JET DST aka. Tuner Cats OBD II any good ?

[pmkls1]

I really want to get into some OBD II tuning and want to be able to tune my wife's '00 Grand Prix. I found that EFI Live does not support those controllers and has no plans to so that leaves me with HP Tuners and JET as options. I like what I see with HP Tuners and was gonna go that route, but I have been looking for a good deal to save as much as I can. In the process of looking I have found a couple of the JET tuners that I can get at a discount. Before I go spending that kind of money, I still wanted to get some opinions from people that have used it and possibly HP Tuners as well. I don't see any major limitations of the JET tuner so far, but I know that there's always a good chance for disappointment when you buy an unfamiliar product. Thanks in advance,

Phil

[one92rs]

from reading on ls1tech and performance trucks they don't like it. and it will not datalog. only a few people like it at all. but it is cheaper than hptuners. I have used hptuners and loved it. and there is great support for hptuners on their forum.

[EagleMark]

No data so you need another program. IIRC $150 per license. Very limited programming, no TDF editor like TunerCat OBDII which it was when sold to Jet.

If your accustomed to all TunerPro can do you would be very disappointed in Jet as I was, then sold it without use...

[pmkls1]

Well, I was worried about data since there was no mention of it. I have never been a fan of JET just because they don't give much information on their products. My opinion is if you're not willing to give shoppers clear and adequate descriptions and demonstrations of your product then I'm not willing to give you my business. Anyway, I figured it was too good to be true for me to find such a good deal on new equipment. I found a seller on ebay selling the JET DST tuners for $350 shipped. I guess I'm back to HP Tuners, which I haven't heard anything bad about, but I was just trying to save some $$$$.

[EagleMark]

You can download JET to see what's there, yopu won't like it. But coupled with ScanXL pro and GM enhanced PIDS and cable (about $300) it does all the TunerPRo will do. Still no where close to EFI Live with both in same program.

I went EFI Live becuase of RoadRunner. Still can't figure out the complication of HP credits?

Just recently I tried to use the trial version of HP tuners and can't even get it to install?

[pmkls1]

I was going to download some trial versions to get an idea before I buy anything. I won't go with Efi Live any time soon because the only OBD II vehicle I currently own is my wife's 2000 Grand Prix and they don't support that controler or have any plans to support it.

[one92rs]

credits aren't to bad. 2 credits needed for EACH vehicle tuned. if you want to tune that year model unlimited then you get to the amount of credits needed. example: 1999 fbody gen 3. once you have purchased 6 credits you can tune gen 3 cars for that year. as many as you want. so after purchasing 6 credits at 49.00 each ( each being 2 ) which is 150.00 you can tune as many 1999 gen 3 fbodies as you want to.

[EagleMark]

Yeah but when you have a 2000 PCM and install a 2002 OS (you can't) and flash it into a 1998 vehicle you can't even change the VIN! Another reason I went EFI Live...

[Playtoy_18]

Tunercat and JET are two different versions.
Tunercat is worth every dollar IF you already know what your doing because it will not help,but as a tool it is the most fully featured and no vin licensing.
JET is still fully functional but is vinlocked and you must pay for each tune.

If your gonna do that anyway,and want the easiest possible process to tune with then HPtuners is the way to go really.
The only way to buy TCII now is in a $2500 package (still worth it) or used (expect to pay asking price and jump when you see it.)

I really wish EFILive would support the 3800's,i've asked but they could care less.

[RobertISaar]

i don't have any direct experience with HPT, but i sure do get some interesting things told to me about it/them... enough to where due to them being the only still-existing option for the OBD2 V6 stuff, i don't want to go near it.

[EagleMark]

You can start with TunerCat OBDII RoadRunner cheaper then that if you don't buy all the tdf, but have to buy a RoadRunner. I think it's the only way to buy TC OBDII now? Still get the flash cable and WinFlash, can buy the .tdf seperate.

I like my TunerCat OBDII, no licences per PCM!

[pmkls1]

I downloaded the trial version of HP Tuners and it appears to be pretty decent so far. I see all the features I was looking for. For what I'm needing for now there's no way I'm going to drop more than $500 on a tuner.

