Need a bin file 92 Camaro

[Drew1992]

350 afr 195 heads,comp cam 268 xfi.

[dave w]

TPI with 5.7 liter, ECM part # 1227730?

dave w

[Drew1992]

TPI with 5.7 liter, ECM part # 1227730?

dave w
Yes sir and I have more specs on cam and heads

[Drew1992]

will be using Moates autoprom and tuner pro

[Drew1992]

Year- 1992
Make- Chevy
Model- Camaro
Transmission- 700R4
Displacement- 350CI
Compression Ratio- 10.5
Comp Cams- 268XFI
Duration @ 50- Int 218/Exh 224
Valve lift- Int:534/Exh:5.30
Lobe Seperation- 113 deg
Intake Centerline- 109 deg
Cylinder Heads- AFR Enforcer
Intake port volume- 195
Intake flow @ .500 lift- 250
Exhaust flow@ .500 lift- 186
Combustion chamber volume- 64cc
Fuel injection brand- Bosh
Flow rating- 32 lbs. @ 43.5 PSI
Thermostat temp- 185 deg
Factory intake manifold- ported
Factory runners- ported
Factory plemuim- ported
Throttle body- factory

[dave w]

Oh, seems like you are asking for a custom modified .bin file?

dave w

[NomakeWan]

They are, yes.

Have you tried PCMforless?

[Drew1992]

Would like to try a free download first.

[dave w]

Would like to try a free download first.

Stock Files can be downloaded here: http://gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?394-1227727-1227730-ECM-Information-8D

Injector flow rate, camshaft profile, and other engine modifications can be edited into a stock .bin file with FREEWARE TunerPro software: https://www.tunerpro.net/downloadApp.htm

TunerPro TPI definition files ($8D) available in the link posted above. TunerPro RT is FREEWARE too, with a suggested $39 donation. TunerPro RT is needed for data logging.

I recommend using Log File Analyzer for Optimal TPI Tuning / Performance, also available in the link posted above.

YouTube.com has several Videos for Tuning TPI with TunerPro RT.

Perhaps a "Tuned Chip" is better than a free download?

dave w

[Drew1992]

Thanks for the info

[Drew1992]

Pcmforless will not do a bin file for 3rd gen , TPIS wants 425 for chip and 375 for bin or there anymore options?

[dave w]

I can do a SWAG (Scientific Wild A$$ Guess) no promises expressed or implied.

Basically a stock chip with the correct injector flow rate without VATS / Emissions.

The SWAG edits will be done using TunerPro.

dave w

[Drew1992]

That will work. Thanks

[dave w]

Modified AUJP attached.

Changes shown below:

dave w

17281

[dave w]

That will work. Thanks

Not like the data log information shown below.
TunerPro RT Getting Started video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLRnRNapRN4 )

dave w

17282

17283

[Drew1992]

I appreciate your time and help. Thanks

[84Elky]

Drew1992 --

Has this engine been running with an existing BIN or are you just beginning? If the latter, the BIN Dave provided is a good starting point. Spark may be a bit high for those heads and CR, but easily adjustable once running. Another thing noticed are the injectors at 32#. Injectors of that size on a modded 350 will likely result in an extremely rich idle as well as rich above-idle. Take a look at this as it explains the issue and provides some recommendations: http://gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?10362-Installing-Bosch-III-Injectors-Without-Voltage-Offsets

[Drew1992]

New engine, not driving yet , bought injectors on advice from Southbay Injectors , I think 28 would be good. This is all new to me.

[Drew1992]

Hey dave w why does the number of cylinders read 205?

[dave w]

Hey dave w why does the number of cylinders read 205?

I'm using the attached .xdf from the $8D gearhead-efi link http://gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Injection/showthread.php?394-1227727-1227730-ECM-Information-8D post #2

Which .xdf file is showing 205?

dave w

[Drew1992]

not that one. lol

[Drew1992]

now it shows 0

[Drew1992]

Hey Dave using the downloads from you bin/xdf cylinder shows 0

[84Elky]

Zero is correct for $8d representation of 8 cyls. Here's the text from the S_AUJP v7 XDF:

VERY IMPORTANT: If changing this value from 8 cylinders (0), you must also change the entry at 0x293=ERROR QUAL 41, Cylinder Select to ensure proper injector firing.
Enter:
0 for 8 Cylinders
192 for 6 Cylinders
128 for 4 Cylinder TBI

[Drew1992]

Thanks

[Drew1992]

Is this where I 0 pw?

