7747 Highway Mode?

[EagleMark]

I have seen a highway mode patch from a long time ago. First I cn't figure out how to use it and second I am not sure I need it with todays technoligy, mainly software like TunerPro.

Research shows the technoligy for hiway mode is in the 7747 but goverment said no because it ran outside of 14.7 to one AFR

My 2WD Suburban has a 7747 with overdrive trans and I think this would help MPG. Some of the research found articles written back in 2000 that told how it works but cooling pistons could be affected as it runs leaner so hotter and the cooling system just does not have the effect or capibilaty to cool pistons. This is the job of oil. Cooling system handles the cylinder walls. Point is this truck came with from the factory an oil cooler. Nice stacked plate one at that with hydralic fitting lines to adapter at oil cooler. But the transmission came with an old technoligy style finned over tubing type, so I guess GM knew of the technoligy back then but had to use up old stock finned over tubing coolers for the trans while oil got the new tecnoigy stacked plate cooler.

So point in my rant was oil has good cooler to help piston heat when using the hiway mode.

[RobertISaar]

IIRC, the values are not only present, but enabled if you check the right boxes...

however, i believe the point of the patch was to bypass the knock sensor test to allow highway fuel without the test being done?

i'm not too certain though, the C3 ECMs aren't my area of study.

[EagleMark]

Yeah I remember reading that about the patch, that it did away with the Knock Test.

Is this an important issue? Seems to make the motor Knock on purpose is not good. But may be a setting point which would be good?

[RobertISaar]

setting point? we have such different terminology. :laugh:

it's an effective way to test the sensor, but yes, it is a bit concerning. some of the later masks simply check to make sure the knock sensor is floating around 3900 ohms over a certain time period, too much or too little resistance constantly indicates that the sensor or it's circuit is a problem.

GM OBD2 does the same thing IIRC.

[EagleMark]

setting point? we have such different terminology. :laugh:


OK we all know you are more experianced then me, and I am glad I made you laugh! :tounge: I do enjoy making people laugh! :tounge:

But I don't get it? What is correct term? Or how far off am I by discribing it this way? Or why did I make you laugh? :sad:

I know my next post is going to have an :doh: smiley...

[RobertISaar]

Seems to make the motor Knock on purpose is not good. But may be a setting point which would be good?

i'm just not certain of what exactly you're describing here.... "setting point" meaning an adjustable value?

also, more experienced? not likely, it's probably just fresher in my mind.... i am only 22 after all. :wtg:

[EagleMark]

Seems to make the motor Knock on purpose is not good. But may be a setting point which would be good?

i'm just not certain of what exactly you're describing here.... "setting point" meaning an adjustable value?

also, more experienced? not likely, it's probably just fresher in my mind.... i am only 22 after all. :wtg:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

OK you made me laugh! I had bought my first TBI EFI Chevy about the same year you were born!

It was the first year TBI chevy pick up truck and the last and only year the old body style was used for the pick up truck. 1987 Chevy 5.7L OD trans, 2WD short box. Man I wish I still had that! Red too!

Oh, I forgot... :doh:

[EagleMark]

i'm just not certain of what exactly you're describing here.... "setting point" meaning an adjustable value?


Yeah I guess I was describing an adjustable value STARTING POINT! Meaning it would do a knock test and come out with "A" when it checked last time you may have been at a different altitude or using hi test and it checked and started with "B".

Do you happen to know exactly how this knock test works or what it is trying to accomplish?

[RobertISaar]

how it works: when above a certain coolant temp (close to 200*F), and above a certain TPS% and engine speed, the ECM will add up to ~10* of advance in an attempt to cause knock where it "knows" knock should happen consistently if it adds enough advance. it will start at ~2* added, then add another 2*, then keep going until it sees knock, then it will back it all off and filter in knock retard.

now, if it gets to the maximum knock it can add and still no knock, it will either set the trouble code for the knock sensor, or it will set a flag and try again later, i can't remember the specifics of $42. there's a really good post about it on TGO that i haven't been able to find...

if the test passes, it sets a flag indicating that the test has passed and deems the knock sensor good, and then highway fuel is allowed.

or at least that's how it was explained to me a few years ago. i prefer the way it works in $A1: get above a calibrated MPH, then as long as you don't add enough throttle to get into power enrichment, highway fuel is enabled.

