Greetings

[CCFI]

I am new to EFI and the last car I worked on had a carburator and no ECM. I do know something about control systems and all I need right now is datalogging. I am trying to use TuneProRT to get data from a 1989 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight Royale with a 3800 SFI. I think I need $5B2 ADS file for a 1228253 ECM but I can't seem to find one. Does anyone out there have a file that would work for this engine?

Thanks For Your Help,

--CCFI

[RobertISaar]

it looks like you would need the A072 datastream for that car. i don't know if anyone has built a defintion for that yet, i know i haven't.

i can builld you a small "testing" ADS/ADX to see if it will communicate the way GM describes it, if it works well, then building a full stream after that will be easy.

[CCFI]

I would be grateful if you could do that. I do not see a file out there already. What resources do you use to put the file together? I am likely to need others as my project progresses. I am an Engineer and have a computer background but am new to this stuff.

--JL

[RobertISaar]

an old archive named ALDLstuff.zip.... a few years ago, it could be easily found in a lot of locations, including the Moates fileserver. Mark might have it hosted here, but i'm not sure where to start looking for it.

[RobertISaar]

did some digging, found at least one source that's still alive.
ftp://diy-efi.org/pub/gmecm/

[EagleMark]

Thanks Robert! :thumbsup:

Of course we have it! :rolleye:

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/def/

There is a gap in ads files built from .ds files from 69 to 83 so it looks like your 72 was never done.

and...

:welcome:

[CCFI]

Getting that file was a huge help. Unfortunately I made no progress getting datalogging on the engine. I went through many of the files and A156AM seemed to match the description of the car the best (based on the application heading). I can't seem to get TunerProRT to connect. I tested the Moates Xtreme-ALDL and that passes until I plug the cable into the car, then further tests fail. TunerProRT is set to use plug-in, COM5 which matches port/USB configurations. I got data using $5B5 but the data was garbled (speed mis-match, frame shift error or the like). I will look through the rest of the files but I suspect I am stuck for the moment unless the sages of this forum have some guidance.

Thanks!

[CCFI]

Can't find anything I need for this car. Sadly, I have two of them I need to test some equipment with so I have to get this done from scratch. From what I read I need a dissasembly of the ECM prom to build an adequate XDF and ADX file. Can I get an image of my PROM through the ALDL connection or do I need to buy more hardware?

[EagleMark]

A156AM is for ABS

$5B5.xdf is to bin definition to make changes to chip.

Yes you need more equiptment to burn a chip. Remove ECM find memcal get adapter and burner with chips from Moates. If a XDF is not available then read chip, disassemble and make an XDF file, no easy task unless you can reverse engineer Motorola processing languge...

Robert said it looks like A072.ds I looked at that file and I'd rather eat glass that have to make that file! Seriously to be complete it be a weeks work.

What's your goal with this car? If it's just scanning for data a scan tool is way easier...

[RobertISaar]

it's not that bad.... the biggest issue is if other modules are constantly chatting on the dataline. that's where issues might arise. that and the commands for the datastream isn't very clear on the early P4 and GM30 3800s. some claim one method but are actually another, some have no documentation at all.

i'll try and throw together a quick ADS (and ADX) that has just some basic stuff in it(engine running status, RPM, MPH) to see if there is going to be an issue.

[RobertISaar]

here's a simple testing version... has a couple of useful values that you can test against to see if believable data is being spit out. ADS only for the moment, there are plenty of commands to try and get the ECM and BCM to quit transmitting their normal messages, so if you can't get good data, try sending the "disable" commands to clean things up.

[CCFI]

Thanks so much! I will try this file now. I think A156 looks more like what I need, but what's in a name. The A156 file is just a stub too, so it does not get me where I need to be.

I am trying to get engine telemetry before making a change to the fuel system. I expect to have to retune, but that is beyond the scope of my current efforts. I want to see what it looks like before we break it, looking for O2 data, injector timing & other data. My only goal now is to get the car running with our modifications. Fixing will come later, so just need ADX. I am hoping not to spend on burning until after this initial test.

