Tuning options for Dodge Mopar

[34blazer]

just wondering if anyone has found any tuning solutions for Dodge? my Ram could use some tuning and last time i checked only tuning was high dollar, secret squirrel SCT, and no datalogging capabilities at the time. the rest were generic tuners. im wondering if anyone has hacked the factory calibration and what hardware/software options are out there now. the truck is a 1997 Ram SS/T with the 360 magnum.


thanks

[RobertISaar]

what kind of processor in them?

otherwise, megasquirt or GM OBD1/OBD2....

[34blazer]

i wish i knew lol. ive thought about installing a GM ecm but unless i piggyback it, it would have to operate the 76RE trans

[EagleMark]

Basic OBDII data logging is not an issue, Scan XL Pro.

[34blazer]

i just took a look at scan xl pro and it looks decent, as long as i can use that to do the same as with TPV5 then ill probably get it. im wondering if its even doable to tune this PCM though, if i cant flash it myself ill probably say forget it for now considering im already on a tight budget. MS or GMecm may be too much trouble, it was a bitch to tune the mustang with the 7730, especially with the E cam. and its a stick, hard to imagine tuning shift points for auto.

[Six_Shooter]

Diablo Sport has a LOT of Dodge tuning support.

http://www.diablosport.com/

[34blazer]

Diablo Sport has a LOT of Dodge tuning support.

http://www.diablosport.com/

im sure they do, but for 1998 and up. LOL

[EagleMark]

It's not uncommon to change a PCM/VCM (or whatever Dodge calls them?) in a GM. Look into system differences and it may be a swap?

[Six_Shooter]

im sure they do, but for 1998 and up. LOL

I missed the "1997."

I haven't seen any software for older Dodges, not saying it's not out there, just never something that I've even stumbed across.

[34blazer]

i think the major difference is pre-98 regulated the alternator voltage. i can probably swap it to a newer one and add a voltage reg to the alt. ill look at the PCM this week and see if i can cross reference it.

[34blazer]

well i went to get the numbers of the PCM: 440AD or 56040440AD. so far nothing on the netz. keep coming up with SCT leads from a dude named hemifever. this is going to be difficult lol

[Six_Shooter]

Yeah, I PM'd Hemifever a few times to try and get some help with tuning my Dakota, but he didn't seem to interested in pointing me in the right direction to acquire the software myself, even after explaining, that I tune my own GM EFI equipped vehicles, and didn't want a mail order tune...

[JeepsAndGuns]

Yea the complete lack of tuning support for the ecm in my wrangler is the reason I am converting it to a GM ecm. I am planning on making it my springtime project. I have already bought a complete engine harness off ebay from a wreked YJ of the same year. I have got it stripped down and making the required changes to use the gm ecm.

[34blazer]

well that needs to change lol. SCT is a scam, i wish someone would hack one of these and release it to the public. a friend of mine spent over 1G for the SCT PRP package back in 2009 and had to sign a non disclosure agreement. there must be information floating around on the net. ill keep searching lol

[34blazer]

Yeah, I PM'd Hemifever a few times to try and get some help with tuning my Dakota, but he didn't seem to interested in pointing me in the right direction to acquire the software myself, even after explaining, that I tune my own GM EFI equipped vehicles, and didn't want a mail order tune...

just joined the dodgeforums and may have found someone that can help. will see what i can dig up and ill share my findings. apparently a member over there has a family member who cracked his PCM, so hopefully they will share some info

[34blazer]

what kind of processor in them?

otherwise, megasquirt or GM OBD1/OBD2....

Robert, if i can find out which processor the PCM has would that help?

[RobertISaar]

if the processor can be determined, then the BIN can be disassembled.

BIN is probably in a FLASH PROM, so that would either require desoldering and then read in a burner or getting the PCM to spit it out over the DLC.

if it's a relatively common processor, chances are better that someone will be willing to take it on.

[34blazer]

LOL even people on the dodge forums recommend swapping to a GM PCM. So, what would be a good canidate for a swap, the 0411?

[Six_Shooter]

LOL even people on the dodge forums recommend swapping to a GM PCM. So, what would be a good canidate for a swap, the 0411?

If you want to use OBDII, that would be the one I would choose.

[34blazer]

cool thanks

[34blazer]

i think i found something that will help....

http://jtec.info/index.php?title=Unknown_Year,_5.2L_MC68HC16Z2_Init ialization_Code_Overview&action=edit

looks like a Motorola mc68hc16z2 processor

source....
http://dodgeforum.com/forum/2nd-gen-ram/279733-pcm.html

found some bins...

http://thespeedfreaks.net/showthread.php?4116-SCT-the-real-deal-Or-PCM-Flash/page2

[RobertISaar]

6816 is totally workable...

now, can you get access to the BIN(s)?

[34blazer]

well i downloaded these from speedfreaks, wont open on my computer but maybe you can get it to open


source, post #31

http://thespeedfreaks.net/showthread.php?4116-SCT-the-real-deal-Or-PCM-Flash/page2


also found this link, this guy wrote a plugin to disassemble bins

http://www.andywhittaker.com/ECU/DisassemblingaBoschME755/tabid/96/language/en-US/Default.aspx

[RobertISaar]

256KB BINs..... plenty to play with. the "52" BIN i have opened is empty from 29FF6 to the end of the BIN at 40000..... LOT of extra space.

odd that they use a 6816 as a main processor and a pair of 6811s for fuel/spark control... simplifies the main calibration a bit, but it would introduce things that cannot be changed....

anyways, i had that one loaded into IDA, but i have no idea where the reset vector is stored on the 6816s.... when that and the other vectors are determined, then i can get it disassembled at least.

[34blazer]

LOL glad you can make some sense out of it. you get this figured out and ill buy you a case of beer lmao

[RobertISaar]

if i get it figured out, from the sounds of it, i'll be putting a couple of dodge tuners out of business.

[34blazer]

nah, they might have to work a little harder lol

[RobertISaar]

found the pink book for the 68HC16....

good news is that it acts like an updated/upgraded 68HC11..... the bad news is that it's basically the halfway point between a 68HC11 and the 68332 as used in a lot of GM OBD2 stuff.... it's basically a 68HC11 with integrated bank switching capabilities and makes for some rather confusing instructions...

but i did find the vector table, so i have some idea of how the code is going to execute.

the reset vector is actually kind of hard to calculate due to the bank switching... but it looks like it is 10000h.

i've gotten a little bit of it disassembled..... initial impressions are that it was definitely not created in a lower level language.

[34blazer]

found the pink book for the 68HC16....

good news is that it acts like an updated/upgraded 68HC11..... the bad news is that it's basically the halfway point between a 68HC11 and the 68332 as used in a lot of GM OBD2 stuff.... it's basically a 68HC11 with integrated bank switching capabilities and makes for some rather confusing instructions...

but i did find the vector table, so i have some idea of how the code is going to execute.

the reset vector is actually kind of hard to calculate due to the bank switching... but it looks like it is 10000h.

i've gotten a little bit of it disassembled..... initial impressions are that it was definitely not created in a lower level language.

i wish i could understand and help more Rob, any suggestions on what i could do to help? im studying hex and binary in my free time but if theres a way i can pick this up faster let me know so i can help. anyway, if you want to visit speedfreaks there is others out there that have made some progress if it helps. feel free to chime in as well, im sure your knowlege would be welcomed. Thanks for your help this far!

http://thespeedfreaks.net/showthread.php?7503-Open-Source-JTEC-tunning/page3

[RobertISaar]

not much to do to help, unless you have any specific knowledge of the 6816...

the info from that thread does match a lot of what i have found to be true as well.... so it seems i'm at least on the right track.

i have the file i've been working on fully or at least close to fully disassembled.... good news is that there actually doesn't seem to be that much calibration to it.... bad news is that it means there is a WHOLE lot of algorithm to go through to try and understand the calibration. with no kind of reference to go off of(like the ALDL stream in GM OBD1 stuff), i really can't get much further than this.

i can upload the IDA and ASM files so far, but i don't know how much use they'll be to anybody.

