Running used Accel DFI setup with a 7427

[woody80z28]

I found a deal on a used (incomplete) Accel setup that is basically just TB, manifold, rails & injectors. However, it's a 1000cfm TB and a nice manifold, so I'd like to install it on the Camaro. The Accel wiring harness and ECM is $1700! So I'd like to run it $OD with a 7427 since I'm already familiar with it in my truck.

Now, what would be the best way to get a baseline tune on a truck ECM with a fairly healthy engine? Wiring it up doesn't seem like it would be too bad, but starting from scratch on a tune with a healthy camshaft sounds daunting...

[1project2many]

Can't you buy the intake plus TB for less than $1700????

[woody80z28]

Yes. The components he has available are only $800. That's for the manifold, TB, rails & injectors. Similar setup from Edelbrock with no injectors is $830. This also has a distributor with it.

I know I can build a harness and run a 7427 for cheap...well under the $1700 for the Accel stuff. So I just need to get it sorted out with a base tune that will run the car and go from there. That's where I think the difficulty will be.

[1project2many]

If you have a working cal for the 7427 then you're well on your way. You'll want to do a "pfi mod" to the memcal. Then adjust your injector flow and corrections and maybe scale AE down some. After that its trial and error.

[PJG1173]

I am in the process of converting the SBC in my toyota to EFI. as a base line I took the advance I was running carbed and put that in a $0D bin. once it cranked i played with the idle ve till it would idle on its own, then I went and checked/set base timing, IAC steps, etc from there. it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. it took me all of 20 min to get it to idle with my base tune. of course that was after 1.5 hrs troubleshooting mistakes I made in the wire harness...

[woody80z28]

Dude sold the stuff out from under me...so it's a no-go. Sucks! I'll have to bite the bullet at some point and order brand new stuff. But - that's another project for another day!

[1project2many]

Sorry to hear that. Not cool. Keep watching C-list and something might show up.

$0D works very hard to run well even when the cal is not right.

[woody80z28]

Well, the guy sold the setup along with a bunch of other parts to another guy who owns a hot rod shop. I put a wanted ad on a few forums and found several good deals out there. Ended up getting the very same Accel setup from the 2nd owner for $1000 - including ECM and harness with instructions, etc. So I'm going to convert it with all the Accel software first. If I don't like it I can always go OBD1. The Accel is nice in that it can run Alpha1 with the MAP reading blended with the TPS for fueling. Should help with an aggressive cam.

I also bought aluminum AFR heads to run the Accel manifold (my current Vortecs will not work) and put the complete 355 up for sale carb to pan. In reality, it runs great as-is (aside from being cold-blooded) and if all I'm gonna reuse is the short block...why not go with a new forged 421ci setup? haha Skip White is selling machined Dart SHP blocks with forged internals for $3000. That's tough to pass up.

[woody80z28]

The Accel kit came in today, I'm psyched. Everything looks good. And my low-pro Eddy TB linkage clears the rails with no spacer. (Sold off the shiny one...I don't like shiny). Drop base air cleaner also clears everything fine. I had to use a 1" spacer on the drop base to clear my fuel inlet on the carb, and the TB is 3/4" shorter than the carb, so I might even end up with more hood clearance with the single plane manifold than I had with the air gap! Bye bye stupid carburetor.
http://www.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_eficonversion/508085eb25a6b/IMG_7578JPG_Thumbnail1.jpg
http://www.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_eficonversion/508085fda4f94/IMG_7585JPG_Thumbnail1.jpg
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http://www.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_eficonversion/50808627e555b/IMG_7598JPG_Thumbnail1.jpg

Current setup with the airgap & carb:
http://www.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_currentpics/5027227b0ce4c/IMG_7460JPG_Thumbnail1.jpg

Unfortunately the AFR heads were not the new Eliminators, they were the old style. But I got a good enough deal on them that I got my money back after I sold them. Tony at AFR told me the older style would surrender about 30hp to the Eliminators on a 500hp engine. I was figuring maybe 450hp out of my 355, and it proabably would have been more like 430. Not even worth it when I'm making 400 now.

So, since I'm in the market for new heads and 195s don't really cost any less than 210s or 220s...a 421ci with a nice roller cam and AFR Eliminators should be an easy 550-575hp. Could even crack 600 if I get a little crazy with the cam & compression.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-CHEVY-421-COMPLETE-SHORT-BLOCK-KIT-FULLY-FORGED-CRANK-RODS-PISTONS-/330626949771?forcev4exp=true&forceRpt=true
http://www.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_383stuff/5068f18a56308/IMG_7531JPG_Thumbnail1.jpg
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http://www.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_383stuff/5068f18052d7e/IMG_7518JPG_Thumbnail1.jpg
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab168/skipwhite/ROB/TEST.jpg

[woody80z28]

Sold the Accel manifold & rails and bought a Hurricane manifold & rails. (Same carb height, but longer runners for better midrange.) It's a ProComp and the casting kinda looks like crap, but I'll clean it up. Came with ugly red anodized rails, but that's nothing a little oven cleaner can't fix. Photoshopped them black and I like the look.