[Drew1992]

17359 Is tis whereI zero pw17359

[84Elky]

Is tis whereI zero pwDifficult to read pics. I assume you want to zero the Low PW table. That would be the table in the left pic below.

Voltage offsets (right pic) should not be zeroed. Rather, see the info below if you do not have injector manufacturer's data:
17366

Also, select the option in the switch below that provides the highest and most consistent voltage based on logs:
17367

HTH, Elky

Setting Injector Low PW and Voltage Offset Tables
Low PW
A low PW calibration table value is added to the code-calculated PW when it's less than Xms. It's widely accepted that when installing B3 injectors, all values in the Low PW table should be set = 0.

When this table is zeroed, how then must AFRs/BLMs be adjusted to desired values? Only two ways:
1. Adjust VE values, and/or
2. Where applicable, change the Injector Flow Rate
These are the primary tools available aside from changing fuel pressure.

So lacking low PW information, we ignore the B3 low PW flow characteristics and rely solely on VE values for proper tuning. Therefore, we have essentially taken the position that B3 low PW injector data is not needed and tune accordingly.

Injector Latency (aka: Lag time or Dead Time)
The attribution for this was unfortunately lost: "The purpose of injector voltage offsets is to account for physics. Injector components have mass. It takes time for any mass to accelerate and begin moving. The voltage offset table attempts to account for this and adjust for the fact that the injector parts move slower with lower voltage and faster with higher voltage (but never move instantly)".

Very true! Here’s an example. Without VOs, if the code-calculated PW is 4.0ms, the injectors will go through the following phases during one open/close cycle of delivering fuel (ms values are examples only):
0.0 - 0.3ms: ECM commands injectors to open and move toward fully open
0.3 - 3.9ms: Fully open (3.6ms of fuel delivered)
3.9 - 4.0ms: Fully open to closed (takes much less time to close than to open)

The opening 0.0 to 0.3ms and closing 3.9 to 4.0ms in this example represents 0.4ms of latency/lag/dead time, during which no fuel, or less than the calculated fuel, is delivered. For simplicity, we’ll assume no fuel is delivered during this period. So without VOs, only 3.6ms of fuel is delivered when 4.0ms was calculated (commanded). The VO table attempts to account for this lack of fuel delivery by merely increasing the calculated PW, solely based on voltage at the moment.

Further assume 13.6 volts are being supplied to both the ignition switch and the fuel pump, and assume the VO table contains:
12.8v = 700 micro seconds (Us)
14.4v = 100 Us
Because this table is linearly interpolated by the code and because 13.6 volts is midway between 12.8v and 14.4v, 400Us ([700Us + 100Us] / 2) will be added to the calculated PW of 4.0ms. Said another way:
Actual PW to ECM (4.4ms) = Code-calculated PW (4.0ms) + Latency/Lag/Dead Time (0.4ms VO)

Here, 0.4ms is added to the 4.0ms calculated PW to account for the time during which no fuel will be delivered. The 4.4ms PW is sent to the ECM, the ECM commands the injectors to remain open 4.4ms; and during that time, 4.0ms of fuel is delivered as required.

We can see that with precise VO data, there is theoretical exactness! But even with this exactness, we still don’t know if it will provide the desired AFRs/BLMs -- just that the mechanical characteristics of the injectors have been, “on average”, accounted for, (“on average” explained below).

That's the theoretical world. Let's now look at reality. How do injector manufacturers account for:
- flow at different constant fuel pressures
- flow at different constant voltages
- variances among injector internal masses for various flow rate injectors, and
- possibly fuel temperature affecting flow rate in addition to the above
They test a large lot of similar injectors and come up with an “average latency” at various pressures and voltages. These averages become the VOs at each pressure tested.

But when the pristine injector test world is vacated and the injectors are installed in the real world, how are these VOs used to increase PW? Three ways:
- While cranking: VOs are added to the calculated fuel requirement
- While engine is running: VOs are added to the sum of the calculated momentary fuel requirement and the Speed Density (SD) AE-MAP (required PW)
- As-needed while running: VOs are added to the sum of: (i) SD AE-TPS, (ii) DFCO Stall Saver and (iii) if AC turned on

Remember that VO table values are linearly interpolated; but the VO data in between table voltage values is likely non-linear. That would interject an error, albeit small.

