1616825 tuning for 383

[Texoma]

I’m currently working on what will pretty much be a clone of the gm ht 383, 64cc vortec heads, same cam as the ht383 and ramjet 350, should be below 9.3:1 compression with the pistons I will be using. This will be going in a 93 Yukon 4wd with 3.42 gears and a 4l60e transmission. The current pcm has the bdjy bin as the stock bin. I will be using a dual plane intake with a tbi adapter plate. I have a tbi that has been bored out to 46mm that I will be using on it. I haven’t gotten the injectors for it yet though. This will be my first time messing with any ego systems. How difficult will it be to get an engine running decently? I figured I would check to see if anybody has any pointers to get me headed in the right direction or any bins that may be close to what I need.

[dave w]

GM used two different Masks for the 4L60E see links below:

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?336-16168625-PCM-Information-E6

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?303-16197427-PCM-Information-0D

The stock TBI timing table is not optimal for a HT383 type engine. Link to a factory Vortec timing table: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?1233-1998-Vortec-Timing-Table-(Black-Box-Computer)-Open-Closed-Throttle-ONLY!

Video on getting started with TunerPro RT, not exactly for TBI but provides very good overview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLRnRNapRN4

With a good understanding of TunerPro RT: the Wide Band O2 (WBO2) spreadsheet is very helpful for tuning: http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?5381-Wide-Band-O2-(WBO2-Tuning)-Spreadsheet

dave w

[Texoma]

Thanks for the links. Should get me started. I will have a large learning curve on this project for sure.

[Daveo91]

your build sounds very similar to mine: 383, vortec heads, GMPP spread-bore (q-jet) manifold for vortec heads, TBI adapter plate, 46 mm TB, etc in a '91, 3/4 ton 4x4 burb. Only differences are cam and trans: I'm using a stock vortec L-31 cam (and the complete roller valve train that came with it) and my burb has a 4L80e. Tuning has definitely been a challenge for me. Lots of battles and trial and error, but the help on this site is awesome. Lots of knowledge and experience here. Almost four years later and I've finally gotten my tune 80% to where I want it and the truck is running the best it ever has in my eight years of owning it. I still am working on timing. I agree with Dave W - go with the vortec timing table to start out with. You won't be able to use my bin files directly since we have different trans, but perhaps my fuel tables will be of use to you. Let me know.

You may be able to benefit from reading about some of my problems in the last few years by searching threads I started. Make sure you read to the end!

[Texoma]

I will check your post out. The cam in my build is also a roller, ended up purchasing all the components to convert it. Thought about trying to find a vortec motor to rob parts from but there aren’t very many junkyards in my area.

[Texoma]

If you have your fuel tables or your bin files I would like to compare them to what is currently in my vehicle. I have ordered the notated apu1 auto prom and g1 adapter with the chips. I have been playing around with different bins in the tunerpro software trying to familiarize myself with the program. I may upgrade to the 4l80e I. The future, depends on how the 60 hold up after I get this thing running. The 4l60e in mine is pretty fresh. It was rebuilt less than 10k miles ago so I am hoping it lasts a little while.

[Texoma]

I have made some changes to the BDJY bin and updated what I believe are the correct spark tables with the vortec information. I will attach the spark tables that I have modified to this post. I will also be deleting the egr on this build just haven't got around to doing that yet. I did notice that the vortec timing sheet only goes to 4800rpm and the bdjy bin goes to 6000rpm, I didn't modify anything abovr the 4800 rpm on that one 1752117522

[Racprops]

OK Here is my build:

383 Specs:
Engine:


1990 SBC OE Roller Block - 30 over bore 4.030


Not decked (check by machine shop to be straight) but supposed to be .010" piston-to-deck clearance

Machined 400 crank with 5.565" 400 rods


Older KB hyper D-dish pistons (M9890-30) -I couldn't find this piston but they look identical to the KB102-030, so I'm guessing -18cc dish. Set Bought 2/12/2004


The piston top, combustion chamber, and intake and exhaust valve have all been Ceramic thermal barrier coated.


64cc (I think actually 65.3cc) Swirl port heads #14102193 1.94" / 1.5" valves

A felpro gasket that came in a rebuild kit with a 0.045" compressed thickness

Lifters: Rhodes Roller VMax lifters


Cam is from Oregon Camshaft #806 roller cam:
Adv duration: 265/270 @.006 206/213 @ 0.050": lift: 431"/428", LSA: 114, ICL: 110
9.25:1 static CR

Cam timing at .050 Intake open .7BTDC close 33ABDC 45 BBDC Exhaust open 45 BBDC and Closes at -12 ATDC this is by the spec sheet. Below these is a hand written note: -18 1/2 Degree overlap @.050. Cam lobe lift is listed as .275 intake and .285 Exhaust. Lobe center line: Intake 110 and exhaust 118.

