Setting up WB in the ADX editor.

[POZE]

Working on getting the LM2 connected to the AutoProm so I can datalog. I am using 8192 baud ( 165 ECM )
and wondering if the packet offset is 65 and 66 for channel 1?
Also would you normally match the X and Y axis for WB table to the VE table. I other words is there an advantage to making the table larger?
Thanks

[EagleMark]

No advantage to making the table bigger then VE if VE goes as high as your RPM. But like $42 only goes to 3200 in Ve1 so I made it bigger.

What mask ID? Post your ADX.

[POZE]

Thanks

[POZE]

Mark do you see anything that would stop total pulse width from reading?

[POZE]

Sorry I missed a few details.
Bin AWRP mask $94

[EagleMark]

Mark do you see anything that would stop total pulse width from reading?Maybe? Do you have a datalog/XDL file?

I found the ALDL file for it, A139.ds. The total pulse width is actually Total Async Pulse Width so it may not look right. There is also a BPW that is not included in this ADX which is what other ADX files use and can be converted to Injector Duty Cycle.

Robert Saar may be able to clarify this?

I'll help and look at WB stuff tomorrow. There is actually a lot more that could be added to this ADX...

[POZE]

These are the files I have been using. The data log isn't much.

[EagleMark]

That's a really cool data stream in that TBI ADX! What kind of vehicle did it come it?

You had the AutoProm Channel 1 installed right but did not do the PayLoad size or Packet Offset. I fixed them but take a look at this thread for further info:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?829-AutoProm-ADC-Interface-Channels-Set-up-in-TunerPro!

Total Pulse Width is working right, but it is Async, in the data is a Flag for Async so I added it above Async Total fuel, it will come on if Async fuel is used and then show a value in Async Total Fuel.

I also added BPW, with it you can do Injector Duty Cycle, look at $42 ADX, I think that is what you got the AutoProm channels from. It has Injector Duty Cycle Percent Value added and with all this done you can add a MPG History table. Whenever you do an update add a number to version, right now it is V2, so go V3, V3.1 or whatever and we will add it to info thread. No reason to make them better if we don't keep updated ones available.

If you look through ALDL 139.ds file in notepad you can add things. Couple notes, when your looking at Word # they are off by 1 ! I think this is do to hex starting at 0 not 1. So 1 is 0 and 2 is 1 etc...

Also when you get into Word # with 8 bits, numbered 0 to 7. Just type in for Packet Offset in right bow "1" and the hex part will show up correct. Then for Bitwise for 0 to 7 for Operand and Result to test they are:
0 = 0x01
1 = 0x02
2 = 0x04
3 = 0x08
4 = 0x10
5 = 0x20
6 = 0x40
7 = 0x80

That log was all Open Loop although O2 sesnor was ready and vehicle warmed up? Also TCC was Locked on at idle?

Nice work on improving data ADX files! :thumbsup:

[POZE]

I take no credit for any work on the ADX. Used your thread on AutoProm ADC Interface Channels Set Up.
I can tell if an engine is happy or not,but know nothing about binary editing although I want to learn.
Your attachment for the ADX would not connect,it showed a data error. I used 66 for packet offset only because of what I saw on the Channel Set Up Thread. Is that number correct?
This is a conversion on an MG Midget 1.5L using S-10 2.5 parts along with other custom parts.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?681-Best-BIN-for-runing-1.5-L-4-cylinder&highlight=POZE

I also attached the Bin file with the current tune.
You mentioned TCC on at idle Hmm!

[EagleMark]

I remember you now! :happy:

You should take some credit, you did learn to work on ADX files and the more you play the better they get. You added history tables! Open up the values and fill in some info, look at ALDL.ds file and add some missing items. Only problem with it is the XDF, I don't have a disassembly/hack for it, so don't know how to change or add things to it? Like for the BPW in ADX to be accurate it needs an offset of Injector Bias added to the conversion, but no injector bias in XDF. Unless your running out of fuel then no biggy?

I'll see if we can turn off TCC. But also that was Open Loop always log, does it go Closed Loop when driving? It was pig rich at idle by O2 sensor reading, but that might be what that engine needs?

[RobertISaar]

This is a conversion on an MG Midget 1.5L using S-10 2.5 parts along with other custom parts.

all of a sudden, this sounds familiar.

[EagleMark]

Not sure why it is showing TCC Locked? Could be a wiring issue?