[34blazer]

hopefully the owner of this page is still around....

http://www.jtec.info/index.php?title=Unknown_Year,_5.2L_MC68HC16Z2_Init ialization_Code_Overview

also have this, i can join and grab the zip file if you think it would help?

http://chipgods.com/showthread.php?t=55

[34blazer]

this may help...

http://www.jtec.info/index.php?title=File:DC_emulated_jtec2.png


http://www.jtec.info/index.php?title=File:DC_emulated_jtec1.png




"These processors have a motorola debug interface (BDM interface) onboard... there is no header for it on the jtec... but someone with good soldering skills could solder up an interface to it directly to the cpu... that would get a datastream."

[RobertISaar]

the early OBD2(96 and 97?) GM PCM units are said to have the same port, and it was supposedly capable of dumping the BIN and possibly writing a new one in?

[34blazer]

i have no idea, i was hoping you could shed some light on that?

[enlight22]

bdm will allow you to directly command the cpu... so you would be able to read and write the bin... although a better way to do that would be to hook a logic analyser up to a sct tuner and see how they do it over the obd port... cause these controllers are sealed up tight and i doubt your average person is gonna crack one open and solder directly to the cpu to get access to the bdm interface...

[RobertISaar]

at that point, i'm officially beyond what i know of the 6816s.... one could look up what kind of PROM is being used and see what the programming sequence for it looks like, then write out a program to be uploaded via the BDM link and have the 6816 do that...

http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/ecm_info/32bit/dumpflash/

there's the link i remember. it's one option anyways.

[34blazer]

WHAM! right into a brick wall. LOL

[34blazer]

sent a couple of emails out to see if they can help, also joined delcohacking and posted there. shot in the dark, hopefully i can gather more people. Thanks for your help so for Rob, Enlight22.

[34blazer]

well this is it so far lol. im going to study on disassembly and commenting so i can help out more, its just going to take much longer. and from what has been said this far, figuring out a way to upload it via ALDL is another mountain, damn.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freescale_68HC16


also, where can i get myself a free copy of IDA?

[enlight22]

aldl is a gm specific thing afaik. we will have to upload via bdm or by reverse engineering the method to do it over the obd port.

[34blazer]

aldl is a gm specific thing afaik. we will have to upload via bdm or by reverse engineering the method to do it over the obd port.

i always thought OBD II laws stated all vehicles have to have accessible data through the ALDL? ill have to find a pinout to verify

[Six_Shooter]

The Acronym "ALDL" is GM specific, for "Assembly Line Diagnostic Link". This is most commonly used in reference to teh OBD1 Delco ECMs and PCMs.

The OBD2 data port is most commonly refered to as an "OBD port", or "On Board Diagnostic port."

[EagleMark]

i always thought OBD II laws stated all vehicles have to have accessible data through the ALDL? ill have to find a pinout to verifyThe OBDII laws and PIDS are all the same for emmissions, this made repairs at shops much easier, but each manufacturer has ther own Enhanced versions as well.

[RobertISaar]

another common term for the port that came around right before OBD2 was implimented was "data link connector" (DLC).

it's all relatively synonymous if you don't look too far into it.

[34blazer]

OK thanks for the heads up, apologies for being ignorant lol. Our comm support is at the squadron with us so Im going to start bugging them to see if i can come up with something. Either way it looks like we are stuck for know. Its going to be awhile before I can learn enough to start helping but Im not giving up on this. Too stubborn...

[EagleMark]

Get a spare PCM and take it apart, desolder chip, read it, solder in a Zip socket with new EEPROM. No OBDII port flashing...

[RobertISaar]

that solves up/downloads.... now to actually make sense of the calibration.... woof.

figuring out what gigantic tables do is prettty easy, but little stuff(scalars/flags), that's the painful stuff to figure out.

[EagleMark]

Simple stuff for a guy like you! :innocent2:

[RobertISaar]

i can make decent assumptions, but beyond that, with no solid information on anything in the calibration, that's pretty much all they are until they're tested on a real-world vehicle.

[EagleMark]

How does the 2d and 3d data viewer help to do this in TunerPro?

[RobertISaar]

i don't use it..... i actually have a french program to look at stuff in raw values, displays the actual values, along with color coded cells, easily allows you two switch between various bit lengths, etc....

but the basic principle is the same, open up a BIN with it, look for patterns, move the viewer around at suspect addresses, try to make a table come out of seemingly nothing by adjusting the start point, bit depth and row/column count.

when you do positively ID a few tables(preferably a few of 2D and a few 3D), you can then go into the disassembly and see where they're referenced, and more importantly, the subroutine used to look up the value from a table. then since you know what subroutine is used for the table, you can then find all the places in the code that jump to that subroutine and you'll find pretty much all of the tables, unless they use a different lookup subroutine. GM OBD1 calibrations use between ~2 and ~5 2D lookup subroutines depending on how complex the program is, 3D lookups.... usually 1, sometimes 2.

and that's how you find most of the tables.... now to figure out what they do and why they're used... that's the hard part.

[mekkis]

The software part number for your ECU is 05278334AB, if there is any way you can get a copy of the binary (dumping it out of the BDM is most likely) then I can probably help in a limited fashion.

[mekkis]

Also, that I'm getting from my literature (attached) is that the 96-98 2.5/3.9/4.0/5.2/5.9 JTEC blank hardware part number is 05014152AA (V10 is 05014153AA), and from the couple binaries I have the code changes a bit across those years. FYI, 99+ is all over the place although 05018488AA is the most common for 5.2/5.9, but not used at all for the Jeeps. I think (?) it may reflect ECUs equipped with the factory anti-theft/IMMO vs the ones without.

[mekkis]

I suspect the previous 5.2, 5.2 Mopar Performance, 5.9, and "98" model 5.9 binaries attached to the thread are all 1997 calibrations - a quick visual check of map locations show both 96 and 98 maps are in different locations.

Here's some stuff for you.

[34blazer]

whoa! almost forgot about this thread LOL. very interested in what can be done here!

[34blazer]

I suspect the previous 5.2, 5.2 Mopar Performance, 5.9, and "98" model 5.9 binaries attached to the thread are all 1997 calibrations - a quick visual check of map locations show both 96 and 98 maps are in different locations.

Here's some stuff for you.

i dont suppose there is a way i could open these up without using a dissassembler? i tried downloading one but caught a trojan instead, just fixed my PC the other day LOL

[EagleMark]

I just checked all those files and there's no trojan, virus or? They are just bin files, use TunerPro, Tools, Advanced, Hex editor. There's no XDF/mask for these...

[mekkis]

There's no XDF/mask for these...

There can be.

[EagleMark]

There can be.That would put them in the playing field!

Mask is'nt the hard part though, TunerPro makes building a mask easy... from a commented dissasembly...

[34blazer]

That would put them in the playing field!

