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EagleMark
01-11-2013, 06:56 AM
This will be a push for TunerPro since all files are community made!

I'm sure more will follow, right now EPA is hitting the diesel tuners so it looks like an effort to avoid legality the software is changing before it hits them. EFI Live is not based in USA, so EPA went after diesel tuners using it.

From the EFI Live forum.

Diesel tuning restrictions for USA customers
As many of you may have heard or read about in the last few days, our next software update will contain restrictions to the available calibrations for diesel engines. More specifically for the LMM and 6.7L Cummins that have a DPF system fitted.
USA based customers will no longer have access to alter the calibrations affecting the operation and diagnostics of these emissions controlling components. For EFILive users outside of the USA this restriction will not apply and you should notice no change in what you can and can't tune. There will not be separate USA and International versions of the software, there will still only be one version for downloading.

We would like to make this thread the official place to ask questions regarding these changes, however, if the questions are nothing more than you venting your dissatisfaction about this then the post will be removed.

Please read THIS (http://www.efilive.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=167&Itemid=158) as a starting point.

Based on the ongoing discussions in this thread, below is a few key items, an FAQ of sorts that you might miss reading through the various pages.



Your existing V2's, Autocals etc will continue to work fine with the current public releases, V7.5.7 Build 211 & V8.2.1 Build 203.
If you update the firmware in the V2/AC to that in the next release it might not work correctly with older software, it's always been this way with each new release anyway.
For any existing tune files you have, the tuning changes will remain untouched, all new tune files created with the next update will not have access to the DPF related functions for USA customers.
It's still your choice if you update or not, we aren't forcing you, we aren't sneaking the restrictions in.
There will only be one version of the EFILive software, there is no secret 'international' version USA users can install.
The restrictions have nothing to do with your registration details on the forum or with your V2 warranty cards.
Sending EFILive staff Emails and PM's asking how to get around this will simply be ignored, no response whatsoever.

pmkls1
01-11-2013, 06:29 PM
I knew that this was only a matter of time. I'm actually surprised that it has taken this long for the epa or some other entity to find a way to crack down on tuning abilities. I think that the acronym EPA really stands for Egomaniacal Peremptory Assholes. Don't get me wrong, I believe that efforts need to be made to protect the environment. It just seems that, just like so many other organizations, the epa is more about politics and hidden agendas than it's intended purpose. I just find it disheartening to see yet another area where our freedoms are being taken from us a little bit at a time. Everyday the government grows bigger and more powerful and slowly progresses toward becoming a fascism instead of a democracy.

1project2many
01-11-2013, 06:36 PM
I was just reading about maintenance and issues with these filters. Tuners are calibrating the vehicle so the customer can remove the Diesel Particulate Filter. Particulates are a very noticeable part of diesel emissions and removing the filter on a stock vehicle makes for a truck with visible exhaust smoke. Bad, bad, bad. Unfortunately the OE strategies for keeping these filters clean may not be effective for some customers without and repair facilities may not know or care about alternative methods to clean them out. Ultimately customers can receive bills up to $5k to replace a plugged or restricted filter so it's no surprise that people want to remove it. In the case of modified diesel vehicles it's almost a given that particulate content is much higher in the exhaust and a typical DPF will not stand for that for very long. There are medium and heavy duty truck repair centers which have special heaters to clean and burn out the DPF. And in the commercial world, Donaldson and others have had systems out for 20 years which run dual DPF's and will automatically switch between filters when restriction gets too high. The plugged filter is then subjected to a cleaning cycle after which it is ready to be put back into service.

dave w
01-11-2013, 07:23 PM
I have been temped to get into Diesel Tuning because of the many inquires I get from Old School EFi advertisements. I don't even advertise that I do diesel tuning, yet the inquires to do diesel tuning keep coming my way. I wonder, if EFI Live knows there is a Vancouver Washington, and would think I was from Vancouver British Columbia like some of the geologically challenged people I meet when I'm just 2 miles south of my home in Portland Oregon?:laugh: EFI Live is a smart group of people, I'm sure they know how to use Google Earth before shipping to Vancouver Ahh?

dave w

EagleMark
01-11-2013, 07:37 PM
I'm wondering if they are going to through these restrictions into the gas world as well with a new update? I've got a duplicate laptop now so when these restrictions come into play it will get no more updates!

That said there is so much missing from the 98-00 Votec it would not matter on that one...