In bin/XDF look for "TCC Enable Coolant Temp. Threshold" and raise it to max should keep it off.

[POZE]

I can idle CL and keep BLM around 128 but the idle is not as smooth as 12:1 - 13:1. I was thinking of using OL and tune using WB. I have both sensors in the exhaust a using the LM2.
I changed the Flag for Manual Transmission to not checked (0= TCC ) ???? and the Shift Light - TCC is off on the data list.
I am wondering if there is a better bin and ECM for this application. I was warned by a wise man that $94 hack is not well defined and it might be a problem. Moats screen shared last spring and had no answers on why the AutoProm won't connect. I like testing and learning but now I am wondering if there is a clearly better option.
I started with a hack that Mark Mansur provided me and last year started using the one you offered because it had more info in the parameters.

[POZE]

I tried the TCC enable ct threshold to 150 and had no change. After several different changes thought I should try to change the flag and that worked.
Thanks

[EagleMark]

I can't find any hack for $94, so if you have one post it up and I will put it in the thread.

Manual trans should be Checked. Also the TCC temp enable...

Pretty sure the AutoProm will read now the way it is set up.

[RobertISaar]

i have a basic disassembly for $94 started, but it's not very complete.... probably just datastream provided stuff in it.

[POZE]

Robert you are the wise man that warned me about 165 and $94

[EagleMark]

I wonder where we came up with the last ones that I have no record of?

Here's some ideas for a new starting 2.5 Manual bin.
First 1227165
ACJN
ACJR
ACJT
ACJU
ACKL
APHF
APHP

Now there is a newer ECM number 16156647 with newer dated bins!
AWRK
AWRL
AWRM
AWRN
AYNB
BBYN
CBJX was dated 1997 for 1992 model year!


May be able to find new bin here:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/bin/

[RobertISaar]

Robert you are the wise man that warned me about 165 and $94

yeah, little bits of this build are coming back to me... and i'm reminded of why i don't like the 7165 ECM... too many datastream issues.



Now there is a newer ECM number 16157490 with newer dated bins!

that seems to be a MEMCAL part number.... goes to the 16156647 ECM.

http://www.exatorq.com/ludis_obd1/p4xref.html#16156647

[POZE]

I got the current files from this thread.
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?370-1227165-ECM-Information-94

The current Bin and files are my third to work with.
I am having trouble finding the one from Mark Mansur. That might have been $83a that was for VIN E 2.5. VIN E has the hall effect distributor and did I ever trouble making it work on a pole piece only dizy. I might have flushed it. I f I find it I will be glad to share.

[EagleMark]

Ooops! :rolleye:

I fixed the updated ECM number above to 16156647 for 1227165

May be able to find new bin here:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gearhead-efi/bin/

[POZE]

Don't remember where these came from. This Bin is AUXH.

[EagleMark]

Hey! Wait a minute? I just found a manual bin for $94, wasn't even titled correctly so no one would have found or used it... Took a closer look at yours and I think your bin posted above is corrupt in some way? Some stuff is weird, Prom ID is WAY to long, spark and fuel tables seem to be off at one end?

This is a manual bin, checks as Stock in Bithoist! And correct in BCC Find!

[EagleMark]

Don't remember where these came from. This Bin is AUXH.That's the one! AUXH, not AUXHS...

[POZE]

Not sure how the s was put on the AUXH file. The bin I sent doesn't appear to be corrupt for me. It opens and reads correct PROM ID 3721. Anyway thanks for the known good bin:rockon:
The XDF from you has more definition like Test Tables and Timeout duration possibility 1 and 2. Any idea what those are?

[EagleMark]

Yeah AUXH is good, but your prom ID is 34123.00? To big? Besides other stuff...


The XDF from you has more definition like Test Tables and Timeout duration possibility 1 and 2. Any idea what those are? Not without looking through a hack? Someone was working on it and found something, but at this point we don't know?

[POZE]

I used that bin AUXH and it hasn't ran that good forever. BUT when I first ran it the cooling fan was not enabled in the flags. When I enabled the cooling fan it went back to the major lean hesitation on snap throttle. I tried this several time to verify. Any idea why enabling the cooling fan would cause this?:mad1:
But glad I figured out the hesitation.:jfj:

[EagleMark]

Low voltage! Watch your data. Common issue with conversions and stock altenators...