Mask is'nt the hard part though, TunerPro makes building a mask easy... from a commented dissasembly...

agreed, everything helps! still wonder how SCT talks to the PCM thru the DLC. that would be the main issue...

[enlight22]

my 98 5.9 jeep was manufactured 11/97 so that may explain the 1997 cal..

[34blazer]

so any updates?

[Playtoy_18]

My info is several years old,but for safety reasons I feel the need to post it up.
I was looking into a solution for tuning a neon several years back and asked about on some boards.
My questions were promptly deleted and I got a nice pm from the admin asking to please not ask about tuning dodges etc..
He said that mopar actually retains licensing or patents on their programming and every time they sniff one out are quick to sue the crap out of them.
Apparently they go after sites as well because he was pretty paranoid.
He said that it is done,but never talk about it on the boards.

Research at the time confirmed what he said I remember,as at the time there were only a couple tuners authorized to reprogram calibrations though there were "tuned" pcm's available from the parts dept as well.

Like I said,not sure if this is true or not but something to be aware of.

[34blazer]

makes sense considering the bin files were delected off another forum once i started asking about it. chrysler has also started using encryption chips from what ive read(on 2011-newer vehicles). if thats the case, they can have it, ill swap to a 0411 LOL. just need to figure out if the solenoids in the trans will work with the 411??

[mekkis]

Yeah, if they sued people then you'd have folks linking to actual court dates and case numbers. I'm sure they have zero interest in private parties reversing cars that are under warranty - save for the cases of large tuning houses that approach the OEM directly to purchase their white papers with clear intent and marketable motives - but anywhere from the moment the car goes off OEM warranty to 7-8 years old they really stop caring.

Moving on.

Today we are sick in bed with the laptop, poking at an xdf I lightheartedly call "97JTEC.xdf" based off of the previously posted 97 BT 5.2 Regulated MT 04852983AA.bin‎ (http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=3638&d=1359587157). Expect this to be abandoned quickly, as I have other obligations that occupy me 8 days a week, other reversals that are actually vehicles I own (none of it on hand, at the moment), and the attention span of a goldfish. What were we talking about?


CHECKSUM

0x002102 (perform 8 bit checksum on all the 97 binaries - do you see what I see?)



FUEL

Primary fuel map: 0x002B82 has the 8 bit value for # of rows (RPM). 0x11 = 17 rows. 0x002B83 has the 8 bit value for # of columns (MAP). 0x09 = 9 columns. The fuel map begins at 0x002B86, 16 bit values, (X*4)/1000 renders it to mSec pulsewidth. Actual row/column scalars are located somewhere else, I can't find them right off.

Fuel map, with EGR on: row/column scalars at 0x002CB8/0x002CB9, fuel map begins at 0x002CC.

Part throttle enrichment table: 0x002E4F/0x002E50 scalars, map begins 0x002E53. Additive to base fuel tables when not in PE mode.

PE multiplier, 2D table at 0x002F12. 8 bit values, for the even address location each value converted to decimal - (X*31.875) results in the RPM headings, for the odd addresses the 8 bit value converted to decimal (1+[X/256]) results in the multiplier. So, the first string of 13 20 3F 20 results in ~ 600 rpm 1.125 mult 2000 rpm 1.125 mult. You guessed it - 17 values long.

Injector minimum pulsewidth ~0x002B79, or a value or two after that. Going off the top of my head, can't find where I commented that.

[mekkis]

Fuel injector latency, same 8 bit format as PE multiplier; voltage/mSec/voltage/mSec, etc. 0x002DEF. Decimal value divided by 16 equals voltage, Decimal value times 16 divided by 1000 is mSec.


The MAP pressure trips into PE mode, as well as the TPS trip points, is a bit of a mess as of yet. Still working on it.

[mekkis]

What I have typed into TP5 so far. I am very much NOT certain that the Fuel/Ignition table RPM scalar is accurate. Load one of the 5.9 binaries in and they end up hammered. Everything else should be good.

[mekkis]

Edited in the name of progress

[EagleMark]

Nice work and great progress! :thumbsup:

[enlight22]

this is such awesome stuff, mekkis, do u mind if i copy this new stuff onto my jtec.info site, or if your interested, ill make u an account and you can add/modify whatever u want? also mekkis, where did u get the bins u posted on post 54, or are they the bins i posted to thespeedfreaks ages ago renamed... just curious how they were obtained

[mekkis]

Take it, its yours. I'll try to flesh out the xdf, and fix the broken axes in whats there, this weekend. I'm still sick and not really getting better, so another day of bedrest is in order.

[mekkis]

BTW, this was given to me some months ago and I've not had a chance to crack it open yet and peek. The black heatshrink affair at the top left is a stack of watch batteries with power wires going into the case, I assume to maintain memory on some sort of volatile RAM affair, and my hand is blocking two wires banana clipped together which I assume to be some sort of communications bus. Worst case it's junk or complicated, best case it's something straightforward and relevant to real time flashing/tuning.

[enlight22]

well that is interesting, i wonder what is inside? where did that craziness come from. Might be an instrumended jtec... i have heard of such a thing mentioned... never seen one.

[34blazer]

maybe those wires connect directly to the main processor itself? interested to see what you find....

[enlight22]

i wonder if this guy could be of assistance, http://www.linkedin.com/pub/emilio-perez-pmp/7/b60/487

have a look at his resume, he worked on this pcm, search jtec in his profile, worked at motorola aieg, on the my series of controllers for daimler chrysler...

probably wouldnt help us though... but itd be nice..

[34blazer]

well I have an account, so Ill give it a shot since Im not much of use otherwise LMAO.

[mekkis]

i wonder if this guy could be of assistance, http://www.linkedin.com/pub/emilio-perez-pmp/7/b60/487

have a look at his resume, he worked on this pcm, search jtec in his profile, worked at motorola aieg, on the my series of controllers for daimler chrysler...

probably wouldnt help us though... but itd be nice..

Do we have pictures of all the different flavors of JTEC hardware? I ask because that LinkedIn profile suggests three evolutions of hardware... I'm interested in how interchangeable the code itself is, as I've a friend who just acquired a 2001 XJ and is asking after fooling with it.

[mekkis]

Hum... http://www.nastf.org/files/public/DC-Chrysler_rep_Matrix_10-29-04.xls

Looks like 96-98 JTEC, 99-04 JTEC+, and JTEC Lite is for uncommon auto trans control. I think I have a bricked JTEC+ somewhere, should compare handily to the engineering sample JTEC I have kicking around.

[mekkis]

More looking about has JTEC+ as a pretty fractured market. 99+ 4.7's have their own hardware as they are COP, with a few other quirks among the distributored 3.9/5.2/5.9 hardwares, and I haven't even looked at the Jeep stuff yet. There's some 3-->4 ECU plug changeover that happens between '02-'04, might be early NGC3 controllers - IDK, the only NG3 I've fooled with is wiring a resistor into two 05 SRT-4 so they couldn't throw a code for the battery temp sensor when flashed with 04 code, and I don't remember what they looked like.

[34blazer]

still interested in this thread. I wish I could contribute more. just found out that tuition assistance was cut today(AF) so thats going to hurt my ability to get more formal training in this field. still studying in my free time(which isnt much) and its amazing how much is out there to learn, just not very organized and not complete.

[mekkis]

You're fine. I was worthless when I got into this - not that I'm all that and a bowl of grits now, but I've come a long way. It takes time and effort, just like everything else in life.