So, what to do when VO data are not available? We could disregard VOs altogether, zero the VO table and adjust above-idle VE values a certain percentage to increase PW across the board. That’s exactly what the VOs are doing based on voltage, rather than using RPM, manifold pressure/load. But doing this is not the solution because at some point more fuel may be required than those adjustments can provide. VE Table limits could be exceeded and the VO values are needed to compensate.

Suggested Approach When Exact VO Data are Not Available
The suggested approach is to begin with estimates of VOs. But the purists will say this is unacceptable; we must have precise VOs to 6 decimal points. Really? What about the inaccurate linear table interpolation? What about tuning with WBo2 sensors using AFR rather than Lambda when using E10 gasoline? AFR will be off 3-4% from actual depending upon the Stoich AFR used for E10. This error is accepted without realizing it, but very precise VOs are required. Really?

We only need to estimate VO values that cover cranking, idle and above idle. Voltages below and above those occurring in those engine states can be disregarded. With a sound electrical system and alternator, there is normally little difference between idle and above-idle voltage. On average, cranking voltages run between 9.5 and 12v, and engine-running voltages between 13.5 and 14.5v. That says there are really only 4 VO table values that are meaningful -- those at 9.6v, 11.2v, 12.8v and 14.4v.

So it’s recommended to begin with some reasonable estimate of the values (perhaps 75% of the factory Multec values, what is believed to be correct manufacturer data but you’re not sure, etc. – just start with something). Then log and review BLMs. Adjust VE as required It’s acknowledged this procedure is far from exact, but so are many other factors far from exact as previously discussed.

To summarize:
- Disregard B3 low PW data, zero the Low PW Table and tune with VE
- Estimate VOs that will be added to calculated PW, knowing that the VOs are not exact
- And even if we have exact injector-matching low PW and VO data, we still have to dial-in AFRs/BLMs over the entire engine operating range with VE values, which is what has to be done with inexact VO data.

Bottom line, desiring to get VOs "absolutely precise" for a street car and even for a Saturday night street drag car is like trying to fine tune an old gear-driven clock using Swiss clock precision.

Finally, one thing that tends to get lost in all this is that PW for any injector is the same (=the amount of time it's to be open). But PW has absolutely nothing to do with how much fuel is supplied during that time. That's a function of the individual injector.

[Drew1992]

Are you using Tunerpro rt

[84Elky]

Are you using Tunerpro rtYes, but apologies. What you are seeing in the pics is from the S_AUJP v7 XDF. Descriptions change among versions of XDF files. That's why the addresses of XDF items should be used and that's that I should have included; because unlike names, addresses don't change since that's where items are located in the Calibration in the BIN file.
0x40B = Injector PW Compensation if PW < 3.90ms
0x3FA =Injector PW Correction .vs. Fuel Pump or Ignition Switch Voltage

Don't know what XDF you are using, but to find the above items:
- In TunerPro, search by address: (Ctrl-F, Then in the rightmost "Find" list, select "At of Containing This Address")
- Enter an address above without the 0x.
- This will present the associated XDF item description
- Double click the presented item and the Scalar, Flag or Table will be displayed

[Drew1992]

Thanks

[Drew1992]

Found it ,how do I zero it

[84Elky]

Found it ,how do I zero itJust replace non-zero values with zeros and save it. However, might save-as so always have bin before and after changes. Applies to any changes you make. And keep written notes that accord with a bin file name or version # as you continue to change things as you tune.

[Drew1992]

Would you be willing to look at the bin file?

[84Elky]

Would you be willing to look at the bin file?Yes, but you need to make a log first, while idling and running at various RPMs for a while, all in Closed Loop. Then post exported log .csv file and bin.

[Drew1992]

Thanks

[Drew1992]

I've got steering column issue , when its fixed I'll get back with you . Thanks

[Drew1992]

Can't get out of driveway to get run log. Have fixed several vacuum leaks , new fuel pump , filter and adjustable fuel reg. Car runs like crap

[84Elky]

Can't get out of driveway to get run log. Have fixed several vacuum leaks , new fuel pump , filter and adjustable fuel reg. Car runs like crapDrew ---

If something mentioned here you already know, apologies. Just trying to be thorough.