[Lextech]

I don't own nor have never used HPTuners. I do have a copy of it loaded on my laptop---But I don't have the cable/box. At the time I did the 0411 and twin turbo install on my 98 GMC, HPTuners didn't have a Custom Operating System (COS) for the 2002 Express Van calibration. I purchased a used Tunercat that came with a broken screened laptop for $350.00 just because I wanted it. Even though I was a GIANT Newb, I still knew TC wouldn't work for my truck. I just bought it because I wanted it. That is probably to this day the best purchase of anything that I have ever bought. (Back to the COS) I purchased EFILIve and am VERY happy with it. All 3 tuning suites are awesome. Each one can do a few things that the other ones can't. Most of the stuff that I ever mess with is retro-fitted hotrod truck stuff. Where I live (Cook County Ill.) we have to pass emissions. That means the VIN has to be in the PCM. HPTuners software requires the year of the Operating system and VIN to match. HPTuners VIN protocol just won't work for me. Tunercat and EFILive don't care what VIN is in the PCM.
I can also do segment swaps with T/C or EFIlive in about 10 seconds. With HPTuners software, you must e-mail your current tune and a tune with the segment/segments that you want swapped to HPTuners and they do the swap and e-mail back the tune.

Jeff

[1project2many]

There's always this option:
http://www.tunercat.com/obd2/dealerkit.html

This allows uploading / downloading of flash calibrations. After you've got the cal you'll still need a way to tune it. If you can find a TP definition file then the tuning's covered with TP. Plus the reflash tool allows reading / writing everything TC supports. If you can find an older trial version of HPT that saves files in binary mode you'll have a way to tune all sorts of OBDII vehicles for just the cost of the reflash software.

There are some V6 specific tools out there as well. One was popular on the GAGT forum. Maybe I have a copy of that software somewhere? I'm using a freeware scanner called UVScan. There are others. UVScan allows you to define your own PIDs although so far I haven't had the time to play with that. I tried using the version of mxscan available from Moates' site. Reading the download page leaves me with the impression that it should be fully functional. In my case it won't connect and I'm not really interested in pursuing it.

[mekkis]

Yeah but when you have a 2000 PCM and install a 2002 OS (you can't) and flash it into a 1998 vehicle you can't even change the VIN!

I'm not terribly up on the OS rewrites with HP Tuners, although I have one I use TunerCATS 98% of the time, but you can change VIN through HP Tuners with impunity. Using HP you can connect to most GM vehicles and change the VIN without licensing the PCM, in fact. What HP and EFI lock to is the internal VCM ID number, which is not editable by any readily available software. If you lift the chip and read it out, VCM ID is a handful of bytes after the VIN in the binary itself.

I've been meaning to pick up an EFI Live unit so I'm not hit over the head with OS upgrades like HP does, and for eventual diesel use.

[EagleMark]

EFI Live licenses to VCM ID so you can change OS or year or VIN? What I was told on HP TUner is it's license is to Year Make Model, this way you can get unlimited for that Year Make Model with three 2 credit tunes and they accumulate, or just buy 6. VIN would have to match Year Make Model.

[mekkis]

You are very likely correct in that regard, I have no experience using HP Tuners on that level. I only use it for 2/3 bar OS, E40 PCMs, and Cobalts. The actual licensing procedure for single license stuff is VCM ID, however it makes sense that there are OS and VIN restrictions to limit certain "streams" that haven't been purchased.

[RobertISaar]

There's always this option:
http://www.tunercat.com/obd2/dealerkit.html

This allows uploading / downloading of flash calibrations. After you've got the cal you'll still need a way to tune it. If you can find a TP definition file then the tuning's covered with TP. Plus the reflash tool allows reading / writing everything TC supports. If you can find an older trial version of HPT that saves files in binary mode you'll have a way to tune all sorts of OBDII vehicles for just the cost of the reflash software.

There are some V6 specific tools out there as well. One was popular on the GAGT forum. Maybe I have a copy of that software somewhere? I'm using a freeware scanner called UVScan. There are others. UVScan allows you to define your own PIDs although so far I haven't had the time to play with that. I tried using the version of mxscan available from Moates' site. Reading the download page leaves me with the impression that it should be fully functional. In my case it won't connect and I'm not really interested in pursuing it.

this is pretty much the only route i'll even consider at this point... as far as V6 specific, tinytuner covers editing the 3100/3400/3800 applications, which covers a lot of the stuff i ever intend to play with.

[pmkls1]

All of those other options still end up costing the same as the HP Tuners setup and don't offer any functions that I need. I've went through the parameters and flags that can be changed and am satisfied with it's capabilities. I'd rather spend the $500 on a single solution and be done. So far, I haven't seen any specific problem with HP Tuners that would lead me to change my mind.