[mekkis]

From JTEC.info: http://jtec.info/index.php?title=File:PCM_MC_Overview.JPG

The engineering sample ECU has a daughterboard clipped on top of the MCU, with ribbon cables going from it to the three rows of pads on either side if the MCU. Pair of Hitachi HM628128LFP-7's, couple SMT components and a transistor. I'll post pics when the internet is back up at the house.

[mekkis]

ping

[34blazer]

ping

so what is the purpose of the daughterboard then?

[mekkis]

bump

[RobertISaar]

might want to try that again... red text is quite garbled.

[mekkis]

Good catch, thank you. Red text still sucks, but is readable. I forgot how poorly mspaint rendered jpgs.

[mekkis]

Progress...

[mekkis]

And, honestly, as per the chipping OBD2 GM thread, if I had some SMT pin headers on hand I think we all know what I'd rather be doing. Unless JTEC has funky ground plane issues that prevents dual Ostriches, like some Nissans. In which case I have a QH collecting dust. Just needs some adapter boards, and I'm in the running.

[mekkis]

FYI, the chips are the quirky odd/even affair. I used the venerable (Nissan) Rom Editor to merge the binaries, but I understand WinHex supports that function, and John Kerr of Nismotronic fame has a simple utility he scripted that does the same.

[34blazer]

Still not understanding but good to see this thread is still alive!

[mekkis]

Still not understanding but good to see this thread is still alive!

Basically, what the GM guys only wish was cheap and easy for them, is for JTEC.

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1440-Chips-in-a-OBDII-PCM

[EagleMark]

After seeing what your doing here I'm sure you'll figure it out! :thumbsup:

[mekkis]

Learned a hard lesson about JTECs, both chipped ones are now dead. They are the LEAST ESD tolerant hardware I've ever dealt with. I suspect both units would still be alive if I had made sure the case was grounded when powered, but I have some doubts. Chipping is a great way to recover one that's had a bad flash, I am not sure if it is a viable method of tuning on a budget.

[34blazer]

well thats a bummer :(

[mekkis]

It's a bit pricey, but the concept of a dual Ostrich or RR adapter board is 100% viable.

[mekkis]

Proof of concept.

Stock 5.9 Magnum with Mopar Performance intake and Holley TB stamped "prototype" on it. Was one of Ronnie Sox's cars, converted to EFI in '98 using a '96 donor.

http://s15.postimg.org/gjvpu9drb/2012_11_21_15_27_40_900.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/gjvpu9drb/)

http://s15.postimg.org/jf8t14hrb/2012_10_15_09_47_09_737.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/jf8t14hrb/)

http://s15.postimg.org/5696j238n/2012_10_15_10_56_42_312.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/5696j238n/)

http://s15.postimg.org/ezqdvv5d3/Comparo.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/ezqdvv5d3/)


Now, pull the boring old 5.9 and build a Magnum-based 408 with EQ heads and a mild cam.

http://s15.postimg.org/tueza1exz/408_400whp_414wtq.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/tueza1exz/)



Alright, I'm ready to do a turbo Cherokee now.

[34blazer]

pretty decent power from a stock 5.9. so im assuming you found a way to tune the JTEC?

[mekkis]

A JTEC. I've done "this" for over a decade, true familiarity with a platform requires tuning 50, and you aren't a master until closer to 500. I have a good grasp of 96 and 97, a good feel for the rest of JTEC, with two bricked JTEC+ on my bench.

I may tune enough to cover my investement in gear, but at this point it's all my stubbornness and trying to rationalize why I need another fuel hog Cherokee, that keeps me going.

[enlight22]

A JTEC. I've done "this" for over a decade, true familiarity with a platform requires tuning 50, and you aren't a master until closer to 500. I have a good grasp of 96 and 97, a good feel for the rest of JTEC, with two bricked JTEC+ on my bench.

I may tune enough to cover my investement in gear, but at this point it's all my stubbornness and trying to rationalize why I need another fuel hog Cherokee, that keeps me going.

because they are awesome. I really need to update jtec.info with this interesting progress.

[Force Fed Mopar]

What would one need to acquire to do work on this? As in equipment and skills? I have some experience with the earlier LM/SMEC/SBEC systems, though not anywhere near as much as shelgame has.

Been following this JTEC hacking through several forums for a while now (34blazer gets around lol), I have a '72 D100 I'm swapping a 4.7 5-spd into along with a factory harness and computer, that will eventually be pretty heavily modded and probably boosted, so I will need control of the parameters. It's either hack the Jtec or go MS. I also just picked up a '01 Durango with a 4.7 that I'd like to tweak, although just a regular plain tuner would probably do me fine on it.

[34blazer]

HA!

Ive about given up on this, it would be nice to see something come out of it.

[doctortuned]

Off subject.
I have the cmr dodge gas software. If any other tuners need a file built. Im willing to help them.

[Force Fed Mopar]

I did some looking into the SCT stuff and I think I'll probably just go that route. Costs a bit but it will work.

[34blazer]

Bump. Just curious if there were any updates from anyone?

[oaeelectronics@gmail.com]

Hi 34blazer thank you for the invite to this forum if you need any info on the jtec controller or any automotive electronics just send me an email. I have been in the automotive electronics repair business for 10 years and have any info you would ever need for the jtec or any other module you can think of I just started a automotive electronics reverse engineering youtube channel. I just started to reverse engineer the jtec controller Ill be passing on my 10 years of knowledge I have on these units so please subscribe thanks alot. You can find my youtube channel at "Erin Laws".

[RobertISaar]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvvXCfcTbGeqPEllHECtDtw

is that the correct channel?

[oaeelectronics@gmail.com]

Yes search Erin Laws my account pic is an android , search for dodge jtec computer repair you will also find it

[34blazer]

Welcome! Cant tell you how happy I am to see some progress!

http://thespeedfreaks.net/showthread.php?7503-Open-Source-JTEC-tunning/page4

[turbo_neoffroad]

hi, guys.. just registered after following this whole JTEC reprogramming thread.. it sucks to see that good progress came to a grinding halt..
hopefully, i just may be able to help and get this show back on the road...

i noticed that the JTEC wiki isn't working - except for links to a couple pictures..

so, hopefully between here and speedfreaks, this can get worked out..

as far as this SCT company, it looks like they're just flashing calibrations, rather than the whole eeprom..
does anyone know if the pinout for this motorola z3 processor exists (or as least for this processors' maskset)
need to find out if this eeprom has the programming voltage and reset pins going to the processor.
(can we just get the eeprom to drop into programming, or does it need to be bootstrapped like the motorola ME7 / 7.2 / 7.5 ecus?)

i know a lot of the newer chrysler pcms' use that SCI bus specifically for programming - not sure if the older ones even have that bus...

so, if we have a pinout of the processor that's in there, and if the correct programming pins go from the eeprom to the processor, it's just a matter of finding all the calls to the port that controls those pins, and working backwards from there.
usually for 'security', a lot of these obdii programmable pcm / ecu's will use some completely screwed up sequence of commands to enter a programming mode..
GM uses a seed / key for security access
Subaru uses a pin that goes to B+ voltage
volvo actually uses the central electrical module to do all the dirty work - it puts all the modules in the car into a 'bootstrap' mode, all the data is sent to the CEM; which then decides if the data is good / checksummed correctly, then it will program the corresponding module, then reset all the modules in the car to take them out of 'bootstrap'
(BTW - you can just bootstrap the eeprom in a volvo ECU, and directly read / write to the ECU via a basic K-line connection)
The older nissan JTEC ecu's had commands you could send via diag line to read out the ecu - one byte at a time

I guess one obvious way to make this easier would be to record the argument between the PCM and a J2534 during a standard calibration update.