[CCFI]

Works! Collecting basic data at this very moment. Is there a similar ADS file I can use to grab injector and O2 data? I should do it because I may have MANY more to do.

[1project2many]

If this car has a CRT in the dash or automatic HVAC with a digital display then all scan data is available without a scantool.

[CCFI]

LOL!

Remember that AD campaign "This is not your father's Oldsmobile"? This car predates that slogan and is indeed my father's Oldsmobile. No in-dash CRT on this old baby. This car is good for nothing but trips to the supermarket and testing new devices (he he).

I tried adding some counters based on offset values from similar engines but not getting desired information (all 0.0's). I think I need to know more about what the car is spitting back to me. Is it time to buy a shop manual? Haynes has nothing about ECM stuff. Is there any source for what may be in this data stream?

[RobertISaar]

the A072.ds file explains everything that is present in the datstream.

was there any "glitching" of the data? did you have to use the mode 8 commands?

[CCFI]

I did not notice any significant glitching. I saw a couple of RPM values that were odd but they cleared by themselves. I captured ~1600 rows of data and noted only 3 or 4 bad rows.

That is a bummer if there is no more data available than what I see here.

[CCFI]

I see what you mean. Will start parsing the DS to get more.

[RobertISaar]

like i said, that was just a test version, there's a LOT left in the .ds document that didn't get added into the .ADS file. it would probably be smart to make a seperate ADS for both the ECM and BCM.

[CCFI]

I am adding to the ADX file from the DS and want to add th Fuel/Air ratio. How do I handle the conversion information WRT MSB/LSB in TunerPro's editor?

[RobertISaar]

39 FAVAL - TOTAL FUEL AIR VALVE (MSB)
40 FAVAL+1 - TOTAL FUEL AIR VALVE (LSB)
A/F RATIO = 65536 / [40 * (MSB * 256 + LSB)]



i hate these types of equations.... but it's either X/1638.4 or 1638.4/X, i can never remember which. you'll know if it's wrong since it will give some less than 1 AFRs. obviously, 16 bit.

[CCFI]

Still working on extending the ADX file. I noticed that the data goes bad periodically like the ECM is changing modes on me. How do I send commands through TunerPro and is there a reference on ODBI protocol? I have only found ODBII information. Lastly, is there a way I can capture the data to look at it directly? I would like to verify what I am seeing to make sure my ADX is correct.

[RobertISaar]

working with V4 or V5?

there is some decent documentation from GM inside the aldlstuff archive.

looking at raw data.... somewhat difficult, since the ECM will only push out data when it's requested, so that leaves out hyperterminal.

[CCFI]

I am using V5. I will look at the ALDLStuff archive. I attached what I have added to the ADX file you sent. I put in all the Bitmasks, Values that I think are in the stream. I would not mind getting malfunction information as well. Haven't figured out what I want for view or dashboard yet. I want to look at injector timing, duty cycle and associated combustion data. I don't know much about EFI or tuning so I am starting off getting everything until I get oriented. I am just the computer guy in this operation, not yet a gearhead. Thanks for your help!

[EagleMark]

Well you should be a lot of help with stuff like this. We will help with the rest.

Don't worry about dashbords, I installed out collection in your adx file, also added a couple Item Lists and 2 monitors. This will show you the custom abilities of TunerPro to develop and customize these files.

Also look through my $42 adx file for ideas.

Also look here:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?444-Making-History-Tables-in-TunerPro

And here:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?356-Enable-data-Tracing-in-TunerPro-How-To!

[CCFI]

Things are looking good with this file. One thing I need that I can't figure out how to get: Timing of the injector duty cycle. I was reading in Banish's book that the injector pulse ends just before the intake valve opens on SEFI engines. I am going to eventually need to move that timing. That must be controlled but I don't see any counters that indicate where that varies in the DS. Is it reported in the stream or am I out of luck.

[RobertISaar]

it's not reported in the stream... and it's not THAT critical either. if it were, the MPFI/TPI engines wouldn't run at all.

i'm sure it's adjustable in the calibration(in either the normal calibration area or hidden in the algorithm), but AFAIK, no one has bothered to change it.