[mekkis]

All of those other options still end up costing the same as the HP Tuners setup and don't offer any functions that I need. I've went through the parameters and flags that can be changed and am satisfied with it's capabilities. I'd rather spend the $500 on a single solution and be done. So far, I haven't seen any specific problem with HP Tuners that would lead me to change my mind.

If you only want to do one car, and it is not one of the LS2+ era ECUs with the matrix math solution in place of the VE table, then you are correct. If you want to do more than one car, ir it is a newer PCM, then HP Tuners is the most expensive and lacks fundamental support that EFI Live has.

[Hog]

You can start with TunerCat OBDII RoadRunner cheaper then that if you don't buy all the tdf, but have to buy a RoadRunner. I think it's the only way to buy TC OBDII now? Still get the flash cable and WinFlash, can buy the .tdf seperate.

I like my TunerCat OBDII, no licences per PCM!
You are right, the only way to buy TC2 new is to buy it with a Roadrunner. Its $1750 for ALL VDF's plus the cost of Roadrunner if you dont get ALL the VDF's(vehicle definition files). TC2 is $505 with 1 VDF plus the cost of Roadrunner. There are 34 VDF's available plus 2 TCM's plus Westers Diesel TC2 VDF's. Sure has grown a lot since 2005 when it had around 6 VDF's.

I agree with Lextech, I am so happy I bough Tunercat OBD2 back in 2005. I got it for $345 new through a FSC group buy. Wester's Garage even sells a TC2 VDF for the Duramax trucks and the 6.5 and 6.5TD. You cant read the diesels though.
VDF's are still $80 and you get John's top notch 100% great customer support. Support up into 2013 now.

Westers Garage still has his GMT product which can tune most GM vehicles from 1996-2013. GMT supports the most GM vehciles out of all the tuning suites. GMT supports all 1996-2007 non CAN vehicles for $4100 and $7300 for all 1996-2012 OBD2 CAN and non-CAN vehicles including all diesel support.
Big bucks, obviously aimed at a tuning shop.

peace
Hog

[roughneck427]

Efilive just supported reading for 1996-2007 v6 3800 must be working on something http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?21534-EFILive-Pre-Release-05

[EagleMark]

No worries, it's not like we are about to enable 3800 tuning in the next release, it's just evaluating interest at this stage. Not even sure if intrest will help? There's been tons of intrest in 98-00 Vortec trucks for many years and still it is missing SO much. I handed them the info on a silver platter and still no intrest...

[Fast355]

Not even sure if intrest will help? There's been tons of intrest in 98-00 Vortec trucks for many years and still it is missing SO much. I handed them the info on a silver platter and still no intrest...

Well same goes with HP Tuners, there has been interest in the Mopar NGC controllers for years now, they have claimed they have been working on it, even have an example calibration setup in their software download package, still no chrysler tuning......

[mekkis]

Well same goes with HP Tuners, there has been interest in the Mopar NGC controllers for years now, they have claimed they have been working on it, even have an example calibration setup in their software download package, still no chrysler tuning......

... want an .xdf? :p

[pmkls1]

Well, my interest and/or need of an OBD II tuning setup may have just increased a bit. I just bought a '99 GMC Sierra C1500 today equipped with a 4.8 and may be keeping it as my daily driver. If I do keep it then I would definitely want to be able to tune the PCM as the 4.8 would be replaced with a larger and more stout LS engine quickly. This still presents a problem and a question. I still very much want to be able to tune the wife's Grand Prix and there are no plans for EFI Live to support those controllers. So, does anyone know if there is a supported controller that would be compatible with EFI Live and the Grand Prix ? If I could resolve that issue then a new EFI Live system would be on it's way shortly. I still have to inspect and evaluate the truck before deciding to keep it or not. I bought it for $800 because it has some minor body damage and some moderate rust damage, but it does run and drive. I purchased it solely because I knew that I could make a profit from the purchase in one of a few different ways. I really would like to keep it because it would make a good vehicle and I can actually make more money from selling my firebird and my hoard of firebird parts and small block chevy parts. Anyhow, if I could find a way to make it possible to use EFI Live with the Grand Prix that would be a nice solution.

[Playtoy_18]

I saw a post (linked from thread here somewhere) to efilive announcement two weeks ago that said it will support reading 3800's but no promises on tune capability.

*link is 5 post above by Roughneck

[EagleMark]

I saw a post (linked from thread here somewhere) to efilive announcement two weeks ago that said it will support reading 3800's but no promises on tune capability.

*link is 5 post above by Roughneck
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1594-JET-DST-aka.-Tuner-Cats-OBD-II-any-good&p=19801&viewfull=1#post19801

[EagleMark]

Looks like they have some files you can add for V6 now, still not supported in the build. It's an E20 PCM?

