I just don't play games there as it may or may not detect knock properly.