new to tuning ls1

[71-nova-lt1]

i have a 00 5.3 with a 4l60e. im wanting to put it in my 68 impala. how can i tune it cheaply
thanks

[Lextech]

If the engine is stock, then just have someone delete what is not needed/used and set the tire and gear size and delete V.A.T.S. in the tune.

Jeff

[EagleMark]

Paying someone for a flash is only cheap route. There is no cheap OBDII tuning option... yet...

[one92rs]

depending on where you are at I know a few people that can get you going on it.

[EagleMark]

If you can't get it done in person call me...

[one92rs]

like eagle mark said in person. tell them you want a street tune.

[mekkis]

like eagle mark said in person. tell them you want a street tune.

Not a fan of street tunes. Dynos are labor saving devices, when you have one the street is what takes longer, and lends liability.

If it's a stock truck engine then disable all the emissions, turn down the PE delay threshold, and maybe lessen the PE enrichment slightly if it has stock exhaust manifolds - we aren't protecting cats anymore.

I wouldn't dyno it unless it had a cam, maybe exhaust. Those things tunes are pretty tight from GM, I've done a number of bone stock trucks and netted a 4-5whp gain that wasn't worth anyone's time or money. You can fiddle airflow modes and O2 switchpoints and pick up some nice mpgs, though, I do that a lot.

[EagleMark]

If the dyno was done right it's a time saving device. The liability of street tuning is a big issue for someone hired. But the dyno tunes I have had to redo, the only thing right was WOT fueling, dam cars weren't worth a $hit to drive on the street or cold start for that matter?

Cat converter overheat protection and torque management can really screw up what's there in a stock tune from a drivability standpoint. Without cats the overheat protection is easily eliminated without any issue. Torque management can really smoke a stock tranny... transplants usually don't have either issue.

A really good test to a dialed in tune is... can it run the same on MAF, in speed density, and without O2 sensor feedback? When everything is hooked up are LTFT just about non existent? If answer to all four are yes? Then your spot on.


You can fiddle airflow modes and O2 switch points and pick up some nice mpgs, though, I do that a lot. I've been playing with these now from tank to tank of fuel and seeing results! Do tell more.

One thing I have tweaked in OBDI systems because of available disassembles is the O2 High and O2 low to tighten up the switch and stabilize AFR/Lambda. They are not in any software I have, just the switch point.

[mekkis]

If the dyno was done right it's a time saving device. The liability of street tuning is a big issue for someone hired. But the dyno tunes I have had to redo, the only thing right was WOT fueling, dam cars weren't worth a $hit to drive on the street or cold start for that matter?

You mean stock VE table, PE raped tunes? I hate that stuff. Tune the VE, tune the MAF, set the PE enrichment correctly. There is a Commanded AFR PID, and when you are done what the ECU commands should be what you get. I can tell someone if their car was tuned correctly by the mpg they get.

Since HP Tuners is marketed to the masses as GM Tuning for Dummies, it's the most prevalent. HP Tuner's manner of dealing with VE on the E-family PCMs - through a glitchy third party utility - leaves a lot to be desired. Most of the tunes on those cars have stock VE coefficient matrix when I pull them. My other favorite is 30 degrees final timing... power picks up when timing is taken out of those tunes.

[EagleMark]

You mean stock VE table, PE raped tunes? .:laugh:

That's the one, seems it's the only adjustment they know how to use... even it's not right when LTFT is so high going into PE or STFT is allowed in open loop as some trucks are...

I found awhile back the commanded AFR is a quick and easy fix for old cars using E fuel... works great in new ones too! Instant and accurate fix of LTFT issues because of fuel change.

[Fast355]

:laugh:

That's the one, seems it's the only adjustment they know how to use... even it's not right when LTFT is so high going into PE or STFT is allowed in open loop as some trucks are...

I found awhile back the commanded AFR is a quick and easy fix for old cars using E fuel... works great in new ones too! Instant and accurate fix of LTFT issues because of fuel change.

LOL I HATE those tunes too and in the old days Harris, Z-Industries, JET, Edelbrock, and Hypertech to name a few were all guilty of it. Compare function on Tunerpro is always useful to have when you have a questionable tune.

ABOUT THE ONLY TUNING I WILL DO IS STREET TUNING.....DYNO TUNES ARE HORRIBLE.....The only way to get it dialed in is get it out on the street and load the engine like normal.

My L31 picked up nearly 20 ft/lbs of torque in places with an accurate tune. The only time it saw a wideband or dyno was after the fact, only to see where it was at and verify gains.

[one92rs]

dyno's are only good to get the WOT tune to peak. and those can be decieveing due to the dyno. been there done that. but for the overall tune only a street tune will fill it all in. part throttle and tranny tunes are only done right on the street.

[mekkis]

ABOUT THE ONLY TUNING I WILL DO IS STREET TUNING.....DYNO TUNES ARE HORRIBLE.....The only way to get it dialed in is get it out on the street and load the engine like normal.