[POZE]

No. The fan doesn't have to be running it happens all the time. I have spent countless hours trying to tune out the hesitation. It is somewhat better in OL.

[RobertISaar]

perhaps that flag does more than just switching on the ability to run an e-fan?

what location/bit is it? i'll take a look at the disassembly i have going on to see if it's something obvious.

[POZE]

It's location is 2E8
Thanks

[RobertISaar]

which bit of the byte?

[EagleMark]

I think he found a mistake in the XDF!

Just leave it the way it does not effect it for now.

[POZE]

The parameter summary list shows hex n/a. What else can I do to find that info?

[POZE]

Only fan I have.:yikes:

[RobertISaar]

since it's a flag, should be able to edit the flag(press F2) to see which bit it is controlling. or select it and watch the bottom of the screen, should see a "mask" value, that's the representation of the bit.

[EagleMark]

which bit of the byte?0x2E8 bit 4 0x10


Only fan I have.:yikes:See if it works without? It may be wrong?

[RobertISaar]

huh.... that bit is used 9 times in the code.... doesn't appear to effect only fan control capabilities.

what pin is the fan controlled by? i could eliminate all of the other items it modifies and only leave it as fan control.

[POZE]

It did not work w/o the flag set if I understand your question. Also have to adjust the Fan Disable Speed and Fan Enable Speed to 0 MPH to get the fan to operate. I will check the pin location.

[POZE]

C - 1 for the relay control of the fan. That is what pin 87 camaro uses along with the 165 ECM

[RobertISaar]

good, that means i can reference the 6E hack to see what hardware register controls it.

this shouldn't take too long...

[RobertISaar]

looks like 4004, bit 1 is what controls that output.

also, it appears that the "total async pw" value that gets transmitted in the datastream may be wrong... GM goofed the documentation, so what actually gets output there, i have no idea.

upon further inspection.... that bit actually controls whether the ECM thinks you're playing with a 2.5 lumina or a 2.5 S10... so it does certainly control more than just the fan. the W-bodies used electric fans among a few other things that were different compared to the S10. oddly enough, the W-body used the 1227727 ECM, not the 1227165... so this program may or may not work in that as well. weird.

3 of the 9 locations have to deal with the fan programming, so i'll have to disable the other six. does the engine run better with the bit set or cleared?

[POZE]

It runs better with the box not checked. Fan disabled.

[RobertISaar]

okay, hopefully the last thing i'll have to ask:

can you post the exact BIN you're running now, so that i can patch it?

[POZE]

This is the current BIN
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=3399&d=1357076327

[POZE]

It's interesting you mention 2.5 Lumina. Crank sensor in the block attached to the ICM for DIS
Here is a quote from 1project2many from my first thread here.

If you were designing from stage one you could select the 7727 / 7730 ecm and use a calibration from a 91-92 Lumina 2.5 TBI to get an even later generation of ecm but since the 165 is in place I'd probably stick with that.

[RobertISaar]

interesting.... the injector PW(when in async), EGR, CCP and TCC is controlled differently between lumina and S10 modes.... might explain your issues with it on.

anyways, try this out... may want to lower your fan temps to test it quicker.

included the text document of where i modified and what i changed it to.

[POZE]

Thanks Robert.
Might be a day or two until I can test it.

[POZE]

Well I did get to test the patch and I wish there were better news.
The fan works with or w/o the flag checked for fan operation.
It will engage at the proper enable temp but will not shut off at the programmed disable temp.
Also have the terrible throttle hesitation like before with or without the fan flag checked. WB shows way lean during the hesitation.
I listened with a stethoscope and believe it doesn't shift to asynchronous. Hmm

[RobertISaar]

guess i should have done those patches one at a time to figure out which one caused it then....

there are 9 possible culprits, could try starting with just one enabled and keep adding them in until it acts up, if you want to go through that.

[POZE]

I am good with that if you will help. :jfj:The cooling fan control by the ECM was one of the objectives of the build.

[RobertISaar]

actually.... i think an easier path might be to just have the code permanantly think it's in an S10 and just write a new subroutine for the fan output. could definitely be done in less BIN revisions and cannot possibly modify anything that isn't desired to be modified.

planning on using A/C?

[POZE]

No a-c.

[RobertISaar]

want the ability for vehicle speed to turn it off?

or really, anything other than a simple "on at xxx*F, off at xxx*F" setup?

