real time tuning with tuner pro

[sachem]

Good afternoon all,
Maybe I'm missing something, but, what hardware do I need to tune my LS PCM in real time. If I connect with am ELM device, I can't seem to get real time info on any of the tables.
Getting frustrated. Not getting it, everything I read seems to confuse me more. Any help is welcomed.
Thanks
Tom

[steveo]

you can't.

not at all.

not with tunerpro,and not with any stock LS ecm

tunerpro is quite old and realtime tuning with it is done with emulators, this applies to 1980s and early 1990s ECMs only.

some guys at road runner made a crazy emulator for it but it does require a custom ECM with some stuff soldered to it and i don't think it works with tunerpro

commercial guys have custom operating systems with realtime tuning, though. but it does require that custom OS, and tunerpro wont help you with that

[ralmo94]

I know HP tuners has a custom operating system that allows Real Time Tuning, for the 2156 OS.
Not Tuner Pro, but how IT works is you make changes to either spark map or ve tables, then changes are not recorded in tune. After turning session. You have to make changes to your tuning file and re-flash.
That's what I know of.

[sachem]

Damn, that stinks, but that's also what I thought. So I wasted all my time re-pinning and re-wiring the OE ECM for nothing? Guess I'll have to change tables re-flash and see how it goes. Thanks for the reply Steveo and Ralmo94.

[kur4o]

Moates roadrunner can do the trick. But you will be 2k+ off to get it started.

[steveo]

Damn, that stinks, but that's also what I thought. So I wasted all my time re-pinning and re-wiring the OE ECM for nothing? Guess I'll have to change tables re-flash and see how it goes. Thanks for the reply Steveo and Ralmo94.

it's convenient for sure, but 99% of tunes are not done with realtime tuning. it just takes a bit longer. you still have to do the same work.

[ralmo94]

I can't seem to get real time info on any of the tables.
Any help is welcomed.
Tom
TOM,
By "getting info" did you mean data logging?
That is completely different than real time tuning.

Just re read your first post and thought we may have a misunderstanding.
What are you working on?

[sachem]

TOM,
By "getting info" did you mean data logging?
That is completely different than real time tuning.

Just re read your first post and thought we may have a misunderstanding.
What are you working on?


TOM,
By "getting info" did you mean data logging?
That is completely different than real time tuning.


Just re read your first post and thought we may have a misunderstanding.
What are you working on?


Hello ralmo94, yes, data logging is one. By live info on the tables, I meant, if I open the spark table, what range of cells am I in. Same with MAF and VE. I want to see what cells I am operating in live, so that I could figure out where to make changes. How do I find Injector duty cycle, commanded AFR vs requested AFR, how to get a histogram, build a VE table... things like that, so I can begin the tuning process. I have read many posts on many forums and watched tons of videos on YouTube..but a lot of forum replies are very vague or not in depth enough. Same with videos, they move too fast and don't really explain how and why it's done. What should be done first, second etc, as far as MAF tuning, timing and stuff like that. As for "live tuning", I wanted to be able to input changes on the fly and verify the results are going in the right direction, but I now know it can't be done. Maybe asking too much, but if I don't know where to start, how do I begin. As always, I appreciate all who take the time to reply. Anything posted is valuable information.
If needed, I have a LS PCM 12592618 OS - 12587603 in a 67 Chevelle controlling a 2005 6.0l DBW


Thanks
Tom

[MO LS Noobie]

You might try different .bin that gets you close. You are welcome to modify mine to suit your needs. Feedback is always welcome. I have an 05 LQ9, mild cam in '99 Denali, 4L60, 4x4. 603 OS, DBW, lean cruise enabled. Not perfect, but getting close. Different .xdf files give you access to different parameters. Only problem left is APP pedal travel. 50% on pedal = 100% on throttle blade. Data matches actual results, no codes, pedal is just touchy, after half throttle it stays at same APP, it is as if it reaches the end of travel and the pedal continues til it reaches the stop. blade stay at WOT. Have fun.

[ralmo94]

Hello ralmo94, yes, data logging is one. By live info on the tables, I meant, if I open the spark table, what range of cells am I in. Same with MAF and VE. I want to see what cells I am operating in live, so that I could figure out where to make changes. How do I find Injector duty cycle, commanded AFR vs requested AFR, how to get a histogram, build a VE table... things like that, so I can begin the tuning process. I have read many posts on many forums and watched tons of videos on YouTube..but a lot of forum replies are very vague or not in depth enough. Same with videos, they move too fast and don't really explain how and why it's done. What should be done first, second etc, as far as MAF tuning, timing and stuff like that. As for "live tuning", I wanted to be able to input changes on the fly and verify the results are going in the right direction, but I now know it can't be done. Maybe asking too much, but if I don't know where to start, how do I begin. As always, I appreciate all who take the time to reply. Anything posted is valuable information.
If needed, I have a LS PCM 12592618 OS - 12587603 in a 67 Chevelle controlling a 2005 6.0l DBW


Thanks
Tom

There is a feature called info tracing, wear as you are logging the car, you have say, your spark advance map up, and it will have a circle float around the map showing what cells it's reading to produce the spark advance. I messed with it once in $0D, but don't remember the details for getting it set up.
As for the history tables, that would be your ADX file that is required to data log with tuner pro.
History tables can be created modded or whatever, but you need an ADX. As far as I know there is not one available for specific OS's on p01, p59's? I remember seeing a generic obd2 one on hear somewhere.
Universal Patcher also has a data logger though that doesn't require an ADX.
Hope that helps you

[sachem]

Thank you MO LS Noobie, I will load it and try it. I'll let you know the results

[sachem]

What version of universal patcher?