1project2many
01-11-2013, 08:13 PM
I'm actually surprised that it has taken this long for the epa or some other entity to find a way to crack down on tuning abilities.

It hasn't really taken this long. They hit Casper's for O2 simulators in '07.
"Today’s settlement, the first of its kind, requires Casper’s to stop selling electronic devices — known as oxygen sensor simulators or “O2 Sims” — recall the devices, and pay more than $74,000 in civil penalties to the United States. An O2 Sim tricks an automobile engine’s computer into sensing a properly functioning emission control system, even when the catalytic converter is missing or faulty. These “after-market” sensors are considered illegal “defeat devices” under the federal CAA."
http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2007/July/07_enrd_490.html

As for EFILive, is it really EPA crackdown or just threat / fear of potential action that's motivating the change? After all, people have been playing with tuning software since the early '90s and it's been in public view the entire time.

I hope that, as long as the hobbyists generally try and keep the cars cleaner, the enforcers tend to look for specific major violators rather than shut to entire community down. What I'd love to see is an inexpensive program for testing and education so people can get their modified vehicles built and tuned for compliance. For the most part people I know are not interested in turning their cars into gross polluters. Removing access to software will push the hobby backward 30 years.

dave w
01-11-2013, 08:20 PM
I'm wondering if they are going to through these restrictions into the gas world as well with a new update? I've got a duplicate laptop now so when these restrictions come into play it will get no more updates!

That said there is so much missing from the 98-00 Votec it would not matter on that one...

I've been wondering the same about the OBDII gas power vehicles. I'm thinking, because the "cable/software" needed to flash OBDII is already under tight controls, OBDII gas powered vehicles are not going to be in the political "cross hairs" during the current political administration. I'm thinking the "Genie" is already out of the bottle for OBDII gas powered vehicles, and any political action to put the "Genie" back in the bottle would be unrealistic and unenforceable.

Ultimately, if someone really wanted to, the flash chip could be de-soldered from the circuit board and flashed with a new file and re-soldered back to the circuit board. The only real changes enacted by the new Diesel Tuning Restriction as I see it, the skill level needed and compensation required to Diesel Tune just went up. In all practical sense, Diesel Tuning will still continue, similar to the "Speak Easy" days of Alcohol Prohibition.

dave w

EagleMark
01-11-2013, 09:26 PM
As for EFILive, is it really EPA crackdown or just threat / fear of potential action that's motivating the change? After all, people have been playing with tuning software since the early '90s and it's been in public view the entire time.
It's coming their way do to this...

http://www.hsperformance.com/press-release/


EFI Live has just announced it's support of a new http://www.cumminstuningforum.com/ I'm guessing to further itself from the issue?

EagleMark
01-13-2013, 07:28 PM
At least EFI Live has notified everyone this is coming! So far it's just for DPF in diesels and was initiated by EPA because of all the YouTube videos of diesels pumping out black smoke! Besides DPF paremeters it looks like EGR is going to be done as well. Cure is to not upgrade, but next upgrade includes some cool features for diesel tuners like a new custom operating system. How they are going to implement to just USA customers is not being said since upgrade software is the same? Old tunes with mods done are not effected...

But HPTuners did this already and did not notify anyone...

1project2many
01-13-2013, 09:18 PM
I was reading stuff on Sprinter forums (we're getting a new Sprinter this year). Aussie / NZ guy was talking about DPF issues and was very, very cryptic about how to get around them. Maybe protecting a revenue stream? Maybe worried about legal issues? A couple other forums with worldwide participation seemed to show the same results. Diesel guys seem to be aware of something going on, and it's big enough they aren't saying much. The whole world hates black smoke right now. Everything from bad weather to bad economy to local McDonald's screwing up your cheeseburger is getting blamed on climate change and greenhouse gases. True or not, best approach might be to avoid it.

Question of "how" for EFILive is intriguing. I'm not the only one with an interest in finding out but mine's just curiousity. Of course, files will be zipping back and forth across the ocean like crazy once updates prevent changes. Neat idea... install tuning software on remote machine in foreign country and allow remote access software. User can log in, run tuning software, make changes and save. Then D/L changed file back to machine in US. "Nope, no US machine has access to these features."

