95 Corvette 16181333 ECM Fan control

[Oysteinbno]

Hi. I'm a newbie in Tunercat and programming GM ECM's.
I have a 1995 Corvette LT1 with 4LL60E, that I've put in a 53 Suburban, and I would appreciate some help. I bought a standalone wiring from PCI conversion.
I had to remove the V.A.T.S before I could start the engine.
The fan came on after I started the engine, and stayed on. And I have some problems to start also. It needs som cranking before it starts.
I tried to change the setting for the fans, but now I get DTM on the fan control. ( MALF 77: Fan 1 Fault, and MALF 78: Fan 2 Fault)
I've tried to reprogram the ECM to the first file I read out from the ECM, but I still get this Fan fault.

Any ideas anyone?

Oystein B

[dave w]

:welcome:

EagleMark has posted information on the 16181333 PCM here:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?335-16188051-and-16181333-PCM-Information-EE-EEB

I've used both TunerPro and TunerCats, most members here use TunerPro. If you post the file you read from the PCM, I can use my TunerCats to see if there is anything I can help with.

dave w

[EagleMark]

Sounds like a wiring issue?

77 Cooling fan (http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=cooling+fan) relay #1 control potential voltage at PCM was incorrect for 26 seconds.
78 Cooling fan relay #2 and #3 control potential voltage at PCM was incorrect for 26 seconds.

[Oysteinbno]

I have attached the files I sendt to the ECU
If I ground the fan-relay with an other wire, the fan starts..
.

[EagleMark]

What bin did you start with?

I compared your bin to a 1995 Corvette 4L60E bin and there was over 4000 differences, most of which are undefined! Meaning changes were made to things that do not have a Paremeter to change them. This is not good... I would start with a new bin. Attched is the one I used to compare.

[dave w]

I've looked at the fan programming in the 53 Suburban_vlifter in TunerCats. It looks like to me, the fans are controlled by engine oil temperature and AC pressure. It's my understanding that the PCM will supply a Ground to the fan 1 / fan 2 relays. I'm wondering about the fan wiring in the PCI wiring harness and how the oil temperature and AC pressure sensors are connected? I don't have enough information to know why the fans are always on. Are the fans on because of the PCI wiring harness is other than the factory wiring? Are the fan sensors not correct or correctly wired to the oil temperature sensor AC pressure sensors? Maybe the PCM fan programming needs to be changed for the fan sensors?

Is it possible PCI has schematics for the conversion harness online somewhere? Maybe PCI provided schematics that could be scanned to a .pdf file and posted here at gearhead-efi.com?

dave w

[Oysteinbno]

The wiring harness doesn't support either AC,oil temperature and air pump. It's only for the minimum that the engine needs to work.

And if I understand you right, I can use your atached file, modify it and program my ECM?


tried to attach the pdf file from psiconversion, but it's too big. It can be found here. : http://psiconversion.com/tech_articles.html And it is the top one ( HAR-1005, -1006)

Oystein B

[EagleMark]

Yes you can use the bin I attached with TunerCat. I have no ides how your bin even works with that many undefined changes? Although spark and fuel tables look to be accurate?

You can also get an ADX file from link above to datalog with TunerPro RT.

Fan control is from Coolant tempreture. There are options to enable one fan when AC is on. If the harness was made for 2 fan control the wiring should be simple as it is this way from factory on most LT1 engines and bins. Some bins like Caprice etc... only have one electric fan.

You have not mentioned what Check Engine Light is doing? It should come on, blink and stay on when key is on. Then turn off when engine is running. One sure fire sign your in limp home mode is fans on!

[RobertISaar]

that many undefined changes, i would look at where the changes are, sounds like algorithm changes rather than calibration.

[EagleMark]

Ah! That makes sense as to why tables still look correct.

This would only happen on flash based bins correct? Never saw this on chips...

[RobertISaar]

it happens with both the FLASH PROMs and the EPROM stuff. for $8D, look at the differences between AUJP and ANHT. that's one popular example i can think of.

$6D, $88, $A1 all have a couple of algorithm variants. the P66 V6 stuff also has 4 versions of the algorithm that i have found as well.