EDIT: and of course, the $42 patch bypasses the requirement for the knock sensor tst to have passed to allow highway fuel.

[EagleMark]

Can this patch be done by just changing some hex code? Or is it a computer thing?

[RobertISaar]

of course it's a computer thing. :D

all patches are hex code anyways. if you can find the patch file or anything related to it, i can likely get it working for you.

[EagleMark]

Yup I got the patch downloaded and had read some instructions somewhere else but it was like doing dos and I suck at dos, it's not dos though...

so you can do this to the bin file? That's what I meant by hex, I could probably change hex, maybe... I do php and cgi files all the time in edit pad, like notepad, would that work or do you need a hex editor?

[RobertISaar]

i see... they're S19 files.

not too much of a problem.

there are actually two patches in there.

i can make a quick rundown:

crap, maybe not.... the s19 patch program doesn't like my 64 bit OS...

[EagleMark]

Yeah I know nothing of that type stuff. I also followed directions from another thread and no worky. Maybe it was my 64 bit system?

The 2 patches were removing knock test and enabling hi way mode.

[RobertISaar]

okay.... the actual .s19 files seemed to have hex code in them that gets patched in...

open up tunerpro, get into the hex editor:

make a backup copy of your BIN, go to 0BD5 and start typing:

96 0A 8A 80 97 0A 20 12 C7

that bypasses the knock sensor test....

now go to 0B04:

96 21 81 80 22 05 7F 00 78 20 25 96 78 B1 D0 25 25 1E 96 26 81 AF 22 18 D6 03 CA 02 D7 03 44 CE DB 2B BD FB 49 20 11 A1 A1 A1 9F 9C 9B 9A 9A 9A

and that's the rest of the patch. now, coolant temp is checked against the value found at $B07, if lower, highway fuel is disabled. this is in additon to the checks made for the values found at $025(minimum time with all conditions met before allowing) and $024(minimum MPH to allow) for highway spark. $B19 is then checked to see if MAP is under the maximum limit to allow highways fuel/spark. then your actual highway fuel target AFR table will be found at $B2B, it's 9 values long.

want me to put all of this in an XDF for you?

[EagleMark]

Yeah! that would be awesome! Because if I make the changes in hex, in the bin I wouldn't be able to see them, would I?

So that would be a hi_way-enabled_$42.xdf ?

[RobertISaar]

if you did a BIN compare between a patched and non-patched BIN, it would show up a bunch of non-defined items, except for the coolant temp and MAP limits, since those are adjustable.

call it whatever you want, RBob came up with the patches over a decade ago. :laugh:

[EagleMark]

Working on hex now... how's the xdf? Well stopped working as in ADSU there is no OBO4 or OBD5

Also happened to look through TunerPro V5 and found under file, Patch bin and S record. So maybe it's built in now?

I am going to look for the patch again and see if theres any information as to what bin it will do? Figured if it was for 7747 it would do them all?

[EagleMark]

Found the same patch and unzipped it and inside is a bin file ASDUHW.bin I am doing a compare right now with a stock ASDU.bin I have and so far they are identical except in Scalers the option for Maximum AFR in stock bin was 15.0 AFR and in HW.bin was 16.0 AFR

I'm wondering why there is a patch if the bin file is included? I guess to compare if your 7747 ECM does not have an ASDU.bin to begin with.

I don't know what you can add to $42.xdf?

So far the only things I see here are in Scalars Minimum MPH For Highway Spark and Minimum Time at Correct Conditions for Highway Spark.

Nothing in Flags except Test High Gear in Highway Mode Spark which is not checked in either bin.