EagleMark
01-13-2013, 09:29 PM
From what I read EFI Live has it figured out but of course isn't talking. Same software, no difference they say, just won't work in USA? On the other hand it looks like tuners have it figured out and again not talking. This is without emailing files accross country boudries. I think it's in the bootloader, but how would bootloader know where you are?

There's also a calming factor that none of this will happen to LSx PCM... for now I guess...

There is one feature in DVDs I don't understand how it works? Regions? Must be differant DVDs?

Six_Shooter
01-13-2013, 09:34 PM
From what I read FEILive will not be making two separate software packages, so this will not only affect US tuners, but tuners world wide.

1project2many
01-13-2013, 09:53 PM
DVD Region codes have a complimentary system. DVD unit / drive has info for region it's sold or used in. DVD has info for region it can be played in.

Bootloader is software that does initial job of uploading the main program to get teh box working. Kind of like when you install winnows on a new hard drive and Winnows Setup" program starts and runs, and loads a bunch of drivers, &etc. Changing the bootloader is like changing winnows setup.

RobertISaar
01-13-2013, 10:06 PM
does EFILive require you to register your address with them when you buy their software/hardware?

dave w
01-14-2013, 12:43 AM
does EFILive require you to register your address with them when you buy their software/hardware?

I used my credit card to purchase EFI Live, so I'm thinking the billing address or shipping address is available to EFI Live. Maybe an Ebay International seller offering a used "NIB" EFI Live system would be alternate option?

dave w

EagleMark
01-14-2013, 12:45 AM
does EFILive require you to register your address with them when you buy their software/hardware?Yes! But all the downloads are from internet and there will only be one version! This is what puzzles me, but they are very sharp at protecting their stuff.

It's not that anyone isn't happy with EFI Live or software, the blame has to go to EPA and US goverment. They are just trying to stay a step in front of lawsuits...

RobertISaar
01-14-2013, 12:48 AM
well, for instance.....

assuming they store your location in the registration file, they could just check to see what country is selected. if USA, the DPF and EGR stuff would be hidden. it's actually a really simple thing to impliment and could be done while keeping a single unified program.

EDIT: Dave, that MIGHT work.

Six_Shooter
01-15-2013, 09:59 PM
well, for instance.....

assuming they store your location in the registration file, they could just check to see what country is selected. if USA, the DPF and EGR stuff would be hidden. it's actually a really simple thing to impliment and could be done while keeping a single unified program.

EDIT: Dave, that MIGHT work.

But it doesn't matter, since there will be one program, that doesn't allow those changes in any region.

RobertISaar
01-15-2013, 10:06 PM
perhaps i've been interpretting things incorrectly then?

i thought it was "one program, USA tuners won't have access to xxx"...

dave w
01-15-2013, 11:05 PM
But it doesn't matter, since there will be one program, that doesn't allow those changes in any region.

Region Locks are usually imbeded in the Product Firmware. Ever wonder how EU versions of a product can't share consumable supplies with say the Asian version of the same product? Firware in the product can create region locks to prevent bootleg consumable products from working in different parts of the world. I'm thinking EFI Live offers one Firmware version for it's products, so if your current version of EFI Live allow access to certain tuning features, I'm betting updating to newer Firmware would disable tuning features that used to work.

dave w

jim_in_dorris
01-15-2013, 11:24 PM
Actually it's quite simple, your IP address reveals where you are, they could apply the lock in that manner. Even simpler I would think is to look at Windows. Because of export restrictions, the US version of Windows is different than the international version. You could just have a piece of code that looked at which version of Windows is running and make a branch accordingly.

Six_Shooter
01-16-2013, 02:43 AM
perhaps i've been interpretting things incorrectly then?

i thought it was "one program, USA tuners won't have access to xxx"...

I have looked at the link again, that seems to be quite different than what I read previously, and it seems that region specific locks will be enabled, which means that it will not be difficult to get around those restrictions, regardless of how they intend to implement that.

"region specific restrictions will be implemented in future software releases"

The only hitch that could cause issues is if there is a VIN check, that checks against a known value for VINs sold within the USA, that would just make it more difficult to get around.

The issue here is that it affects off road only tuners that have no need, and may actually cause issues with performance to keep those systems enabled in the tune.

EagleMark
01-16-2013, 03:36 AM
Pretty easy to change a VIN before downloading the calibration... to easy for me... so I think EFI Live is smarter then that.