[POZE]

Let's control using on / off temperature sets only.

[RobertISaar]

since it's a discrete output, i can't impliment anything neat like the soft-start code that the 0D guys are using now, but the IAC adjustment for fan coming on should still be functional. once it's implimented, keep that flag on S10 mode.

i'll be working on this tonight... right after i eat something.

[POZE]

Robert what are the chances the problem is in the XDF ? I am going to try another one I have that is not as defined as what we are working with.

[EagleMark]

The one you posted is the same as one I have, Paremeter for Fan enable is also exact.

[POZE]

My mistake.:rolleye: This one has less defined parameters.

[EagleMark]

Fan control is still the same address...

[RobertISaar]

the XDF is likely fine, it's just me trying to change too much at once.

i was up until 6AM fixing our heater, so at least now i have time to work on it.

[POZE]

I did try the other XDF and found no difference.
It was a cold one last night. Hope things are back to normal.

[RobertISaar]

relatively normal... actually hotter then before, turns out some maintenance had been ignored for quite some time, dropping heater output.

now that i finally have enough time to dive into this for the day....

[RobertISaar]

interesting.... when in lumina mode, the code actually supports a second fan(or really anything) output.... but it's only controllable via mode 4 commands.... kind of odd, but whatever.

anyways, there is not very much open space in the BIN left for an elaborate fan control method, so i am reusing some code where possible. i mean, as long as you don't want to impliment a soft-start function or something like it, then it's not an issue, but much beyond that and the BIN would need to be bumped up to a 32KB BIN space.... at which point, you would have a little over 16KB of free space from the 8000-BFFF range.

anyways, leave the flag in the S10 mode, the normal temp on/off settings that already exist are still functional. i didn't mess with the MPH part of it, so just set that to whatever you did before that had it working. the 68/70 settings SHOULD have worked from the start(fan enabled until hitting 70MPH, then disabled until under 68MPH), but i don't have a way of testing it. the IAC compensation for the fan turning on should still be functional, though it looks like those values aren't in the XDF... if you want to add them in yourself, then location 650 is the delay timer, units are in .1 of a second. 61E appears to be the IAC offset when the fan comes on, units in steps.

[POZE]

Have been double checking and trying different settings for a couple hours and I cannot get the fan to operate without setting the fan flag. Then get the engine hesitation.
I checked to see if the fan was triggering on the lumina fan 1 and 2 pins. Those are pin A9 that is diagnostic test terminal on the S-10 and A3 that controls EGR on S-10. EGR pin A3 grounds with key on and A9 is the 5 volts.
Any ideas?
Thanks for all of your efforts.

[RobertISaar]

hmm.... i may attempt to use this on my testbench then.... it's setup for 7727, but the code should execute more or less identically as if it were in it's native ECM.

also, i'm not so certain you can compare 7165 pins with 7727 pins... there's not a lot common between the two, especially connectors.

EDIT: crap.... the final return jump went to the wrong location(was supposed to go to EC3C, i goofed and entered EC3D)... try this BIN, if it doesn't work, it's going on the bench.

[POZE]

I will give it a try.
Thanks

[RobertISaar]

and i want to hear GOOD news this time! :laugh:

[POZE]

No good news:mad1:

[RobertISaar]

okay, been playing with it on the bench for a while.... for some reason, i cannot get it to give me an ALDL stream... load up an A1 BIN and the A1 ADX talks with it just fine, but with the TBI BIN loaded, it won't talk back at all...

i was hoping to get it to stream, but i guess not. maybe the fact that it's in a 7727 derivative as opposed to a 7165 is why?

anyways, i have my BIN switcher setup and when i have the lumina bit enabled, the fan(and SES) is actually always on regardless of where i have coolant dialed in to.... might be going into limp-mode? when in S10 mode, the fan never comes on, SES stays off until i provoke it.

the injection scheme between the two is actually quite noticable on LEDs, the lumina mode seems to fire twice as often?



anyways, seeing how lumina mode seems to put the ECM into a limp-mode of sorts, i'm not 100% certain i'll be able to get this to work accurately on my bench. i may have to dig around more and see if something isn't disabling the output when in S10 mode...

[POZE]

I did notice a change in the idle quality on the latest bin. It had an occasional idle stumble like when the electric fan engages. This is most likely not related to your changes. I was just looking for any type of clues to help. I would hate to go to other than ECM fan control. I would rather change to a different ECM and BIN before doing that.