The maps, axis, and scaling information is a pretty straightforward thing to do. I don't understand some of these other posts by 'those in the know' about the stock PCM not having the 'resolution' to do this or that...
part of the formula that the pcm / ecu uses to calculate how long to fire the injectors is 'injector deadtime' - this is the value you use to change the size of the injector - you change that, and everything else on the fuel side gets scaled accordingly.

using a stock pcm / ecu, you actually have a very good amount of adjustment (plus all the factory safeguards) - oh, and for those with OBDII, when inspection time comes ALL the OBDII test calibration stuff is in there too... hell you can set it to run all your monitors at idle, in 5 minutes if you want.

I am completely hellbent on being able to reprogram this pcm....
it's a motorola processor - so BDM is a viable option - even to just 'watch' what the processor is doing

I understand (in a way) what the 'companies' are trying to do.. "I know something you don't know... unless you want to pay.." I understand they have overhead, development costs, marketing, and of course; since the only people who can really afford some of this 'tuning company' stuff, pretty much piss money, they need to make a hefty sum since only a few people will have enough money to buy...

Dilemma did a open-source project for SAABS - T5 suite, T7 suite and T8 Suite. sure, if you didn't have the technical knowledge to do it yourself, most of the higher-end cookie-cutter tunes from companies were between $120-$350. That is a much more realistic price for your average person to pay..

And, another reason this should be obtainable info - if the car companies have their way (a couple car companies are whining to congress) - vehicle pcm / ecu's may be soon covered under the DMCA....

if anyone has copies of the stuff that got posted to JTEC.INFO, it would be great to be able to get copies....

Even if this PCM needs to be bench-flashed with some type of harness, it really needs to be figured out!
I'm sick of having vehicles with ECU's that can't be screwed with! I just finished my Discovery I ecu.. there really was NO info on it out there - thankfully, it just used 2 socketed EPROMs..

[1project2many]

The maps, axis, and scaling information is a pretty straightforward thing to do. I don't understand some of these other posts by 'those in the know' about the stock PCM not having the 'resolution' to do this or that...

I can only wonder if it's similar to GM hardware in that issues exist in A/D converter resolution. I've put a 3 BAR calibration into a GM box successfully as have many others, but there is a much larger range between cells when this is done. Adding more table entries does not overcome this. I didn't find my application to be difficult to tune but then again my understanding is that Dodge / Jeep programming relies heavily on calculated curves vs tables?

I have an interest in Jtec as I have a friend with an OBDII Jeep that is installing a stroker engine. We are discussing using a GM ECM in his vehicle but it would be neat to be able to work with the OE controller. I also have a Jeep which will get a stroker but I'm dedicated to using a GM computer.

[turbo_neoffroad]

I can only wonder if it's similar to GM hardware in that issues exist in A/D converter resolution. I've put a 3 BAR calibration into a GM box successfully as have many others, but there is a much larger range between cells when this is done. Adding more table entries does not overcome this. I didn't find my application to be difficult to tune but then again my understanding is that Dodge / Jeep programming relies heavily on calculated curves vs tables?

I have an interest in Jtec as I have a friend with an OBDII Jeep that is installing a stroker engine. We are discussing using a GM ECM in his vehicle but it would be neat to be able to work with the OE controller. I also have a Jeep which will get a stroker but I'm dedicated to using a GM computer.

well, these boxes with all the wires don't really care what manufacturer is stamped on the motor.... signals in, function out!
a couple good examples i've seen over the years - DSM Eclipse ecu running turboed nissan 240sx KA24DE motor..
SAAB ecu running DSM 4G63, SAAB ecu running nissan RB20DET...

The trionic (SAAB ECU) guys have had it a little easier than the rest of us - all the table notation, axis values, and scalar information is nicely documented, and indexed IN THE ECU ITSELF!
check out "Reverse that Trionic" - https://code.google.com/archive/p/reverse-that-trionic/source/default/source
the Trionic utilizes a motorola processor as well, and these guys have done a INCREDIBLE job documenting all their work!
They have all the BDM code / commands documented awesomely as well.

What has been done with the Trionic; is nothing short of converting it to almost standalone status! what do you want? 4 Bar map? Done! 1500cc injectors? just a mouse click away. Perfect control of 35+ Psi of boost? No problem!

The ONLY thing preventing this ecu from being used for everything...... Immobilizer... *Although, IF you still have a account on MHH Auto, and ask REAL-Nice-Like; there are people who have actually removed the immo code from the ecu.. you better have a valid project to back it up, or they don't want to hear it (For obvious reasons)

I actually have a closely guarded BIN from one of my project SAAB ECU's (worked for a specialty SAAB / Volvo shop for about a decade) I was going to swap a turbo 2.3 SAAB motor into a S10 Chassis.. (Just couldn't find a chassis worth working with - I live in New England - nuff said...) They're both GM, The motor would've bolted right up to the trans with VERY minor modification...

Now, after my experience with my 87 Toyota Supra MKIII - the ONLY place on the planet that could actually do any type of real tuning on this stock ECU was up in canada... and all said and done, would've had to drop around $1500 for a daughterboard and basic tuning - ON ENCRYPTED CHIPS - after all that $$$, I still couldn't make any changes to the ecu myself.....

The BEST part of all that I want to do with the JTEC isn't even for myself.... I've got a bunch of friends with jeeps, and usually i'm the 'man with the plan' - used to be mazdas, fords, and nissans... those were relatively easy.....

Another option COULD possibly be - "Calumsult" - guy called Calum developed a programmable rom daughterboard for a bunch of the nissan ecus - could program and datalog in real time - via usb.. Swapping the EEPROM for a "daughterboard" like that is a possibility as well..
I'll have to shoot him a e-mail and see if that is something that would be feasable..
Hell, i guess just getting the schematic for a simple USB chip programmer and stuffing it onto the EEPROM could be a solution as well....

One of my favorite ECU mods / hacks / improvements to date was for the EPROM style ECUs - a daughterboard of sorts with a push-button rotary switch - you copy your program code to a much larger EPROM (27c256 -> 29F1024) and switch the high bits for the address line.... *POOF* now you can switch roms on the fly (since the ecu already read the program code when you started the motor - now it's just reading data from the tables) - it WOULD occasionally hiccup when you switched roms... but that wasn't really a problem.....

Now it seems that there are a LOT of people swapping to these LT1 GM ECUs for stuff that really shouldn't need that much work.. (i.e. stroker conversion)
what changes do you REALLY need to make? Obviously you need to change your injector deadtime (more displacement -> more fuel needed), and i'm pretty sure those motors like the timing advanced a bit on the bottom end; as well as a lower rev limiter (you don't really want to wind up a stroked motor like a honda)

Even getting a 'donor' PCM, opening it, removing the EEPROM and installing a socket for a surface-mount EEPROM STILL seems like WAY less work than trying to get all the signals right for a GM ECU...