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?21584-EFILive-Pre-Release-06&p=185711&viewfull=1#post185711

[pmkls1]

Yeah, they support reading the PCM's right now, but I can't make out if the E20 is for the 3800 or not. They still haven't indicated wether or not they will support tuning them yet. I was kind of under the impression that the PCM's for most of GM vehicles of that era were very similar and that "theoretically" it may be possible to use something like the 411 PCM in the Grand Prix. This is where the OBD II stuff really confuses me about how the software side works. I know that they don't simply have a mask and a bin, but the whole OS thing has me scratching my head right now. To over simplify things, I am assuming that the OS in the new stuff is similar to the mask/code of the good ole days ? If so, then that would leave me asking, assuming that I could use a supported controller in the Grand Prix i.e. a 411 PCM, what OS would need to be used ? Of course, this may all be a moot point if I could not adapt a supported controller fairly easily. I am not looking to make the car a hot rod (at least not yet). I just really want to make some changes to the TCC strategy and shift settings along with a few minor tweaks to improve performance a little. As far as some of the alleged shortcomings of HP Tuners, it appears that some of them may not be true. BUT, I say that based on my limited understanding of OBD II tuning.

[one92rs]

that little 4.8 can be spun up to 6500 rpm's. tuning on it can be made really beneficial. with a 216-220-525-532-114 cam it will run very well. had one. great little engine. that 4.8 mounted in your firebird with that cam and a 2200 stall would run awesome.

[Montecarlodrag]

I have Jet DST, Tunercats I & II and HPT
Jet is the worst tuning package you can buy. There is no support at all, no answer to emails, nothing.
The box can only handle 6 vehicles. It comes with 4 VIN licenses, when all are used you can send the box to Jet to add 2 more, but that's it. If you need to tune more vehicles you need to buy another interface box.

For your needs, HPTuners is your best option.

[EagleMark]

I only had my Jet DST a week and never used it, had no idea it was that bad...

[pmkls1]

I think I had said already that I wasn't a fan of JET products. I forget exactly what caused me to develop the negative feelings, but I just remember that I don't really like the company and won't normally even consider buying any of their products.

[Montecarlodrag]

The product itself is good because is based off Tunercats. However it lacks any kind of support, it's almost impossible to get a response from Jet.

I have received support from HPtuners even on sundays. I have made requests for new vehicles and features and they were always added to a new release in a reasonable period of time. It makes me gladly pay $100 bucks to tune each car.

Tunercats also has a very good customer support, I have emailed several times and got a response every time.

Any product is as good as the support you get with it.

[Hog]

I just downloaded Jet DST last week and it comes with a 2011 5.3 LMG calibration, both the TCM and ECM calibrations to play with. I cant believe how complex these new PCM's are.
Jet has quite a big capability, as its based of TC2, but doesnt hold you hand like others. No support, but if you have to tune and know what needs to be done, it is effective.
So happy I snagged TC2. Support from John is awesome.

peace
Hog

[one92rs]

hp tuners also has a forum in which you can learn and ask questions.

[pmkls1]

I have to say that so far I still haven't seen any problems with HP Tuners for what I am wanting to do. Overall, they support the 3800 and are still $300 cheaper than EFI Live so that makes it fairly attractive to me. For now at least, I am just wanting to be able to make some fairly simple changes to the wife's car and my truck so I am not worried about more advanced stuff like PCM swaps and things of that nature. I think that my mind is fairly made up at this point, but I won't be making any purchases for a little bit while I get the truck in shape and get rid of my piles of stuff for the firebird.

[dayshifter]

Newbie first post... LOL!!

Guys,
Just wondering, I see complaints about JET DST but is not the exact program same as Tunercat OBDII?!? So whenever Tunercat is updated, so is Jet DST...right?!? Other than unlimited licenses for TC, and 6 for Jet, what else is different? Again, just wondering....

DayShifter

[Montecarlodrag]

Newbie first post... LOL!!

Guys,
Just wondering, I see complaints about JET DST but is not the exact program same as Tunercat OBDII?!? So whenever Tunercat is updated, so is Jet DST...right?!? Other than unlimited licenses for TC, and 6 for Jet, what else is different? Again, just wondering....

DayShifter
1- You can't read calibrations without spending a VIN license, the same is true for flashing. If the vehicle is not licensed you can't flash it.
It makes sense not to allow flashing without a license, but read should be allowed for free.

With TC you can read/flash/change vin without restrictions