[RobertISaar]

okay, try this one....

this one works perfectly on my bench in S10 mode with the fan...

oddly enough, when i moved the fan MPH settings around, it seems like those settings aren't coolant temp dependant... even when not "overheating", the fans stayed on below whatever MPH and disabled themselves above the other.... kind of like a clutch fan?

anyways, i want good news this time.

[POZE]

Well.... Um... Hmm. No fan and hesitation is back. Tried MPH settings at 70 off - 68 on 0 MPH on 0 MPH off.
When I set the flag I need to adjust MPHs to 0 to get fan operation. Maybe I should step back and think what could be wrong on my end.
Robert did you get an email I sent?

[POZE]

I am using a MEMCAL from an older S-10 calibration ASWY in the Moats memory adapter. Those engines used a pole piece and Hall effect in the distributor that required an offset. Any possibility that can cause strange problems?

[RobertISaar]

got an email a couple of days ago. that what you're referring to?

with it on my bench, i had the flag off, both MPH thresholds set to 0 and the fan on/off around 90*C on, 80*C off. when the temp rose high enough, they came on, went under, turned off. no idea about hesitation since it's a bench.

perhaps the difference between a 7727 and 7165 is what's causing it to work for me, but not for you?

older MEMCAL should be fine, i doubt much changed on the hardware end. the ignition setup stuff shouldn't be an issue either, not for this.

[EagleMark]

Lumina would have electric fans and pretty sure an S10 would not. This is a weird bin! Also the XDf has a weird VE table and another strange modifier I've never seen.

Remind me what ignition you have now?

[POZE]

The small cap GM with pole piece only no Hall effect . It's modified to fit the MG engine. The dizzy is reverse rotation from the 2.5 S-10. No electric fans on S-10.
What is the strange modifier?
So you survived Stadium Drive in Indy.

[EagleMark]

So you survived Stadium Drive in Indy.You lost me there?


The small cap GM with pole piece only no Hall effect . It's modified to fit the MG engine. The dizzy is reverse rotation from the 2.5 S-10. No electric fans on S-10.
What is the strange modifier?Base Pulse Constant Vs. Vacuum is the paremeter. Along with the shape of VE fueling table, look at it in Graph, never seen anything like either. But maybe it's a V6 thing that Robert is aware of?

Is this the distributor that came with that ECM on the S10 truck? If so that is a CAM sensor, does the Lumina have a CAM sensor? It's just weird if I'm following Robert correctly that turning On/Off the fans changes the entire bin?

[POZE]

There was a VIN A and VIN E 2.5 in the 1991 S-10s. That dist. is used on VIN E 2.5 S-10 engines and doesn't work for VIN A.
I have VIN A components on my engine. The dist. for the VIN A doesn't have the hall effect, only the pole piece. The Lumina is distributor-less that has crank sensor behind the ICM on the side of the block. The lumina uses a magnetic pulse generator type of crank sensor not a hall effect.

I have also wondered about the VE table shape. I have not been able to find a VIN A memcal to copy and see if that is GM stock VE table.
If it is there must be some type of multiplier?

Mark ..I saw a post that mentioned Lincoln Tech (Stadium Drive). Was there in 77.

[RobertISaar]

the BPC vs vacuum was a surprise to me... with well-defined VE tables, it's not really necessary at all.

outside of some OBD2 applications that have IFR vs MAP tables, this is really the first i've seen it that i can remember.

[EagleMark]

I was in Lincoln tech in 1977, but Union NJ...

This thing is getting weirder all the time? If I had some spare change I'd go buy one of these S10 just to figure out WTF!

Found this on another site:
The Code A has a different intake manifold with a different EGR valve. The gaskets are different.
The Code A has a different throttle body (TBI).
The Code A has a different Brainbox with different bin tuning.

1991 was a "transition" year model. During the first part of the 91 build the trucks used the remaining stock of the Vin Code E motors, and the later ones have the much more desirable L-38, H.O. Pontiac Vin Code A engine.While the Code E was a good motor, the Code A has more power, 13 more HP than the Code E.

The bin we are using is listed as L38 HO so Vin A and you have the right distributor.

But your differant Memcal has me concerned? ASWY is an LN8 motor, AUKH is a L38 motor. What distributor did the LN8 use? Alos if your distributor spins opisite of origanal you would need to swap pickup coil wo=ires for correct timing. BTW did you get the distributor idea yourself? I did those around 2000...