Many issues, few of which can be determined by looking at a xdl log in TPro. This is the reason a .csv file MUST ALWAYS be exported when chasing problems like yours: Acquisition>Export Log File (or use Ctrl-E). Then select xdl file to export, click Export and name the .csv file with the same name as the .xdl so the association can be maintained. Then save as a .xlsx so panes can be frozen. Can now see what's really happening.

I've attached your .xlsx with the relevant columns at the left.

1) Knock Sensor (KS) Error: "Code 43- ESC Failure" in the log file
The ECM is not seeing any KS voltage (Err 43A). So: a) the sensor is not connected, b) it's faulty, or c) the connection is not solid to ECM Pin 9. Should see about 2.45v with key on/engine off. Must be fixed before anything else.
Without doing a voltage check, must always have some knocks when engine starts due to vibration. If =0, =KS problem. You have 0.

2) INT
The INT is solid at 128 while running. Likely due to KS error.

3) PW
PW is pig rich. This is typical with such large injectors (32#) on a 350. I'd reduce VE in the 0-1000 RPM area at every MAP by approx 30% to see if PW can be brought down to about 2.5ms or so at idle. Note also that commanded idle is 950, but it's idling at 650-700 and IAC is nearly wide open gasping for air due to all the fuel. Surprised you don't need a gas mask while this thing is idling. With your injectors, will need to idle with BLM at 138-140 or so. Yea that's lean, but won't hurt a thing. Will keep your eyes from burning.

4) Knock Retard Degrees (KRD)
Due to the KS issue, have KRD, sometimes at the max. Thus, have way too little spark to properly run, even at idle.

5) Cylinder Volume
A nit, but should be 713 for a 350, not 717.5 unless bored.

HTH, Elky.

[Drew1992]

Thanks I'll work on it this weekend

[Drew1992]

Car started life as a 92 Camaro Z-28 305 (7730 ecm) 5.0 knock sensor , I've swapped to a 355 using same ecm new chip and 5.7 knock sensor. What knock senor should I use. DRK blue wire going to knock senor has 11.6 volts with key on. Checking pin 9 next

[84Elky]

5.7 knock sensor is correct and should have about 3900 ohms resistance (sensor to block).

[Drew1992]

Will check ohms tomorrow , trying to figure out pin 9. Thanks for your help

[84Elky]

The wire from the sensor should be directly connected to Pin F9 at the ECM

[stew86MCSS396]

Car started life as a 92 Camaro Z-28 305 (7730 ecm) 5.0 knock sensor , I've swapped to a 355 using same ecm new chip and 5.7 knock sensor. What knock senor should I use. DRK blue wire going to knock senor has 11.6 volts with key on. Checking pin 9 next
Ive dealt w this exact issue on a 90 vette, that wire should be sensor volts ~5v and not battery volts. While under the car, I saw the splice on the knock sensor wire and another wire near the starter. It was a drk grn wire covered w oily hands that made PO splice it that way. I hope it's a easy fix and good luck!!!

Oh I should mention that this did not cause any starting issues. Our engines are similarly built and I was able to start it and drive it. The KR made it feel seriously under powered though.

[Drew1992]

I'm absolutely green at tuning , some mechanical skill and this car is kicking my but. The only one that knows TPI is 3 hrs away and booked up. Made VE changes now graph looks terrible , I'll try to send the bin file

[84Elky]

I'm absolutely green at tuning , some mechanical skill and this car is kicking my but. The only one that knows TPI is 3 hrs away and booked up. Made VE changes now graph looks terrible , I'll try to send the bin fileNew VE graph is fine for now. Don't worry about it. Given where you are, you have to use the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle and one thing at a time.

Nothing should be done until you get the o2 sensor situation resolved. Must have knocks. With key on/engine off and logging, try lightly tapping on block with hammer. If no knocks recorded, fix it and do nothing else until get knocks. Then can move on to other things.

But comparing the latest bin with that in your prior post, only 1 byte changed which is cylinder volume to 713. But it you are truly 355ci, it should be 727 which TPro will display as 726.46. There are no VE changes. But for now, matters not because KS needs to be fixed first.

[Drew1992]

Still trying to get .csv file to .xlsx . Keeps saying invalid file when I try to upload

[Drew1992]

Some info on my injectors 280-155-831