Six_Shooter
01-16-2013, 05:03 AM
Pretty easy to change a VIN before downloading the calibration... to easy for me... so I think EFI Live is smarter then that.

There's a huge issue with that though, when it gets flashed to the PCM, it won't match, and if the E-testing gets to be like it is around here, the VIN as read from the PCM will be part of the pass/fail of the test.

EagleMark
01-16-2013, 08:23 AM
Still can be done. Actually EFI Live made that to easy. The tune tool does not change the VIN, the scan tool does. Scan tool, change VIN, then read with tune tool, make changes and re-flash, connect to scan tool and change VIN back. Unlike TunerCat which changes the VIN in the calibration.

They are high tech, it's got to be in software and location of registered owner. How? I don't know and I don't do diesels so don't care, I also won't upgrade if it ever happens to gas. As it stands now half of what we have and can still find to add is not included. Even if you can find a parameter there is no access to add it. Files are not accessible. It's nothing like TunerPro.

At the rate the LS 0411 is going it won't matter, we will have our next generation PCM soon without the need.

EagleMark
01-24-2013, 07:16 PM
Edge fined $500,000...

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/d0cf6618525a9efb85257359003fb69d/0f84561e0cf2ab7f85257af6006c4dbd!OpenDocument

Six_Shooter
01-24-2013, 07:32 PM
WTF?

Aren't the devices (what ever they may be) sold as off-road use only?

EagleMark
01-24-2013, 08:02 PM
Yeah but this is the EPA, even if they have legal proof they sold them as off road only, EPA is goverment and does not have to follow law! Even our president makes laws without congress, passing executive orders which were not designed for the purpose he abuses them for... since goverment and president has gone on another gun restriction/ban wagon again, gun and ammo sales have gone through the roof. Police departments ammo suppliers are low or out. Remember our second amendment "Right to bare arms" was not for people to own guns for self protection, hunting or target practice. The origanal purpose was for people to be a well armed militia to protect itself from goverment!

Enviormental Protection Agency goes after diesels, but huge factories can pollute on a grand scale without fines?

Our federal goverment is so out of touch with the reality of the people. Congress has an 11% rating. Our real issue is economy and jobs which they do nothing for, and everything against. It's not good times down here. Nothing they do seems to have a plan to fix our future, just sink us further? Majority of people here now are lost sheep and follow blindly...

Quadzilla closed up shop, I guess to avoid lawsuit?

1project2many
01-24-2013, 08:28 PM
“Our goal is to have these illegal devices removed and proper emission controls installed,” said Jared Blumenfeld, EPA’s Regional Administrator for the Pacific Southwest. “Allowing black smoke to billow conspicuously from the tailpipes of diesel pickup trucks is a practice that directly harms public health.”

It's the obvious black smoke that's the driving force. It looks like we've gone back to the 1970's. Don't make 'em look bad and they won't bother looking at all. EPA has apparently taken the position that the manufacturer is responsible for ensuring the end user doesn't use the product illegally which is counter to how the market operates. Maybe it wouldn't stand in court but I'm wondering if companies believe the cost of the fight isn't worth the effort. Notice, both Casper's and this case have targeted relatively small US based manufacturers rather than some of the large overseas copycat companies.

PJG1173
01-25-2013, 02:45 AM
its always the few bad apples that ruin it for the rest of us. Bank's theory is that black smoke on a diesel is wasted energy. look at some of the videos on Bank's website you wont see their high performance, record setting vehicles black smoking everywhere. I have a bully dog tuner on my 2500 and I really have to be hard on the throttle for it to black smoke, and its considered a "dirty tuner" just not as high as edge or quadzilla. I have no DPF or muffler either. we have a group of people in this town that have "black smoke mafia" across their windshields and just bellow smoke at the touch of the throttle. I figured it wouldn't be long before something like this would happen because of people like them...

RobertISaar
01-25-2013, 02:52 AM
well, black smoke is a telltale of a LOT of unburned fuel....(in gas engines anyways, i assume diesel as well? my diesel experience is failing me at the moment)

to some degree it's necessary to keep combustion chamber temps under control when under heavy load, but to the extent that they're going, they're sending a BUNCH of raw fuel out of the exhaust.... idiots. i've seen enough diesels with "smoker" tunes myself. i'm kind of amazed it took this long for the hammer to fall.