And once again, what about the OBDII crowd? The PCM stores the VIN - and being a programmer AND a state inspector (and having been bored and reverse-engineered the inspecton machine code) Regardless of the year, the state's machine tries a couple of tricks to read any VIN or calibration number in the ECU, as well as the ECU (bus network) ID. Regardless of whether or not it conviently pops the vin up to populate the forms in the inspection machine, it does have quite the conversation with the PCM / ECU.. Along with the fact that between a GM PCM, and a Chrysler PCM, the I/M monitors are going to be different... This WILL set a red flag either with the state or whatever company is running the inspection program.
In a lot of states, now if the OBDII port doesn't work at all, and it's newer than 96 - it gets denied inspection as well as getting flagged with your states' DMV and DOT - It looks like you're trying to "clean scan" another vehicle to get a sticker for yours...

I have at my disposal - DSO oscilloscopes, logic probes, EEPROM reader / writers, BDM interfaces, a X-Prog M, Bus pirate, and various Motorola (Freescale) simulators and emulators, a ton of ECU rom editors (winols, etc), and a Launch 'SensorBox' (can record and play back up to 15 running engine signals)

I however do NOT currently have - Any JTEC or JTEC+ PCMs, EEPROM dumps, Datasheets, or Processor pinouts..

I have taken a 96/97 (can't remember which year it was from - had the non-flexible board inside) apart, and found just by observation that the architecture seems to have a main 16-bit Motorola Z3 (the Z3 note is from another thread where the presenter showed his work in determining that it is in fact a Z3 processor, not a Z2 - like the current 'belief') processor and 2 8-bit Motorola MC68HClID3 and MC68HCllK4 processors that are what control fuel and spark delivery.
Makes sense to use that 16bit architecture to the fullest - it looks like spark may be controlled by the high order bytes and fuel is controlled by the low order bytes.
(the 16bits of processing are split into 2 8-bit paths, that control 2 8-bit microcontrollers to do all the dirty work..)
The MC68HC16Z3 main processor has a 256k external EEPROM; where as the 8-bit microcontrollers seem to be OTP (one-time programmable), and with very limited memory in them; they are most likely programmed with mathematical formulas rather than actual program code.
From the research that the person on Speedfreaks was doing, it looks like a lot of the incoming signals get multiplexed to all 3 processors.
The setup kinda looks like the main processor is sending the workhorses basic calculated values, which the workhorses finish the math, and perform the function..
(I.E. the fuel 8-bit processor gets sent injector pulse time, injector deadtime, and timing values - which probably will continue to repeat the function for those values until the data changes)
So, there's one scalar that we should have access to - Injector deadtime.. the controller NEEDS to know how long to keep the injector off until the next injector fire occurance. This is the value that lets you change your injector size, usually with NO OTHER changes needed..
The processor needs the Deadtime value to be able to calculate how long to have the injector open.

Another big one seems to be the whole MAP sensor thing..
If you REALLY feel like doing actual algebra (Mind you, I have a Bachelors' degree in computer science, and programming ECUs is THE FIRST TIME since school ended that i ever actually needed to use algebra!!! - No, you don't use algebra in the 'REAL' world)
You can do the math and figure out the percentage of difference between a 1-BAR, 2-BAR, 2.5-BAR (GM / SAAB), and 3-BAR map sensor.
Now, if you know your original injector size, you multiply that percentage to your injector size, and now you know what size injectors to throw in to use a whatever-BAR map sensor with 'NO' programming required....

This would work in a PERFECT world.... too bad we don't live there... it will work - kind-of.. idle will be crap, and it'll run on the rich side.
any trims the PCM will try to make will be drastic - it doesn't know the new Injector Deadtime......
But, it WILL work - to a point...

Let's NOT try to cross THAT bridge...

There are enough people here that want to see this done - on a scale that would make it available to everyone!

Don't get me wrong - I understand that the tuning 'companies' are providing a valuable service, and they DO have overhead...
If I want to be able to tweak my PCM to have a bit more pep and better fuel economy, I should be able to.
If i'm trying to use a stock or heavily modified motor to put out all it's worth; running on the edge of detonation, even i'm going to go to a proven, reliable tuner with a dyno...

The object of this is NOT to try to compete with or take business AWAY from these companies, it boils down to: maybe I want to screw around with the box that runs my engine.. when i'm ready to build a race car, or some type of purpose-built vehicle that will constantly get the crap beat out of it on a track or in the woods, i'm going to see a tuner with a dyno.. THAT'S when (and only when) i'm going to let myself get pounded out of over $800....

If this project costs me $1000 to complete, and say some hardware is needed for others to do the same thing, i'm not going to try to milk $1000 out of each person..
if the hardware costs me $30 to produce, i'd charge like $40 for it - not $400+

Doing this is a HOBBY! it's FUN to find the answer to a complex riddle.... It's even MORE fun to bitch-slap a piece of 'uncrackable / unmodifiable' hardware to bend to your will!


Please don't mind my ranting - 2-days without sleep, wacked out on my ADHD meds usually causes this :)

Links / sources:
CalumSult: http://calumsult.wikidot.com/
Reverse-that-trionic: [COLOR=#ffffff]https://code.google.com/archive/p/reverse-that-trionic (https://code.google.com/archive/p/reverse-that-trionic)
T5, T7, and T8 suites: A quick google search "T5 suite" can find you a copy of it
WinOLS:http://www.evc.de/en/product/ols/software/
Tuning Parts / Daughterboards: grid.co.jp

[1project2many]

Well, it sounds like you have the training, experience, knowledge, time, and motivation to get this done. I'll just stand by...

[JeepsAndGuns]

The inability of regular "joe's" like us to tune the Jeep ecm's is what is driving me to swap to a GM ecm in the future. I am building a stroker for my YJ right now (block is at the machine shop) and I want to be able to tune it to get it's max potential. However there is pretty much nothing out there for regular people like us to use. If there was tunerpro XDF's, ADX's, and a flashing program, I would love to keep it jeep. I wouldn't care to convert to the (OBD2) JTEC to be able to tune. I currently still have the stock (OBD1) SBEC II ecm in my YJ, and honostly, I wouldnt mind being able to tune it, as I feel they are actually really good ecm's. Just being eprom based and encased inside the goo makes them a pain to work on.
But converting to the JTEC wouldn't be that bad. The ecm's and wiring harnesses are plentiful in the junkyards, plus most all the stock sensors would work, so the swap would be pretty easy.

Converting to the gm ecm, I will loose sequential injection and be batch fire instead. But I will gain the ability to run DIS by simply making and mounting a reluctor wheel.
So it looks like for now, the gm ecm is going to be the easiest and cheapest route, since I already have the hardware and software to tune them with. I'm planning on running a 1227727.

[1project2many]

Did you end up with a copy of D-Cal for SBEC? Have you tried it??
Turbonator and MPTune also exist:
http://www.boostbutton.com/turbonator_wiki/doku.php?id=turbonator_and_mptune


GMECM and SEFI is possible. GN ecm allows for six cyl SFI, DIS (not necessary), and uses MAF for faster tuning. Lotsa software available and lotsa help, even some custom code.

[JeepsAndGuns]

I did do a little searching on the matter, but it kinda seems like that tuning software is made for the turbo cars. I found a thread talking about the jeep ecm, but it appears it is all different than the car versions. If I understand what they are saying, it seems like the jeep ecm would need a different file or something to work with their software (kinda like a not having a XDF for tunerpro)
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?71712-94-Jeep-Cherokee-Tuning

Which service number and code mask GM ecm are you referring to? I would kinda like to stay OBD1 and chip ecm's so I can use my current equipment (autoprom)

[1project2many]

Many of the SFI Buicks are equipped with a C3. The early turbo cars use a 1226459, '86-'87 turbos get 1227148, while the NA versions use 1226461. There were a lot of support tools for the 7148.