In Tables there is a Highway Spark Advance Correction. Both bins are all 0s. This is added to Main Spark Table if in Highway Spark Mode.

So what can you do to a $42.xdf?

[RobertISaar]

which XDF do you want the stuff added to?

and i could even go so far as to include a table that you can copy from an already patched BIN and paste into a new one and have the patch done in seconds.

i tried the BIN patch function in tunerpro last night, but no dice.... TP seems to want the files in a different format, i'm actually going to email MM now to see what's up. it would make my nAst1 project go SO much quicker rather than patching ~20 BINs all manually.

all 7747 BINs should be $42, which should all work with the patch, but if there were algorithm changes over the course of it's life, then that could be an issue.

max AFR being upped is for allowing lean cruise, so makes sense.

min MPH and Min Time also make sense, since they were used for highway spark as well. test high gear in highway spark is a different flag altogether, it's for testing your 4th gear switch.

[EagleMark]

Very cool!!!

$42 is what I need and would be a help to eveyone! Can't think of a more popular mask to do!

Do you think there is more information to be had in the bin for the mask?

[Six_Shooter]

$42 is what I need and would be a help to eveyone! Can't think of a more popular mask to do!?

*cough8Dcough*

Oh excuse me, I had to clear my throat. :P

[RobertISaar]

$42 may be the most popular mask in the C3 realm.... but once the P4 stuff gets added in, there's a LOT of competition.

also, i'm fairly certain there are multiple $42 XDFs running around, just point me to whatever one you use.

[EagleMark]

Or maybe an 8D but I don't know what ECM that goes to... probably a Datson one?

:laugh:

[Six_Shooter]

LOL

$8D is used in the 1227730, in F-bodies.

[EagleMark]

LOL

$8D is used in the 1227730, in F-bodies.
I know! Your Datsun is just trying to grow up to be a Camaro... :yikes:

Is that what you use? The 8D?

[RobertISaar]

8D runs in a 7730, 7727 and their descendants.

considering the amount of work done on them, i'd say more people use 8D than anything else...

[Six_Shooter]

LOL

$8D is used in the 1227730, in F-bodies.
I know! Your Datsun is just trying to grow up to be a Camaro... :yikes:

Is that what you use? The 8D?

No, I use $59.

[EagleMark]

[quote="Six_Shooter":22fqwbsc]LOL

$8D is used in the 1227730, in F-bodies.
I know! Your Datsun is just trying to grow up to be a Camaro... :yikes:

Is that what you use? The 8D?

No, I use $59.[/quote:22fqwbsc] :yikes:

I knew that would blow up in my face...

[EagleMark]

OK so maybe 8D is used more but it has Laen Highway Cruise doen't it? If so then $42 would still be the best one, next one to improve.

[RobertISaar]

lots of masks have highway fuel... 8D included.

but just point me to whatever XDF you use and i'll add in all of the necessary stuff. i'll have to do the edits in TP V4 though, since if i do them in V5, it won't allow V4 users to access the XDF.

[Six_Shooter]

I wasn't suggesting that $8D needed to be improved, just commenting on which mask I think is more popular. :P

My "lean cruise mode" is enabled by how I tune the VE tables, not by using that feature. ;)

[EagleMark]

I have always used the $42. But I know there is a 7747-mine and a jon-prevost $42 floating around. Whatever you see fit!

[EagleMark]

Hows it going Robert?

[RobertISaar]

blah... been busy trying to figure out some nAst1 stuff, mainly single-fire and why it's not working the way i want it to. also been working out the details of my testbench... i completely forgot about this.

[EagleMark]

I just posted up some more pictures of what I did on the test bench. It is all working out better than expected. Take a look and HTH!

I found several xdfs. One is 42 HIWAY.xdf and has a section with highway paremeters. One is 7747 minesort.xdf and has some more neat stuff. The standard $42.xdf has a simplier flags I like.