Possible differant thermastats? 180 or 195.

Wiring harness was differant from VIN A to E, obvious if the distributor had a cam sensor in one and not the other? Why did it have 2 sensors?

VIN A Distributor
http://www.cardone.com/Products/Product-Detail?productId=301454&p=rock

VIN E Distributor
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1123429&cc=1060894

Is this really the same Iron Duke engine?

[POZE]

This thing is getting weirder all the time? If I had some spare change I'd go buy one of these S10 just to figure out WTF!

I have wanted a chance to copy a virgin MEMCAL or buy one but haven't found one yet. Often wondered about the VE table shape. Haven't actually had this car out of the garage to see what happens under a load.

Found this on another site:
The Code A has a different intake manifold with a different EGR valve. The gaskets are different.
The Code A has a different throttle body (TBI).
The Code A has a different Brainbox with different bin tuning.

1991 was a "transition" year model. During the first part of the 91 build the trucks used the remaining stock of the Vin Code E motors, and the later ones have the much more desirable L-38, H.O. Pontiac Vin Code A engine.While the Code E was a good motor, the Code A has more power, 13 more HP than the Code E.

The bin we are using is listed as L38 HO so Vin A and you have the right distributor.


Out of ignorance I started using a VIN E Bin with the VIN A distributor. That created all sorts of ignition timing problems. The two did
not want to play together. VIN E Bin has an offset for ignition timing .


But your differant Memcal has me concerned? ASWY is an LN8 motor, AUKH is a L38 motor. What distributor did the LN8 use? Alos if your distributor spins opisite of origanal you would need to swap pickup coil wo=ires for correct timing. BTW did you get the distributor idea yourself? I did those around 2000...


I did not need to reverse the leads on the pole piece to get timing advance. Am I missing something here??? I have been told both ways on the MEMCAL compatibility. I would like to find an AUXH memcal so there are no possible concerns. Anyone know for sure about the MEMCAL question or have an AUXH or VIN A MEMCAL to sell?

Possible differant thermastats? 180 or 195.


I am using 180

Wiring harness was differant from VIN A to E, obvious if the distributor had a cam sensor in one and not the other? Why did it have 2 sensors?


Wiring diagrams are the same and now that you asked I am not sure the pole piece is functioning on VIN E distributor. Thats part of how I originally missed the distributor differences. It's obvious by now there was no donor vehicle.

VIN A Distributor
http://www.cardone.com/Products/Product-Detail?productId=301454&p=rock

VIN E Distributor
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1123429&cc=1060894

Is this really the same Iron Duke engine?[/QUOTE]

???

[POZE]

[QUOTE=RobertISaar;17638]the BPC vs vacuum was a surprise to me

If I make a change to BPC I also make the same percentage change to BPC vs Vacuum.

[EagleMark]

Picture of your distributor pole piece is also wierd? See links I provided, I've never seen one like yours.

Distributor plug in's are differant, so wiring diagram has to be differant. You've already found bin to be differant. What does timing look like at timing marks with timing light? Close to bin? Remember there are adders and subtracters...

Since we have never seen the BPW paremeter before it's only a guess, but it starts at BPW setting, then goes down. SO if you change BPW because of fuel pressure, then a guess would be yes, they all have to go down. How are BLMs?


If it runs good without fan enabled? Just find another way, like temp probe fan On/Off swtch...

All that said it still does not answer why if you turn fans on it changes code in so many places as Robert has found. I'm guessing again it changes to Lumina type code or VIN E code for offset? Have you checked timing with light with the Fan bit checked and unchecked?

[POZE]

Alldata doesn't recognize the VIN E for 1991. They only show one ECM wiring diagram and it's the VIN A so I assumed they were the same. Have to look back at 1990 to see the VIN E wiring for ECM. Looks like the Hall Effect is offset from the timing teeth of the pole piece for VIN E distributor. That should explain the offset in the Bin for VIN E. Speaking of my distributor Do you think the different design of the pole piece makes any difference? Sine wave... module just looking for amplitude?

[EagleMark]

Personally no, but I've never seen one like yours. At this point I have more questions then answers. I would be putting a timing light on it though and check with fans enabled or not to see if that is causing this issue? Be nice to see data while tuning live and making the change if you have an AutoProm or Ostrich.