I street tuned for some years, ran someone else's dyno for three years, went back to street tuning for a year, have had my own dyno for four years now. There are lessons that each method has to teach, and both are valuable. However, in your case I'm afraid you're getting the dyno operator/tuner's capability confused with the dyno's capability. Most dyno shops are rich kids with family money playing speed shop, even the ones with some talent often lack the requisite work ethic to learn everything they need to know.




dyno's are only good to get the WOT tune to peak. and those can be decieveing due to the dyno. been there done that. but for the overall tune only a street tune will fill it all in. part throttle and tranny tunes are only done right on the street.

Part throttle is best done on a dyno - I specifically purchased one with an eddy brake to do so, I can read absorbed load at part throttle in real time as well as hold the engine at a fixed speed while manipulating it. Depending on what the vehicle is I can roll it off the dyno with no road test and know it's right, mostly it's being very familiar with the platform but sometimes its the vehicle itself. The newer ECUs, if you tune them correctly, do a lot of the work for you.

I'm with you on dialing in trannies on the street, though. That's how I do them, too.

[one92rs]

i understand what you are saying by holding at one speed. but the street gives a lot more variables imhop. using shift timing and pressure settings to lower the bang on a built tranny. problems with a big cam and going into gear or manuevering around a parking lot upon initial tuning. a 226-228-588-591-114+2 cam was great on a 175 shot in a 5.3. other than being on the gas it was a pain in the rump to get right. i stayed on a dyno and got the jetting and fuel right at WOT and could not have done it otherwise. 2 bottles and several jets later it stayed at 12.01. that took 5 hours of tweaking the engine and tuning. and kept running 28* timing on and off. (yes it can be done ). but for all tranny tunes the street is the only place to me. so i guess in short. WOT on dyno. pecking around and annoyances on the street.

[mekkis]

Steady state loading on a dyno is great to hit the individual cells of a VE map and play with ignition timing, idle stuff not quite so well, but I can still approximate most on/off throttle quirks a big cam has while on the dyno. But the REALLY big cams tend to be a pain.

The best thing in that situation is to not bother fighting the idle, and use the throttle follower like Ford's Dashpot function. It saves a LOT of time. Add in a lot of air across the TF, throw in some TF decay delay, and reduce the TF decay rate so that the air you've added in comes back out slowly. The IAC will act proactively and slow the engine's natural decel down, hold idle a few hundred rpms above target for a second until the TF decay lapses and idle trims kick back in, and then she falls right into target idle with no static.

[EagleMark]

I can only imagine the convience of a load baring dyno and how much time could be saved! Man you'd have good data points to build a fuel map off of. But like mentioned above it's only a tool and only as good as the person using it.

That throttle follower trick works sweet on manual trans, but the first time I used same settings on an Auto it had drivabilty issues at slow speed in traffic and did not idle down quick enough, little tweaking and had it dialed in.

Even if you did the entire tune on a dyno, it stills need some street tune IMO, not just tranny. If it does not start and drive cold or has any other drivibilty issues your only going to find them by driving, starting, stopping, trying to make it stall etc.... Keeping vehicle over night, doing cold start, driving cold etc... bottom line, does it start and run and drive with no issues? OK done!

[mekkis]

Keeping vehicle over night, doing cold start, driving cold etc... bottom line, does it start and run and drive with no issues? OK done!

I offer to do cold startup for everyone as part of the tune, but surprisingly few people every take me up on it. Too impatient. Hondas and DBW Ford I don't have to do that with as I know them well enough or they simply work, but the cable throttle Fords, Chevy, and standalone stuff I'd want cold startup and drivability tuning done if it were my car.

[Fast355]

Steady state loading on a dyno is great to hit the individual cells of a VE map and play with ignition timing, idle stuff not quite so well, but I can still approximate most on/off throttle quirks a big cam has while on the dyno. But the REALLY big cams tend to be a pain.

The best thing in that situation is to not bother fighting the idle, and use the throttle follower like Ford's Dashpot function. It saves a LOT of time. Add in a lot of air across the TF, throw in some TF decay delay, and reduce the TF decay rate so that the air you've added in comes back out slowly. The IAC will act proactively and slow the engine's natural decel down, hold idle a few hundred rpms above target for a second until the TF decay lapses and idle trims kick back in, and then she falls right into target idle with no static.

Much of this can be alleviated on cars that do not have drive by wire. On all my older GM/Chrysler stuff with the base idle adjustment screw, I like to plug off the IAC, and set the idle to a certain RPM. Most big cam cars, I set around 700-800 rpm and command a 750-800 rpm. Set the hot idle about 50 rpm lower than you are commanding. After that the stock IAC settings often can handle the cam just fine. My 4.7 Dakota has crane ground 218/224 @ .050" cams on a 112 LSA. ZERO issues getting them to idle flawlessly despite only having Superchips can program and a Split Second PSC-1 piggyback MAP adjuster. With the newer 08+ flex fuel 4.7 injectors, I was able to put my Innovative LM1 on both banks and dial in the WOT air/fuel ratio across the board. I manipulated the voltage at part-throttle to Zero out the LT fuel trims. Sounds crude, but works surpisingly well.

20-60 FIRST GEAR pull on uphill ramp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1_xHMvoW48

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciDFZahmEUc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LutcPUvgcJk