JeepsAndGuns
01-25-2013, 03:48 AM
Yea, same for diesel, black smoke is unburnt fuel. Just pouring more fuel to a engine is not goona make it magicly run better unless the engine has been modified to require the extra fuel.
Now diesels are a bit different than gasers. So more fuel can make more power, but there is a cutoff. Basicly when you see smoke, you have too much fuel.

RobertISaar
01-25-2013, 03:50 AM
so, just like gas engines, once you pass a certain air/fuel threshold, the extra fuel actually hurts power due to it more or less quenching the flame?

EagleMark
01-25-2013, 04:32 AM
Watched a SMOKING diesel the other day take off from a traffic light while kids were crossing... they got a soot bath! Just not cool... I'm sure it was done on purpose!

1project2many
01-25-2013, 08:04 AM
Robert, with turbo engines there's an added consideration to choosing the AFR. Higher density exhaust gas does a better job of driving a turbocharger. Even though the efficiency of the engine is down, a too rich mixture is often the driving force behind higher boost as the fuel molecules and particulates are better able to impart heat energy to the turbine.

Diesels have been using EGR for years but because of the high carbon content in diesel exhaust the passages tend to plug in much less time than a gas engine. Today's diesels are extracting more power and heat from a drop of diesel which in turn is requiring the EG to be cooled before being returned to the engine to reduce NOx This increases passage plugging which leads to driveablilty problems.

Particulate filters are simply carbon traps and in order to keep them clean the pcm will run cleaning cycles which cause the engine to run with altered timing and fuel delivery for short durations in order to heat the trap and burn off the carbon. Not only does it waste fuel but it seemingly adds to NOx. But apparently the overall result is a cleaner tailpipe so it's ok. The technology isn't new by any means. Transit buses in California have used it since at least the '80s.

EagleMark
01-25-2013, 08:23 AM
so, just like gas engines, once you pass a certain air/fuel threshold, the extra fuel actually hurts power due to it more or less quenching the flame?I'm not sure about newer computer controlled diesels... but the old mechanical ones did not! More fuel was more power... maybe there was a point that it was wasted but I never saw black smoke... maybe in a gear shift if I floored it but just a little for a second.

I drove a convetional Peterbuilt back in about 1986, it had a 425 Cat engine and extened hood, 13 speed, air ride front and rear, single axle hauling double bottom dumps. The engine was not stock! More fuel = more power! But no smoke? But also produced more heat! The reason the truck was built this way was for effeicency of hauling materials to plants around San Diego, all mountains. I could do 3 to 5 loads a day more then basic stock trucks. Never slowed down on hills and kept up with car traffic. The thing was like driving a Caddy! The only thing I had to watch was EGT or Pyro temps which only got to hot on the longest of hills like when I did go over the mountian which was like 40 miles up it would get to hot and I had to back out and drop a couple gears to keep the turbo and exhaust temps down. Stock diesel engine you could keep your foot to floor all the way, no heat issue, also a lot slower...

1project2many
01-26-2013, 09:39 AM
Just noticed that Cali requires the CVN to be checked against a master list from the manufacturer to ensure it's a valid calibration. Looks like it applies to 2008 and newer vehicles. There's also a story from Massachusetts about determining a HD Chevy truck pcm or cal had been switched from an OBDII compliant to non compliant version by using CVNs.

Now this is a case where I'd love to see an inexpensive program to get your own cal certified. I really feel there are a lot of people who would play by the rules if it were within the reach of the average guy to do so. It looks liek the framework is in place in Cali but are they open to using it or is it just for the big guys who want to pay to play?

(1.1) Certification requires that manufacturers submit emission test data from one or more durability demonstration test vehicles (test vehicles). For applications certified on engine dynamometers, engines may be used instead of vehicles.

We're not the only ones fighting EPA and CARB. I'm viewing the slides from a 2009 SAE presentation by a man from GM who is proposing making smart sensors that can do self diagnostics and minimizing the number of different controllers. The smart sensors cost less so they don't have to be covered by the state mandated emissions warranty, and it reduces the work of keeping track of CVN's.

Six_Shooter
01-27-2013, 09:45 PM
What's "CVN"?

EagleMark
01-27-2013, 10:29 PM
Calibration Verification Number. Kind of like a Prom ID.

This would mean nothing to a calibration taken from a vehicle and changed and flashed back in.