Then there is another set of numbers lobe Diameter intake 1.542 over 1.267 and Exhaust1.529/1.244.

Running Rhoads V-Max roller lifters at 10% reduction so at low rpms she will be:
185.4/191.7 Lift 371.7/385.2 lobe sep. 114

1.5 ratio roller-tipped rockers Lift by 1.5 = .413/.428



TPI intake 87 Camaro with 165ECM with MAF

Stock cast iron exhaust manifolds considering headers…

343 rear gears


Rebuilt 4L80e out of a motorhome and a US Gear Dual Range overdrive (was Doug Nash) As a second overdrive - I have calculated a 1,600-1,800 RPM highway cruise @ 75 mph with the 4L80 in OD and the US Gear in OD with the 343 rear gears and18”Wheel and tires match factory tire wheel diameter.


Van will be able to run at 1600RPMs and be doing 70/80MPH.


Many tests have shown me factory V6 and V8s can get very good MPG at 1500 to 1800 RPMs, like 27 to 32 just by driving at those RPMs, speeds are 50 to 60MPH in their top gear.

Before the normal "It will not work" see pictures.


Question is ECM and Tuning,

[dave w]

OK Here is my build:

383 Specs:
Engine:


1990 SBC OE Roller Block - 30 over bore 4.030


Not decked (check by machine shop to be straight) but supposed to be .010" piston-to-deck clearance

Machined 400 crank with 5.565" 400 rods


Older KB hyper D-dish pistons (M9890-30) -I couldn't find this piston but they look identical to the KB102-030, so I'm guessing -18cc dish. Set Bought 2/12/2004


The piston top, combustion chamber, and intake and exhaust valve have all been Ceramic thermal barrier coated.


64cc (I think actually 65.3cc) Swirl port heads #14102193 1.94" / 1.5" valves

A felpro gasket that came in a rebuild kit with a 0.045" compressed thickness

Lifters: Rhodes Roller VMax lifters


Cam is from Oregon Camshaft #806 roller cam:
Adv duration: 265/270 @.006 206/213 @ 0.050": lift: 431"/428", LSA: 114, ICL: 110
9.25:1 static CR

Cam timing at .050 Intake open .7BTDC close 33ABDC 45 BBDC Exhaust open 45 BBDC and Closes at -12 ATDC this is by the spec sheet. Below these is a hand written note: -18 1/2 Degree overlap @.050. Cam lobe lift is listed as .275 intake and .285 Exhaust. Lobe center line: Intake 110 and exhaust 118.

Then there is another set of numbers lobe Diameter intake 1.542 over 1.267 and Exhaust1.529/1.244.

Running Rhoads V-Max roller lifters at 10% reduction so at low rpms she will be:
185.4/191.7 Lift 371.7/385.2 lobe sep. 114

1.5 ratio roller-tipped rockers Lift by 1.5 = .413/.428



TPI intake 87 Camaro with 165ECM with MAF

Stock cast iron exhaust manifolds considering headers…

343 rear gears


Rebuilt 4L80e out of a motorhome and a US Gear Dual Range overdrive (was Doug Nash) As a second overdrive - I have calculated a 1,600-1,800 RPM highway cruise @ 75 mph with the 4L80 in OD and the US Gear in OD with the 343 rear gears and18”Wheel and tires match factory tire wheel diameter.


Van will be able to run at 1600RPMs and be doing 70/80MPH.


Many tests have shown me factory V6 and V8s can get very good MPG at 1500 to 1800 RPMs, like 27 to 32 just by driving at those RPMs, speeds are 50 to 60MPH in their top gear.

Before the normal "It will not work" see pictures.


Question is ECM and Tuning,

Would I be correct in thinking your using a MAF 1227165 ECM?

I'm wondering if you are using an aftermarket 4L80E controller?

dave w

[Racprops]

Would I be correct in thinking your using a MAF 1227165 ECM?

I'm wondering if you are using an aftermarket 4L80E controller?

dave w

I have a thread here about that, I was thinking of running the vans 16168625 but it was made for a 4L60e and I want to run the 4L80e and am seeing it might be better to run a 16197427...

As this is not a hot rod but a working engine that will never see 6 grand, (Barely 5K)I see no need for costly aftermarket PCMs.

And running old hardware means I can get them cheap, even carry a spare just in case.

I would consider a used standalone controller if it can be had around $200.00. Mainly for being able to add paddles or switches to control shifts.

Rich

[dave w]

I have a thread here about that, I was thinking of running the vans 16168625 but it was made for a 4L60e and I want to run the 4L80e and am seeing it might be better to run a 16197427...