It looks like quite a bit of work has already been done for the Jeep controllers. But it would take time to finish which I, alas, have not.

[34blazer]

Well this looks promising. But I'm not going to get too excited this time, I hope you don't take it the wrong way. A few people have claimed they can tune the JTEC and will share, but it seems they were all talk, and up and left. I would love to see a real tuning possibility with the JTEC, and possibly see some integrated knock support for those who would want to boost.

Welcome!

[NISANDA]

All this just sound great!, if it can be done...

[joepizuro]

Also, that I'm getting from my literature (attached) is that the 96-98 2.5/3.9/4.0/5.2/5.9 JTEC blank hardware part number is 05014152AA (V10 is 05014153AA), and from the couple binaries I have the code changes a bit across those years. FYI, 99+ is all over the place although 05018488AA is the most common for 5.2/5.9, but not used at all for the Jeeps. I think (?) it may reflect ECUs equipped with the factory anti-theft/IMMO vs the ones without.

Ivr got a 98 ram 2500 v10. Any ideas?

[34blazer]

See what I mean? People show up, say they can do it, then leave, never to be seen again. LOL

[mekkis]

I did it, but it was a clusterf*** of awkward, and I took ~1.5 year breaks from this place.

There are more affordable 28DIP to PLCC32 adapters to make a dual Ostrich setup work now. 96-98 "wrap around" "book style" JTEC is pretty easy to chip, the potted in jelly JTEC+ (and whatever the potted in hard jelly gold case WJ ECU is called) suck to deal with to the point I would not even try.

I'll cough up an un-passlocked version of my 97JTEC.xdf if anyone wants to dig through it and see how values are expressed.

[1project2many]

As a matter of curiousity I'd be interested.

[joepizuro]

I have SCT Advantage 3 coming in the mail... With that I'll be able to write tunes for my 98 ram v10 or any dodge vehicle... Just needs my SCT Flasher to put it on the vehicle.

[NISANDA]

SCT its a 1 licence per vehicle thing?

[joepizuro]

SCT its a 1 licence per vehicle thing?


The flasher is a 1 vehicle at a time flasher. It gets locked to a vehicle until it is loaded to stock file. It comes with some preset tunes specific to your vehicle and sct advantage allows you to write tune files

[mekkis]

Uh, yo.

[enlight22]

hi, guys.. just registered after following this whole JTEC reprogramming thread.. it sucks to see that good progress came to a grinding halt..
hopefully, i just may be able to help and get this show back on the road...

i noticed that the JTEC wiki isn't working - except for links to a couple pictures..

so, hopefully between here and speedfreaks, this can get worked out..

as far as this SCT company, it looks like they're just flashing calibrations, rather than the whole eeprom..
does anyone know if the pinout for this motorola z3 processor exists (or as least for this processors' maskset)
need to find out if this eeprom has the programming voltage and reset pins going to the processor.
(can we just get the eeprom to drop into programming, or does it need to be bootstrapped like the motorola ME7 / 7.2 / 7.5 ecus?)

i know a lot of the newer chrysler pcms' use that SCI bus specifically for programming - not sure if the older ones even have that bus...

so, if we have a pinout of the processor that's in there, and if the correct programming pins go from the eeprom to the processor, it's just a matter of finding all the calls to the port that controls those pins, and working backwards from there.
usually for 'security', a lot of these obdii programmable pcm / ecu's will use some completely screwed up sequence of commands to enter a programming mode..
GM uses a seed / key for security access
Subaru uses a pin that goes to B+ voltage
volvo actually uses the central electrical module to do all the dirty work - it puts all the modules in the car into a 'bootstrap' mode, all the data is sent to the CEM; which then decides if the data is good / checksummed correctly, then it will program the corresponding module, then reset all the modules in the car to take them out of 'bootstrap'
(BTW - you can just bootstrap the eeprom in a volvo ECU, and directly read / write to the ECU via a basic K-line connection)
The older nissan JTEC ecu's had commands you could send via diag line to read out the ecu - one byte at a time

I guess one obvious way to make this easier would be to record the argument between the PCM and a J2534 during a standard calibration update.

The maps, axis, and scaling information is a pretty straightforward thing to do. I don't understand some of these other posts by 'those in the know' about the stock PCM not having the 'resolution' to do this or that...
part of the formula that the pcm / ecu uses to calculate how long to fire the injectors is 'injector deadtime' - this is the value you use to change the size of the injector - you change that, and everything else on the fuel side gets scaled accordingly.

using a stock pcm / ecu, you actually have a very good amount of adjustment (plus all the factory safeguards) - oh, and for those with OBDII, when inspection time comes ALL the OBDII test calibration stuff is in there too... hell you can set it to run all your monitors at idle, in 5 minutes if you want.

I am completely hellbent on being able to reprogram this pcm....
it's a motorola processor - so BDM is a viable option - even to just 'watch' what the processor is doing

I understand (in a way) what the 'companies' are trying to do.. "I know something you don't know... unless you want to pay.." I understand they have overhead, development costs, marketing, and of course; since the only people who can really afford some of this 'tuning company' stuff, pretty much piss money, they need to make a hefty sum since only a few people will have enough money to buy...

Dilemma did a open-source project for SAABS - T5 suite, T7 suite and T8 Suite. sure, if you didn't have the technical knowledge to do it yourself, most of the higher-end cookie-cutter tunes from companies were between $120-$350. That is a much more realistic price for your average person to pay..

And, another reason this should be obtainable info - if the car companies have their way (a couple car companies are whining to congress) - vehicle pcm / ecu's may be soon covered under the DMCA....

if anyone has copies of the stuff that got posted to JTEC.INFO, it would be great to be able to get copies....

Even if this PCM needs to be bench-flashed with some type of harness, it really needs to be figured out!
I'm sick of having vehicles with ECU's that can't be screwed with! I just finished my Discovery I ecu.. there really was NO info on it out there - thankfully, it just used 2 socketed EPROMs..

jtec.info back online, sorry it took me so long to notice this, ive been away a long time. mediawiki auto update caused a skin failure

[JeepsAndGuns]

Uh, yo.

Without downloading them, are these tunerpro files?

[enlight22]

Without downloading them, are these tunerpro files?


the 2 .bins are the rom dumps i think i provided years and years ago, the other is his definition file for tuner pro. if i can find my socket jtec which i havent seen in like 10 years im going to try it out. otherwise i guess im going to build a new socketed jtec.

[enlight22]

mekkis this is awesome. If only i could find my socketed jtec. i havent seen it in 7 years. All we need now are some cool flags and maby some real time emulation.

[enlight22]

mekkis, have you got any notes if your process, or the disassembly, or anything about how you located these addresses or anything?

[mekkis]

mekkis, have you got any notes if your process, or the disassembly, or anything about how you located these addresses or anything?

It is located in this post some pages back. I made notes to this thread as I was laid up on the shop couch, sick, hashing out the .xdf

[Asylumwarp]

Anyone ever put a 411 ecm in a 98 ZJ with the jtec pcm? I'm tired of no tuning solutions, I have a bdm... I have successfully talked to 411 ecms thru bdm now. I don't see why I cant communicate with the jtec the same way. Mekkis, do you offer tuning for these cars? If I can pull the bin, do we have a completed xdf with timing tables? If I can pull a bin, I can write it too.

[darkcorp]

Hi, guys!