[dave w]

I'll read through the .pdf and get back later.

dave w

[dave w]

I'll read through the .pdf and get back later.

dave w

From the .pdf

In stock configuration Fan #1 will come ON at 226F and go OFF at 221F
Fan #2 willcome ON at 235F and go OFF at 230F.
(PCM reprogramming is available through PSI toalter fan temperatures).


Green Fan 1 Ground (Optional) Ground Side of Customer Supplied Fan 1 Relay
Dk Blue Fan 2 Ground (Optional) Ground Side of CustomerSupplied Fan 2 Relay

So I'm thinking maybe the Green fan wire and Dark Blue (Dk Blue) fan wire are not correctly wired to the fan relays your using?

Can you post your fan wiring schematics? Maybe the relay coil is grounded all the time, instead of the Green fan wire / DK Blue fan wires providing ground the fan relays? Maybe you can let us know what kind of fan relays your using? I'd like to make sure the fan relays are wired correctly, before making changes to the .bin file programming.

dave w

[Oysteinbno]

I'm using an ordinary light relay. And the ground to the relay is from the green wire.
The fan itself is connected to pin 30 for power and direct to ground.

Oystein

[dave w]

I'm using an ordinary light relay. And the ground to the relay is from the green wire.
The fan itself is connected to pin 30 for power and direct to ground.

Oystein

The way I'm thinking I would wire the fan relay: I would have pin 30 "Battery +" all the time (no other wires going to pin 30 except "Battery +"). I would send 12 volts from the ignition switch to pin 86 when the ignition switch is in the "ON" position (I would NOT connect pin 30 and pin 86 like the drawing posted is showing). I would connect pin 85 like the posted drawing shows, green wire from the PCM. I would connect pin 87 to the cooling fan "+" wire and connect the cooling fan "-" wire to ground or "Battery -". When the cooling fan is wired like I descrbe, the only way the cooling fan will run is when the ignition switch is in the "ON" position, and the PCM green wire is sending ground to relay pin 85.

dave w

[dave w]

The TunerCats fan control screen shot, from the above .bin.

dave w

[Oysteinbno]

I've wired the relay the way you described it. But it didn't help in any way.
Then I programmed the ECU with the 95 Corvette LT1 4L60E 1008.bin‎ (http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=2995&d=1347451316). Did some changes in the bin. I don't want all the MALF codes because of the EGR, and air pump
When I started up after reprogramming, the fan started right up again. Got an MALF 43, and made the changes to the bin to remove this. Reprogrammed the ECU and the fan did not start and instead I got the Fan MALF again.
Is there a known problem about reprogramming the ECU within 10 minutes or?

Oystein B

[dave w]

I'm thinking the green and dark blue wires are sending ground to the fan relays as soon as the ignition switch is turned on. I just don't know why.dave w

[Oysteinbno]

No it doesn't send ground until the engine starts.. I'l try to reprogram the ECU once more, and see what happends.

[EagleMark]

The TunerCats fan control screen shot, from the above .bin.

dave wNow I see why you were referring to Fan Controls by Oil Temp! Just looked at TunerPro definition and it to says Oil Temp. I'd swear they are wrong and this is based on coolant Temp not Oil Temp... Oil temp would never get that hot before engine overheats at say cold start and AC on? Just does not make sense to be based off Oil Temp for Coolant temp fans?


I've wired the relay the way you described it. But it didn't help in any way.
Then I programmed the ECU with the 95 Corvette LT1 4L60E 1008.bin‎ (http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/attachment.php?attachmentid=2995&d=1347451316). Did some changes in the bin. I don't want all the MALF codes because of the EGR, and air pump
When I started up after reprogramming, the fan started right up again. Got an MALF 43, and made the changes to the bin to remove this. Reprogrammed the ECU and the fan did not start and instead I got the Fan MALF again.
Is there a known problem about reprogramming the ECU within 10 minutes or?

Oystein BNo. There is a slight delay of PCM powering off at Key Off but it's only a few seconds.