[POZE]

Using the timing light I found commanded timing to be correct +5 degrees static.
I made a trip to Twilight Zone for new plugs and cured the little idle misfire. Now I will look at the WB input that started this thread and try to get that to function operating along with the AutoProm.
Thank for all your efforts to help to get the ECM fan control to function. It will be painful to go to non ECM control of the fan. I attached a log that has it going into CL. It's lean but I haven't changed anything except setting the EGR enable temp to 150 to stabilize ignition timming.

[POZE]

Mark would you have any idea why this ADX shows data error?
The original works fine.


You had the AutoProm Channel 1 installed right but did not do the PayLoad size or Packet Offset. I fixed them but take a look at this thread for further info:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?829-AutoProm-ADC-Interface-Channels-Set-up-in-TunerPro!

Total Pulse Width is working right, but it is Async, in the data is a Flag for Async so I added it above Async Total fuel, it will come on if Async fuel is used and then show a value in Async Total Fuel.

I also added BPW, with it you can do Injector Duty Cycle, look at $42 ADX, I think that is what you got the AutoProm channels from. It has Injector Duty Cycle Percent Value added and with all this done you can add a MPG History table. Whenever you do an update add a number to version, right now it is V2, so go V3, V3.1 or whatever and we will add it to info thread. No reason to make them better if we don't keep updated ones available.

If you look through ALDL 139.ds file in notepad you can add things. Couple notes, when your looking at Word # they are off by 1 ! I think this is do to hex starting at 0 not 1. So 1 is 0 and 2 is 1 etc...

Also when you get into Word # with 8 bits, numbered 0 to 7. Just type in for Packet Offset in right bow "1" and the hex part will show up correct. Then for Bitwise for 0 to 7 for Operand and Result to test they are:
0 = 0x01
1 = 0x02
2 = 0x04
3 = 0x08
4 = 0x10
5 = 0x20
6 = 0x40
7 = 0x80

That log was all Open Loop although O2 sesnor was ready and vehicle warmed up? Also TCC was Locked on at idle?

Nice work on improving data ADX files! :thumbsup:

[EagleMark]

Mark would you have any idea why this ADX shows data error?
The original works fine.

Nice work on improving data ADX files! :thumbsup:Yes, the Payload size was off, it was increased by 5 and it needs to be 6... did I do that? Anyway it's fixed and works with your last data log.

This is still the wierdest thing I've ever worked on. In the ALDL file is so much more, it even has Calculated VE! I set up the first dashboard and monitors so I could watch this.

Were you driving? No VSS?

It only runs BLM learn at idle? Closed Loop and Ready and BLM learn at idle, then Off? BLM stay at 128 and INT goes to 180ish. There's no way to use BLM for VE tables!!! INT min is 70 and max is 235 in stock bin? Is your fuel pressure holding steady? Injector big enough? It looks like it's supposed to run like this? Wierd!

I got to get me one of these S-10's! Iron Duke on EFI steroids! :jfj:

[EagleMark]

Thinking of that weird fuel table, loosing BLM learn off idle, strange INT settings, I wonder if this was GMs first attempt at a Hybrid SD/Alpha N fueling?

Haven't seen Robert? Hope he didn't loose internet again...

[POZE]

I tested it last night with the scope and it goes Asynchronous (triggering injector every reference pulse instead of every other pulse)somewhere close to 1100 RPM. I want to check it with the stock calibration to be sure I haven't created this. Next week I might get a chance to have someones 91 S-10 VIN A to verify these characteristics.

[EagleMark]

IIRC there is a flag in the ADX file that shows when it goes async as well.

Still really intrigued in this ECM, very differant.

[RobertISaar]

Thinking of that weird fuel table, loosing BLM learn off idle, strange INT settings, I wonder if this was GMs first attempt at a Hybrid SD/Alpha N fueling?

Haven't seen Robert? Hope he didn't loose internet again...

to my knowledge, GM's first attempt at hybrid alpha-n/SD was the MPFI 60V6 applications, starting in 1988(possibly late 87s)... at close to idle situations, they ran alpha-n, pretty much everything else was speed-density.


Still really intrigued in this ECM, very differant.

different = PITA. i'd much rather be(and am working on) running a single common mask/ECM to cover pretty much all possible engine/trans combinations... you won't have to learn all of the little quirks of all of the MANY combinations GM produced.