GM has gotten savey to this. Haven't seen but read where dealers can use Tech II or? and check Checksum to match engine cal, trans cal etc... CVN would be the same but each calibration, if changed would have a checksum differant then what is listed in stock cal/CVN.

Checksum change = no warrenty...

New vehicles need to keep there stock PCM and replace it when going for service, this way it matches up and if there is an update you get it and don't have your tuned flashed out. Checking for updated calibration happens even at an oil change.

RobertISaar
01-27-2013, 10:55 PM
..... i don't know how the CVN system works, but every GM OBD2 program that i've disassembled DOES have an option to ignore the calculated checksum... meaning you can leave the checksum at what the factory program is and change whatever you want, just have to have the option enabled.

if the reading device reads the PROM checksum, then this is another workaround. if it is able to request that the ECM perform a checksum test and report back it's results, that could be an issue....

however, i've also seen a LOT of free space in most OBD2 calibrations.... if the tuner were setup to do so, it wouldn't be very difficult to add values into blank areas of the PROM to get the original and new checksums to match. now there's really no method to determine a GM tune from a custom one without pulling the entire BIN and comparing it to a known GM BIN. i don't see this happening, even at a dealer.

PJG1173
01-28-2013, 04:59 AM
even file tune depot isn't sharing modified .tun files anymore...

from thier home page:

"Many of you may be aware of the increased attention that vehicle tuning is receiving from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and California Air Resources Board (CARB).
While it is still legal to tune your vehicle for off-road or race use, it is not legal to do so for road registered vehicles in most US states. The modified tuning section on Tune File Depot has never been very active (only 34 tunes submitted in some 6 years of operation) so we have chosen to remove this section from the Tune File Depot website effective immediately.
It is not clear from these organisations who they consider responsible or accountable for any improper usage. In the recent weeks and months there have been some very large and high profile organisations which have made the bold move of discontinuing sales and distribution of very successful products due to this heightened attention. While Tune File Depot has not produced any of the modified tunes we simply are not prepared to risk being of interest to these agencies. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause our users, but hope that you understand."

1project2many
01-28-2013, 06:50 AM
CalID is the part number assigned to a specific calibration. The CalID doesn't necessarily get changed when a calibration is modified. CVN is a Calibration Verification Number. CVN is intended to be difficult to fool or provide an altered value.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/obdii06/19682clean.pdf
Sections 4.6 to 4.7.4 are applicable.
CalID is required for every variant of control software. Unique CalID required for each software set (data plus software) that varies by one bit. (some exceptions apply)
CalID shall be available through OBDII port
2005 and newer vehicles must be equipped with CVN
CVN verifies software set integrity
CVN is available through OBDII port
CVN shall be capable of verifying if software set and data are valid and applicable for vehicle and CalID
Manufacturers shall request approval of calculation method for CVN. Approval is granted based on complexity of algorithm and difficulty of achieving same CVN with modified values
CVN shall be calculated at least once per driving cycle and stored until CVN is subsequently updated. The stored value shall be made available through OBDII port.
Manufacturers will provide list of CALID and matching CVN that allows for off-board verification that CVN is valid and appropriate.
Also:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/mailouts/msc0623/msc0623.pdf
CalID and CVN will be updated quarterly.
EPA requirements are almost mirrored here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=oyA5vetPObAC&pg=PA298&lpg=PA298&dq=calid+ram+location+cvn+obd&source=bl&ots=qe6cmOuZjO&sig=y3uEsp7ef4xtcOSk16po3dPDpMk&hl=en#v=onepage&q=calid

Other info: CVN is intended to be used for "on the spot" checksum calculation and varification. Somewhere I read that ARB is requesting manufacturers submit location for CVN to be stored for offboard verification as well.

Also note that there are a few other clues that can be used to detect an altered or incorrect calibration. See http://www.vehicletest.state.ma.us/newsletters/11FALL.doc and read the Motorist Assistance Center (MAC) Success Story beginning on p. 4

pmkls1
02-01-2013, 08:31 AM
I've been busy lately and unable to spend much time reading and responding to posts so pardon my absence. (as if anyone actually noticed :laugh:) But hey, once I enter into a dialogue I do like to remain in it for the duration. When it comes to recognizing if a vehicle is US based or not as soon as the VIN info is read the scanner knows that it is a vehicle produced for the US market. From there I'm not sure of specifics, but I'm sure that there would be a few different ways that the calibration could be flagged before you get into the tuning program. But this question has already been addressed anyway.