BUT! Error Code 43 is a known issue and not something that should be turned off unless your not running a knock sensor. Code 43 puts these PCM in limp home mode and answers why your fans are on. Fans come on during Limp Home Mode in these PCMs. We've been through this before. Turning off the error code does not disable any circuit. It just turns off the error code. EGR, Air and Knock have to be disabled by changing Enable parameters.

You never answered what Check Engine Light was doing? IIRC in a data log with TunerPro ADX file it will tell if PCM is operating in LHM.

[Oysteinbno]

Check engine light goes on when I turn on ignition. When I start, the light goes off. and after a little while it comes on again.
When I use Datamaster to log, the following MALF is red:
code 26, 27, 29, 43
And datamaster show that there is knock count from the knock sensor.
Is my ECU fuc...t up??

[EagleMark]

There is a real possibility you have a faulty PCM!

Error 26 "26 ECM detected the wrong potential voltage at the #1 quad-driver module circuit for 20 seconds." I beleive is for Air. Disable Air by setting enable temp to not come on.

Error 27 "27 ECM detected the wrong potential voltage at the #2 quad-driver module circuit for 3 seconds." I beleive is for EGR. disable EGR by enable temp to not come on.

Error 29 "29 Secondary air injection pump circuit voltage was wrong for 26 seconds." Again disable air.

Error 43... have to diagnose knock circuit. Disabling "Knock Retard Enable Coolant Temp. " to not come on may help for now.

[Oysteinbno]

I'm starting to wonder if the wiring I bought is no good.
I drove the Corvette before I took the engine from it, and the only problem I had then were one faulty O2 sensor.
I made the changes described above, and reprogrammed the ECU. Now I only have MALF 43, and 97 from datamaster. When I use TunerPro RT I got one MALF more, #76.
And the fan still start when the engine start.
Is there any difference between 16181333 and the16188051 ?

And I'm realy gratefull for the help I'm recieving here. :thumbsup:

Oystein B

[EagleMark]

Error 97 is from VSS I beleive... Error 76 is voltage high. Is voltage high? Remove power or clear codes in PCM.

94 and 95 PCMs do have wiring differences do to auto tranny PWM TCC in trans change. Your bin has error 83 enabled so I'm guessing it is a 95 and OK. I've swapped the 2 PCM numbers in manual trans and beleive they are the same?

We chased a error code 43 once and never did find it or it was not reported back. New and tested knock sensors (2 on caprice) wiring ohmed, PCM replaced as well as knock module..
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?928-Tuning-out-Knock-Sensors-to-get-rid-of-code-43-in-my-95-LT1

Are the knock counts your getting correct? Or just constant?

[Oysteinbno]

If I look at two different log files from DataMaster, the knock count is not the same, so it's not constant.
The engine is from a 96 corvette with 4L60E transmission.
The alternator is charging at 14,7 on idle speed.

[dave w]

I'm flying today, so I'm limited on what I can help with.dave w

[Oysteinbno]

Probably a stupid question , but how can I see if the ECU is in limp home mode?

[EagleMark]

Check Engine Light on.

In TunerPro ADX file is Code 43a,c and d any of these will cause LHM.

Also BLM will be locked at 128.

[Oysteinbno]

Check Engine Light on.

In TunerPro ADX file is Code 43a,c and d any of these will cause LHM.

Also BLM will be locked at 128.

Ok. I've tested some more.. I've meassured the Knock sensor. It's 3903 Ohm from sensor to ground. The voltage is at the cable 4.97 volts. When I start the engine, the Check Engine light comes on and the fan starts. BLM is locked at 128.
If I use a hammer and knock the engine block the knock counter increases...
I have absolute no clue what'swrong here...
I have atached a log file.

[EagleMark]

Pretty easy first issue! Right O2 sensor not ready = Open Loop.

Still have error 76 voltage high long term? You had 14.7 at idle which is a little high for idle but OK. Does it go up after that? Clear codes...

Does the VSS work? I think the error 97 is this issue, now it may be a tranny difference from 1996 trans to 1995 PCM?

Your getting some knock counts\ even with the error 43, now I wonder if this could be a 1 or 2 knock sensor issue? The Caprice LT1 has 2 knock sensors and F or Y body only has 1... I think? I've never looked into what differences this has made in PCM or knock module? Just from memroy it's all the same?