[POZE]

Am I doing something wrong? I cannot get this ADX to connect but it will play data logs. The original file works fine.:confused:

[EagleMark]

It is probably the payload size, here is one V3.1 that is origanal, if it hooks up and has a glitch try V3.2 it has the glitch fix of - add 1 to body size, if it works with no glitch then add 2 to body size and payload for AutoProm WB channel and try. For three channels of AutoProm it should be add 6.

Acqusition, Edit Definition, Commands, Mode 1 Transmit data and you will see the PayLoad and Body size. Play with these numbers, the problem is there.

AutoProm extra channels have never been tested on this ECM.

[POZE]

A few things that I observed working on the 2.5 S-10 that I cooked the MEMCAL .
Before the meltdown we scoped the injector and reference pulse together. That calibration injected every reference pulse at idle and two injector pulses to one reference during throttle snap, unlike the calibration that I have been using that injects every other reference pulse at idle. I used my ECM and chip on the S-10 and it performed the same as it did on the MG engine. So now I feel more confident the MG system isn't creating any problems. One thing I forgot to check is the OL that was happening just off idle.
Now would that MG be Async at idle (every other ref pulse) then Sync (one reference = one injector pulse )off idle where it goes Alpha N ? I am not sure if it goes two injector pulses per one reference pulse during AE and PE.

[EagleMark]

How many injectors are on the S10?

If my understanding is correct for TBI with 2 injectors, Sync fires one injector then the other = 2 reference pulses. Async is both injectors each reference but a total differant fueling stratigy as it can save some BPW for next event or if not needed loose what was saved.

Async during decel is a normal occurence.

We are not sure it goes ALpha/N that was just a theory because of the strange fuel table and staying closed loop but BLM learn stopped... on yours... IIRC.

I'm still stuck on Memcal because of netres chip? Yours is not same as what came with system? Nor do I fully understand how the differences work, but they are differant.

[POZE]

One injector on S-10 and MG.
I have been using an $83a mask VIN E MEMCAL with a $94 Mask VIN A Bin. Did some testing today. When switching MEMCALS ($83 to $94 and back) and using the same Bin it doesn't appear to have any effect. So far it appears the manual bins in $94 lock the blm off idle.

[EagleMark]

Both of those came from same motor although different mask ID. So netres and knock sensor should be the same.

I figured out the fueling strategy! It's got no BLM/LTFT, it runs strictly off INT/STFT. So tuning VE table by BLM is not going to work. To check fueling your going to have to use INT, or enable CL. BLM VE fueling only works at idle. Here's why!

[POZE]

I understand integrator and noticed its active when BLM go to 128. I don't understand the other three.
Do you think I should just use WB data to adjust VE's?

[EagleMark]

BLM are not going to work! The other three are why it goes to Short Term Fuel Trim/INT after idle. BLM readings are measured from Long Term Fuel Trim/BLM and you have none...

INT or intgrater is short term fuel trim and very quick and BLM or long term fuel trim will follow it slowly as it fills cells in the BLM learn table.

It's still in closed loop after idle, just no BLM learn, so no LTFT, only INT/short term fuel trim. Not Open Loop!

I would use the Wide Band set to Lambda, it's an easier math adjustment to make to VE %, 1.00 is lambda and .900 is rich taking away fuel and 1.100 is lean and adding fuel... and at least check fueling, the way this is set it may not need any fuel VE changes.

Could also enable CL/BLM learn with settings above and see how the log goes. Since the bin came without I'm not sure how it will react. There is no BLM cell/MAP/RPM boundaries in mask and the way this bin operates I'm not sure if it exists like every other mask/bin/system I've seen. It may only have a BLM learn cell for idle?

Could also set BLM history table to log INT.

This thing really is strange, it's right in the middle of all GM ECM/PCM and differant.

[POZE]

Update on the $94 code in the 1.5 MG.
After struggling with this for a year or more,double and triple checking the wiring,checking all signals with scope I came to a conclusion that was hard for me to accept but needed to be done. I flushed the$94 and I tried the 12P code from Delco Hacking and everything works fine. After using their tool to calculate the correct injector cc setting and selecting 4 cylinder, it started right up and acts like it should. Will need some tuning but this might just be the code to do what I need. The cooling fan works as expected, data logs and tracing work along with history tables.
Many thanks to those of you that have gave tremendous amount of help to me on the $94 . Let $94 RIP