Once you get into verifying that the current calibration file is valid or not the manufacturers can easily determine that. I do not know the specifics of how, but I know that this is highly monitored by the manufacturers particularly when it comes to diesel trucks. I know that just about any type of warranty engine repair on GM diesel trucks requires a download of the ecm calibration and if I remember correctly you actually have to send it to them. I'm not 100% familiar with the exact protocol because I avoided diesels like the plague. I am trained and certified in diesel repair, but there were a few reasons I didn't want to mess with them. The main reason was because most stalls, including mine, were too small to get most of the bigger trucks all the way in and the roof was low so you could only get them a few feet off the ground and you had to try to crouch and walk under them at the same time. That's getting a little off topic, but yeah the ecm calibrations are watched like a hawk and any claims for repairs that require a copy of the calibration are automatically rejected if it is missing or not stock.

When it comes to the exhaust smoke, I was always under the impression that once you get extreme with power plumes of smoke were normal. Of course, I am referring to "regular" unaltered diesel fuel. I don't know if any of you have ever watched any type of diesel motorsports, but you won't find a diesel that doesn't bellow out the smoke there. I have watched a few diesel tractor pulls and there were specific conversations that the commentators had about the smoke. They had actually explained a little about the smoke and why it would change colors as they spooled the engines up which was a process that took a few seconds. I've also recently seen some exclusive diesel drag racing rand they really made quite a cloud. It is actually so thick that if you were watching from a viewpoint in the pits you couldn't see the cars after they left the line until they were way down the track. It also looked like whoever was behind would have quite a time seeing the track. Of course I do realize that these are dedicated racing engines and they are quite different than a pick up or tractor trailer.

Playtoy_18
02-01-2013, 09:10 AM
I'll be honest and say I don't really follow that EPA stuff but am careful and only do work by word of mouth.
I have to say though,since all the new units sold will be affected by the updated programming from EFILive (and likely JET DST eventually) all I can see is the value on my TCII and Efilive equipment going up :)

Playtoy_18
02-28-2013, 04:19 PM
I was rereading this,and thought of a few things.
As far as non-usa soft/firmware,seems that could be defeated by either sending it to a fellow forum member in canada,europe or Oz and having them update (or order) for you.
If the verification is in the VIN,and the software will recognize then we simply need a VIN database of various vehicles that are not Cali/US compliant.

And while I don't know how it is done,yes the dealer scantool will recognize an aftermarket calibration.
I read the GM memo that I believe eaglemark was talking about,but on Fords I have experienced it firsthand.
It will not only recognize the non-stock calibration but also sends it to Ford engineers for ??
It happened on an SVT focus a kid bought and stripped for autocross.
Can't remember exactly how it went,but iirc the IDS (ford scantool) popped up a window that rejected it and some other stuff.
We were tired of messing with him(dumb kid,stripped interior then put a huge box in back and heavy chrome wheels) so it was just one reason among many to finally void him for constant lean diag/repair.
It was first time I saw it,and I refused warranty work on it due to what I recognized as a nitrous setup that he had obviously uninstalled just for us. As well as cold air intake and other stuff.
Turns out it had been a prob since I got there with lean codes and constant rechecks,I just recognized enough stuff for them to finally say with confidence it ain't their fault.

Since then I always asked my SVT customers if they had aftermarket cals so I wouldn't needlessly void warranty.
We didn't mind aftermarket,unless it was possibly involved in the issue. And then we would attempt to help with warranty anyway depending on customer's attitude.
That kid had a bad attitude,and the kind of customer we didn't need.
In my experience there were two kinds of SVT owners,the ones that think they know everything and were total roosters or the nicest people you meet who take advice or opinion and are just happy to enjoy the car.

EagleMark
02-28-2013, 05:37 PM
There's some box tuners now that when you flash a tune, then flash back to stock... it's not stock! It leaves some code behind and when you read it with EFI Live it crashes into a brick...

T-Rex
03-07-2013, 04:27 AM
Actually it's quite simple, your IP address reveals where you are, they could apply the lock in that manner. Even simpler I would think is to look at Windows. Because of export restrictions, the US version of Windows is different than the international version. You could just have a piece of code that looked at which version of Windows is running and make a branch accordingly.

N version of Windows is readily availible I have a copy. Proxies are not that tough either. Think they made it that easy?