I live in Russia and build 4.6 stroker ('99 Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ).
I need to tune my JTEC PCM.
It has ab28f200 chip so I've unsoldered it and read the programm.
But PCM has film-like board and while tuning I'll need to soldered the chip several times. That will destroy the film.
There are some pads near the chip so how can I use them to reprogramm the chip?

11538

Thanks
Albert

[Montecarlodrag]

Anyone ever put a 411 ecm in a 98 ZJ with the jtec pcm? I'm tired of no tuning solutions, I have a bdm... I have successfully talked to 411 ecms thru bdm now. I don't see why I cant communicate with the jtec the same way. Mekkis, do you offer tuning for these cars? If I can pull the bin, do we have a completed xdf with timing tables? If I can pull a bin, I can write it too.
What do you use to read/write by BDM to 411 PCM's ??

[darkcorp]

I have bin file pulled from my wj 4.0 pcm. Pm me if needed.

[mekkis]

Hi, guys!

I live in Russia and build 4.6 stroker ('99 Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ).
I need to tune my JTEC PCM.
It has ab28f200 chip so I've unsoldered it and read the programm.
But PCM has film-like board and while tuning I'll need to soldered the chip several times. That will destroy the film.
There are some pads near the chip so how can I use them to reprogramm the chip?

11538

Thanks
Albert

A datasheet and a multimeter answers that.

Those pads alongside the flash are what the "instrumented" 96-98 JTECs daughterboards are attached to.

[2ss8]

Hi, guys!
I live in Russia and build 4.6 stroker ('99 Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ).
I need to tune my JTEC PCM.
It has ab28f200 chip so I've unsoldered it and read the programm.
But PCM has film-like board and while tuning I'll need to soldered the chip several times. That will destroy the film.
There are some pads near the chip so how can I use them to reprogramm the chip?
11538
Thanks
Albert



how do you edit the bin, what kind of software are you using ?

[34blazer]

mekkis, you still out there? Any updates to flashing these POS's? I still have the very basic XDF you posted a few years ago. Do you have a more defined xdf you are willing to share?

[darkcorp]

Guys!
Does anyone have definition file (xdf) for my ECU?

It seem like soon we will have a device to read/write/diag JTEC via OBD.

[34blazer]

Uh, yo.

Mekkis, any chance you have a more defined .xdf?

[mekkis]

Mekkis, any chance you have a more defined .xdf?

No, sorry.

[roughneck427]

This guy here http://sykedecutuning.com/store/index.php covers a lot of odd ball mopar stuff. I'm waiting on the laptop based interface to be release $25 credits to tune a vehicle

[34blazer]

No, sorry.


Wow, ok. Just lost interest?

[mekkis]

Wow, ok. Just lost interest?

Lost time, no longer a Jeep owner, etc. That's how life goes.

[csf2618]

hey guys you helped me a lot so im giving back here is a start ill send links and more info later its the standard part numbers for the two Motorola mcus which are protectively labeled12598

[jracing]

Hello all. I beg for your forgiveness about my ignorance. I have been studying for quite some time about Jtec programming and tuning. I am so new that i haven't been able to figure out what cable/software people are using to pull the bin from the pcm and wright to the pcm. I am knowledgeable in Bosch stuff and have several cables/systems but none have options for the jeep i am currently attempting to master. My goal is to clone a jeep pcm. Thanks for any help !!

[csf2618]

Hello all. I beg for your forgiveness about my ignorance. I have been studying for quite some time about Jtec programming and tuning. I am so new that i haven't been able to figure out what cable/software people are using to pull the bin from the pcm and wright to the pcm. I am knowledgeable in Bosch stuff and have several cables/systems but none have options for the jeep i am currently attempting to master. My goal is to clone a jeep pcm. Thanks for any help !!
hey so if you look at the inside of your ecm/pcm you will see two chips the main mcu runs a basic initialization code that pulls pretty much everything from these two chips check out how arduino read eeprom im working on decompiling to source rn cause i got a friend who needs some limters programed

[jracing]

is there a link or could you elaborate about how the arduino is used. I have some alien tech but it doesnt support this ECM chrysler P/N P56041746AD. I have a galletto and some other cheap cables. Thanks for the reply!!

[csf2618]

is there a link or could you elaborate about how the arduino is used. I have some alien tech but it doesnt support this ECM chrysler P/N P56041746AD. I have a galletto and some other cheap cables. Thanks for the reply!!
yeah i cant give a definate pinout or datasheet rightnow but ill send a link basically you use gpio pins to probe addresses sequentially and read the return then send the data back to pc over usb and reconstruct the binary data to a .bin with software and not necessary but imma try to recompile to assembly for the motorola/frescale mcu's cause i need to replace componants and need to know exact function and add a dont loose your licence buddy limiter

https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~prabal/teaching/eecs373-f10/readings/rom-eprom-eeprom-technology.pdf

https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/EEPROMRead

http://www.zoobab.com/arduino-as-a-bios-lpc-flasher

start here and lmk how it goes ill check back later
and email if you need calebf1996@gmail.com

[Playtoy_18]

This guy here http://sykedecutuning.com/store/index.php covers a lot of odd ball mopar stuff. I'm waiting on the laptop based interface to be release $25 credits to tune a vehicle

I’ve had my cable from syked for a few weeks now,so far only done an MDS delete on a 2011 but looks like it will work well.
Doesn’t he plan to fully support GM and Ford as well eventually?

[roughneck427]

i was able to flash a Jtec and a NGC3 with a modded .bin using the chrylser J2534 application

[1project2many]

Doesn’t he plan to fully support GM and Ford as well eventually?
This may not happen as expected.
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6173716/13/1/hp-tuners-llc-v-sykes-bonnett/

[Playtoy_18]

I thought Kevin has already had something filed regarding this though.
They’re claiming it’s a copy of hpt because the table names are the same,which is ridiculous because that means hpt/gm/efilive etc.. are all copying because they are pretty much the same?
A table is what it is,not much free range for naming from a technical standpoint regarding data correlation is there?
The other layout and maybe wording stuff is debatable maybe,but table names? That seemed funny to me when I read it.

[kur4o]

Does HPT play dirty and tries to kill competition or there is indeed an internal leak of hpt source code and sykes are making a reworked version of it.

It is absurd to have copywrite on table names. All tunerpro xdfs developers are in big trouble since they use identical table names.

[delcowizzid]

does anyone have a stock dodge ram srt10 bin file or a stock read with sct cable .need to return a tuner locked ecu to stock after the current tune melted some pistons badly

[mekkis]

does anyone have a stock dodge ram srt10 bin file or a stock read with sct cable .need to return a tuner locked ecu to stock after the current tune melted some pistons badly

Which?

[delcowizzid]

I'm just waiting on a pic of the ecu label to get the os number

[Fast355]

I thought Kevin has already had something filed regarding this though.
They’re claiming it’s a copy of hpt because the table names are the same,which is ridiculous because that means hpt/gm/efilive etc.. are all copying because they are pretty much the same?
A table is what it is,not much free range for naming from a technical standpoint regarding data correlation is there?
The other layout and maybe wording stuff is debatable maybe,but table names? That seemed funny to me when I read it.

Well by that logic HPT is a copy of SCT. I have both softwares. I was running my 06 Ram that I swapped from a 4.7 to a 5.7 on the 4.7 PCM I SCT tuned way back in 2010.

[darkcorp]

i was able to flash a Jtec and a NGC3 with a modded .bin using the chrylser J2534 application
Hi!
What "chrylser J2534 application" did you use to flash a Jtec?