As this is not a hot rod but a working engine that will never see 6 grand, (Barely 5K)I see no need for costly aftermarket PCMs.

And running old hardware means I can get them cheap, even carry a spare just in case.

I would consider a used standalone controller if it can be had around $200.00. Mainly for being able to add paddles or switches to control shifts.

Rich

I have experience on a similar project, a MPFI modified 16197427 7.4 liter / 4L80E. Based on the awesome success of that project, I recommend using the 16197427 for your 383 / 4L80E.

dave w

[Racprops]

That will fill the bill.

So can you share the conversion to MPFI??

Rich

[dave w]

Documents converted to .pdf.

Original documents were MS Word and MS Excel.

[Racprops]

Thanks all downloaded.

Rich

[Texoma]

A little update. Picked the engine up today after I had it broken in and ran on the dyno. Dyno sheet is showing 32 degrees initial advance BTDC and final advance @6500 rpm at 36 degrees BTDC and 37 degrees of timing. The engine ended up making 364hp and 460 ft-lb of torque. My next question for those of you experienced with tbi systems is if the tbi that I have would be able to support the horsepower for this engine. I have a gm tbi that has been bored out to 46mm. I'm not sure if I will be able to get enough airflow with it or not. If not I will need to go another route.

Thanks

[tayto]

use a big block throttle body it has 2" bores. vortec heads like 32-34 degrees total timing. i would not run 32 degrees initial. sounds like they didn't play around with timing much, just got your motor broken in and called it a day. post the dyno graph.

[Racprops]

I can find 16197427s reasonable BUT no one can tell me anything about the van or truck they came out of.

They cannot tell me what transmission, engine of even if it was even running when hit.

My old friend who had a junk yard would often say when asked if a part was any good, “Well it was moving when it hit something.” He could then show you to car or truck it came out of. Sadly he passed 7 years ago and wife sold yard.

So looks like I will need to load the basic operating system for a 350V8, for a 4L80e and hopefully for lean Burn Cruse.

Can someone tell me how to do this and what tools will be needed??

And are all operating programs on the EPROM or do we need to make changes to the main ECM??

Best of all worlds will be to have a person load these programs to a eprom or chip as I also have a Moates Memory Adapter With a preloaded MPG custom chip.

Plus the older EPROM chips from my 93 350 4L60e 165 ECM, so how much of engine and transmission programs are in the EPROMs?

Can I just plug them into a 16197427 and just take off??

As this will be a fresh start up of a new engine I hope to have a good ECM to light it up.

Perhaps someone can sell one?

A 427 ECM or loaded EPROM or suggest a good tuner/programmer?

Rich

[Fast355]

A little update. Picked the engine up today after I had it broken in and ran on the dyno. Dyno sheet is showing 32 degrees initial advance BTDC and final advance @6500 rpm at 36 degrees BTDC and 37 degrees of timing. The engine ended up making 364hp and 460 ft-lb of torque. My next question for those of you experienced with tbi systems is if the tbi that I have would be able to support the horsepower for this engine. I have a gm tbi that has been bored out to 46mm. I'm not sure if I will be able to get enough airflow with it or not. If not I will need to go another route.

Thanks

The stock TBI flows 480 cfm, enough to make 330-340 hp. Will be fine with the 46mm. At 46mm they flow just shy of 600 cfm. Do not need a 2" until over 400 hp. What you will need is larger injectors and increased fuel pressure.

[Texoma]

Here are my dyno sheets


17831
17832
17833

[Texoma]

If I did the math correctly I should need roughly 70# per hour from each injector.

[tayto]

i think the 37 degrees is a typing error. i dont think you need that much timing with those heads, you will probably even pickup some more power lowering the total by 2-4 degrees. i thought BB throttle body was 350hp+ but listen to fast355 he has done lots of this stuff. i ran a BB theottle body making 375HP FWIW. I used a Caprice LT1 timing table to start with, but I am sure there are vortec ones available if you look.

you need 97#/hr injectors.

65# 350 injectors @ 29 psi
75# BB injectors @ 22 psi
81# BB injectors @ 19 psi

you will need to use a vacuum referenced FPR.

[Texoma]

If I did the math correctly I should need roughly 70# per hour from each injector.

I figured 17psi of pressure should put me pretty close I think. I believe the stock 5.7 tbi injectors are rated
At 61 pph at 13 psi. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

[tayto]

you would need to run 61# injectors @ 33 psi to support 365fwhp. all my calculations are running injectors at 85% duty cycle. I ran my 68# cop car injectors at 30 psi to support 375fwhp. i probably could have lowered it to 27 or 28 psi. i would try to find a bigger injector. but once you get over 17 psi a VRFPR is required so you don't over fuel at idle.

https://www.dynamicefi.com/TBI_Fueling.php