Air cleaner height is actually exactly the same as the current AirGap since the TB is shorter and spacer is not needed. I've got 1" to play with to the cowl.

http://www.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_eficonversion/5091b710f2014/IMG_7642JPG_Thumbnail1.jpg
http://www.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_eficonversion/5091b74261b2d/IMG_7653JPG_Thumbnail1.jpg
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http://www.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_eficonversion/50987e134780e/IMG_7828JPG_Thumbnail1.jpg

[jameslleary]

Skip White is "Da Bomb!"
Got a really nice small cap EFI distributor from them.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Casting inside my edelbrock pro flow efi intake looked simillar to yours. I cleaned mine up a bit before I installed it.
Looks like a pretty nice intake.

[woody80z28]

Unfortunately the 421 does not look probable. I was hoping to sell the 400hp 355 for $2000...but am only getting offers in the $1000 range. The 421 will cost another $3500 altogether vs the 355, but I can build my spare 4-bolt 350 block as a 383 for about $2000. Cost of the EFI & heads is about $2500 no matter what short block they end up on. So that may be the route I go. 500hp won't be as fun as 575, but building the 383 is probably still a better bang for the buck than dropping the heads & EFI on my 355.

I'm figuring:
450hp 355 for $2500
500hp 383 for $3500 ($4500 - $1000 selling the 355)
575hp 421 for $5000 ($6000 - $1000 selling the 355)

[JeepsAndGuns]

Something I have learned from personal experiance, dont settle for less than what you want. Just wait a little longer, save up the extra money and get exactly what you want. If you dont, you will regret it.
If you just go ahead and do it exactly how you want it, it may take a little longer, but in the end you will be happier.

[woody80z28]

After a little playing with the Accel software I am less than impressed. It doesn't seem to be as thorough as the OEM stuff. I may need to get some pointers from an Accel expert. Otherwise I'll end up converting it to a 7427.

On a related note...how much cam have any of you been able to run with speed density? I know the more cam, the more issues with MAP & O2 readings...and most go MAF these days.

[gregs78cam]

With the Dual TBI:
Advertised Duration @ 0.006 - 270/280
Dur. @ .050 - 219/224
Lift @ Valve - .526/.525
106 Intake Center Line, 110 Lobe Separation

I would think with the better fuel control of MPFI and an Open Loop Idle, you could go a bit bigger pretty easily.

[woody80z28]

Wow, that's definitely on the low side for a 383. Just got a 234/238 cam with a short block I bought. Little bit bigger than the one in my 355, so I'm guessing 12" of vacuum or so. 113lsa, .575/.589 lift...so I'm going to see if I can get away with it. How much vacuum does your cam produce?

Sold the 355 to a fellow NastyZ28'er. Glad to see it headed for the fenders of another Camaro! Yanked it this weekend and dropped in my spare 350 block for safe keeping of all the accessories, etc. Cars take up a lot less room assembled than apart and I have the Beretta to work on this winter. Mocked up the EFI manifold and the hood clearance is good to go, even with a small spacer.

I also bought a complete forged 383 short block from another Nasty member that comes with a roller cam that's about perfect for my setup. And some AFR 195 Eliminators from another member. Thank you NastyZ28 swap meet! Guessing about 500hp all said & done. Sold my 355 for $1700 and total cost of the built 383 with EFI will be about $4000. Not a bad upgrade for $2300. Cold-blooded 400hp carbed 2-bolt 350 with a stock bottom end and iron heads to a 4-bolt 383 with all forged internals, roller cam, aluminum heads & EFI.

http://www.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_enginefuel/50ab0b4be64d4/IMG_7857JPG_Thumbnail1.jpg
http://www.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_enginefuel/50ab0b5140ff5/IMG_7860JPG_Thumbnail1.jpg
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[1project2many]

I love that manifold but I am not happy with those photos. There is far too much dust on that Z24. ;)

How much cam with SD??? Hahaha.... question of the day. I've had small lift factory '60s and '70s cams that run like poo (fuel smell in exhaust, don't want to clean up at any settings) and late rollers with big lift that run great. One of the more recent ones I've tuned just upgraded his 350 from the Lingenfelter 219 superram cam (http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=L210035087&Category_Code=C30&Store_Code=LPE) to something even larger supplied by Howard's. The LT4 HOT cam in the Chevelle was extremely easy to tune even at .525" thanks to zero overlap. There are other approaches that can work, too. When I built the 302 in my '57 back in '91 the "pros" told me the 350 hp 327 cam I was using was a '60s design that wouldn't work well with TBI. By keeping ports and valves small, and by using the crossfire intake (small ports, large plenum) I can idle that thing down so low it sounds like a stocker from '57. But that's an economy engine, not a power engine. For you the easiest way to stay out of trouble is to keep overlap small to minimize positive pressure waves in the intake manifold. Look for aggressive large lift roller cams while keeping overlap small. The good cam grinders today are well aware of what can work with a computer and places like Comp and Lunati want you to be successful so it's not bad if you use their recommendations.

[woody80z28]

Well, the Accel is supposed to work better with low vacuum than the GM stuff according to the guy I talked to, so I'm going to start with the free cam that came with the 383 short block. Picked it up the other day, she looks pretty. Makes me want to do it all this winter, but I committed to getting the Beretta done this winter. Going to work on the Camaro in the spring/summer/fall...whenever I get the time.

http://www.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_efi383/50bc0275c29bc/IMG_7879JPG_Thumbnail1.jpg
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