[MO LS Noobie]

UP 0_0_16_43,

[ralmo94]

What version of universal patcher?

The full latest version is updated on the first post of the thread

[sachem]

MO LS Noobie,
I loaded your bin file and I couldn't get the car to idle, loading with fuel. I am having a sort of similar problem with my tune.. It seems to run very rich. The STFT's are at 129 both sides, but more so on bank 1. The fumes make your eyes water. I checked high and low for vacuum leaks and none. Pinched the booster hose, still no good. If I don't have a vacuum leak,where else would I look? What tables might need adjusting. I have the 8.1L marine injectors and I can't find any data on them. I did not pull them out yet to check their operation with an injector tester to check the spray pattern and to see if they may be leaking, but that would cause the pcm to pull fuel. I changed them because 4 of my stock injector were bad, no fuel flow when triggered. Any ideas?

[ralmo94]

If you have different injectors than stock that needs to be addressed before anything else.
The main thing you need to know is lb per hr at the fuel pressure you are running.
Are the marine injectors the same as the 8.1 truck injectors? If so that would give something to go off of.

[MO LS Noobie]

You need to start with a baseline. 128 is actually 0% trim on earlier systems. Disconnect battery cables and jumper the cables together for 10 minutes. This will clear adaptives and eliminate the possibility of the software getting locked up. What fuel pressure are you running? What is the part number of your injectors? Key on, engine off, MAP and BARO should be the same, I suspect the map is off. ECT (coolant temp) and Ambient temp should be the same before starting, I suspect ECT is low. If it is OK, unplug the MAF (if used) and both oxygen sensors. This will keep everything at baseline. Then start engine and see if it is still rich. If it is, fuel pressure is high, injector flow too much, or .bin needs adjusted. If .bin need adjusted, look at injector flow rates. Spark plugs should look sooty if it is rich. Make sure your ignition is all correct. Good luck.

[ralmo94]

You need to start with a baseline. 128 is actually 0% trim on earlier systems. Disconnect battery cables and jumper the cables together for 10 minutes. This will clear adaptives and eliminate the possibility of the software getting locked up. What fuel pressure are you running? What is the part number of your injectors? Key on, engine off, MAP and BARO should be the same, I suspect the map is off. ECT (coolant temp) and Ambient temp should be the same before starting, I suspect ECT is low. If it is OK, unplug the MAF (if used) and both oxygen sensors. This will keep everything at baseline. Then start engine and see if it is still rich. If it is, fuel pressure is high, injector flow too much, or .bin needs adjusted. If .bin need adjusted, look at injector flow rates. Spark plugs should look sooty if it is rich. Make sure your ignition is all correct. Good luck.

I thought this was an 0411? P01?
They are percent 0 being no trim. Are we talking about a 128 BLM system?
Did I get lost?

[MO LS Noobie]

I thought this was an 0411? P01?
They are percent 0 being no trim. Are we talking about a 128 BLM system?
Did I get lost?

You are correct with the Block Learn system, with both sides "stuck on 129" I thought that might be an issue, sorry. Disregard the 128 reference

[sachem]

If you have different injectors than stock that needs to be addressed before anything else.
The main thing you need to know is lb per hr at the fuel pressure you are running.
Are the marine injectors the same as the 8.1 truck injectors? If so that would give something to go off of.

I believe they are the same as the 8.1 truck injector. The pump is a 58lb. Self regulated pump, but I am seeing 62lbs at the rail. I have a P059 ecm. As for the plugs and baseline readings, I will have to check them maybe tomorrow when I get home from work. I will post the results and I will disconnect the MAF, O2 and see what happens. I also think the injector settings may need tweaking, but I don't see the data anywhere.
I will post the results ASAP.

[ralmo94]

Should be able to pull injector settings from a 8.1 truck bin.

[ralmo94]

Look at the thread I found on performance trucks regarding injectors.



https://www.performancetrucks.net/forums/gm-engine-exhaust-performance-21/flow-rate-8-1-injectors-344873/

Look at posts 7, 9 & the last one.

[MO LS Noobie]

Using the "12587603 complete XDF" injector settings parameter, injector flow rate B4001, need to set gm/sec (get conversion from "https://www.injectorrx.com/fuel-injector-cleaning-and-flow-testing-service/fuel-injectors/injector-calculators/convert-lb-per-hr-cc-min/")