If you have time could you take the best of all and make us a Advanced_$42_HiWay.xdf ? This would make you a living legend among GearHeads! :scare:

Then I still have to figure the changes in my ASDU.bin I would like to do this as I have a couple HiWay trips coming up and could do some decent datalog and tuning. Going to fill the 40 gallon tank on PayDay. Ouch! :yikes:

[RobertISaar]

just make a note of what parts of the individual XDFs you like and i can port them over. TP V5 actually has a VERY nice copy/paste function that allows you to copy constants/flags/tables from one XDF to another in a couple seconds per item, very much a time saver.

[EagleMark]

OK, since your willing to make me a cool toy, I will cancel my first 7747 to 327 conversion and go through them all! :jfj:

[Six_Shooter]

Robert, if you need someone to test nAst1 let me know, my test bench is now always connected and ready to go.

[EagleMark]

Yeah! What is nAsty again? Do you have a thread?

Anyway I looked through all these and three are pretty decent and have many commented sections on paremeters. If I knew how I would take the $42_HiWay.xdf and just check the other 2 to see if one section has more comments. Someone put a lot of time into these. Wow! Really I have fune with them hooked up on a car! :thumbsup:

Could I learn to do this?

You want to borrow my JimStim for a bit? I don't plan on much inside bench time this summer...

[RobertISaar]

nAst1 is a modified A1 mask, i've already added 400-8400 RPM VE and spark tables, an IAT(or estimated intake runner temp, both are available) based spark correction and various code fixes. i have some big plans in the works though, MAF fueling, 3 BAR MAP support, lots of fun stuff...

i have yet to make a thread though, i keep putting it off for some reason.

if you wanted to directly copy/paste one item to another, just open or more instances of TP V5, press Ctrl + C on one you want to copy, select the instance that has the one you want to add to, select a location and press Ctrl + V, repeat as desired.

also, Chris, you would need to have pretty much every pin filled out on a 16149396 to truly simulate an engine with the next couple revisions of code.... i've been putting off doing I/O stuff since i didn't have a bench to test them on, but since i will soon, that stuff is going to be a necessity.

total cost(for bench stuff only, not including PCM or harness) is looking to be around $20 with shipping.... :mrgreen: i am most pleased.

[Six_Shooter]

Filling every pin is not an issue. ;)

I make new harnesses for my test bench as I need them, though I could probably just add some pins to my '7730/'7749 harness. :)

The only thing I haven't looked into simulating is MAF, mostly because the systems I will use won't use MAF, hopefully that would be selectable in the nAst1 code. ;)

[RobertISaar]

full-time MAF, full-time speed-density, or a combo of both.... technically, there will be some selectable alpha-n stuff as well, but mainly for idle purposes, though the 400-8400 VE and spark tables can both be set to do RPM/TPS lookups instead of RPM/MAP lookups. VERY flexible.

you throw a SRAM module in a 7730/7749? i only have a few free bytes of RAM left with a normal 68HC11, so the 2K add-on module found in the 9396 is going to be a necessity soon.

[Six_Shooter]

I was thinking the 16149396 was a newer '7730.... I just checked and I have the 16149396 ECM. I've been meaning to make a harness for it and the '7727.

I'll take a look at the 16196344 and 16198262 (newer versions of the '7730) to see if they have the extra SRAM. Personally I'd rather have an underdash ECM, since most of the cars I would be working on won't have space for the larger underhood version.

[RobertISaar]

correct, 9396 is updated 7727.

we've been trying to come up with a PCM for the 7730 guys to upgrade to so that they won't have to change connectors, but so far, the only one that has come close is the 1228707, but it may have issues...

[EagleMark]

Hey Robert! :innocent2:

How'd you like to set me upo with what I need to get this highway mode enabled? I've wasted so much time and just don't get it...

I'll attach the Super 7747 ADX everyone has been working on and my stock bin that came in my 1990 Suburban and a XDF... think you could put it togather so I could burn the chip and use the defs to get going?

And how would I add this to other 7747 chips in the future?