[Oysteinbno]

I'll change the O2 sensor.
I meassure 14.4/14.5 volts at idle speed now from the alternator.
The VSS works, because my speedo woorks...
I tried to program the ECU with my original file I downloaded out from the ECU the first time I connected.
But I still get these errors. Can it be some issues with the PCM_EE file I use??

[EagleMark]

I don't think so. The errors are also in TP logs. But reflashing the PCM may not clear codes. Kill power to PCM by disconnecting battery or fuse for a minute. Or use Clear Codes Command in TP. Acquisition, Edit Definition and in Connection Commands choose Clear Codes Data. Then Connect and it will clear codes. Have to change back to Engine Connect when done. There is also trans Connect and Trans Data in there.

Doesn't DataMaster have a Clear Codes?

96lt4c4 says to disable Code 43 and it will disable... but with one non responsive O2 sensor you'll still be Open Loop for now.

There is also a Scaler for "Vss Diagnostic Enable Min RPM" Raise it and the error 97 should not reoccur.

I can't even find my latest $EE ADX since my laptop crash? All I have is V3.2 and I'm sure I had more work done to XDF and ADX then what I have... If anyone has them?

[RobertISaar]

Acquisition, Edit Definition and in Connection Commands choose Clear Codes Data. Then Connect and it will clear codes. Have to change back to Engine Connect when done.

that's kind of an odd way to do it...

right-click the are where the time scrolling bar is, select "data acquisition send command" and you'll be able to send stuff whenever you want. if the command you want to use doesn't show up, go into the ADX editor, find the send or macro command you want to use and check which "manually sendable" boxes you need.

[EagleMark]

If you right click the tool bars and have that checked (check all tool bars) it will be there. But on the old ADX I have it was not set in the Value so has to be done manually...

[EagleMark]

Can't beleive I lost my newest ADX and XDF??? :mad1:

May get them back when I receive my recovery disk... I hadn't uploaded them to $EE thread yet but think I gave them out...

anyone have later versions?

[Oysteinbno]

Doesn't DataMaster have a Clear Codes?

96lt4c4 says to disable Code 43 and it will disable... but with one non responsive O2 sensor you'll still be Open Loop for now.

There is also a Scaler for "Vss Diagnostic Enable Min RPM" Raise it and the error 97 should not reoccur.

Datamaster clear codes. But they come back within 5 seconds.
If I disable code 43 the fan don't start, but I can use a ordinary switch to start the fan.
A new O2 sensor is ordered from Ebay. But since I live in Norway it will take a couple of weeks for me to test it.
I'm also thinking of buying a new ECU. And if I understand this right, I can buy anyone labeled 16181333 or 16188051?
The harness I bought uses a single connector coil ( from 96-97) instead of the original 95 with 2 connections. I've read the pinout and schematics for both 94/95 and 96/97 and there are no differences from the ECU conections as far as I can see.
Starting to regret I didn't buy the harness from Painless Wiring instead of the one from PSIConversion.... :(

[EagleMark]

If they come back they are still there.

Disabling code 43 and fans go off is good. they should be off when cold. thius proves it was in LHM.

Not sure how the one plug would work on a LT1 PCM that has 4 plugs? Got a picture?

[Oysteinbno]

No, I don't have a picture. But the harness I bought is with the right plug for this coil. It's supposed to be a better coil.
If I'm going to buy a new PCM, can I buy a 16188051? It's the same PCM to the 4.3 and 5.7 engines? Only the programming that is the difference??

When I disable code 43 I get the fan errors. But if I'm using a switch to operate the fan, I can disable those codes too.

[EagleMark]

4.3 or 5.7 is the same.

But something does not sound right if 43 is disabled and causes fan error? You sure the wiring is correct?

[Oysteinbno]

Yes I sure the wiring is correct.
When code 43 is enabled the fan starts when the engine code light comes on. And I never get fan error.
The strange thing however is that fan error doesn't appear if I don't connect the wire to the relay.. when code 43 is disabled